1/3 inch off front pinch hieght, by ironing crown into brim

[3thoubucks]

I thought I was finishing the mods to my new size 57 (one size big) Regular Fed, last night, (Two inch turn, folded sweat, tightened ribbon, pleated right front dent, hat sanded thinner, pork pie lines..) and thought I should have a perfect indy hat in my hands. Everything looking good, but it just looked too tall. I know the Raiders bash was deep, and figured the Fed's 5 3/4 crown height was necessary, But the hat just looked too tall. I checked Fedora's crown height post, with this great picture with the rulers. 4 1/4 front pinch!?! ! - That is completely insane. If Ford is wearing a 7 1/4 it's the same size as my 57. - With a front pinch height of 4 1/2 inches on my hat, going any shorter just got ugly, and my crown really didn't want to go there. I tried hot glueing it there a couple times, eventually tearing a hole in the hat. I had a kind of nervous breakdown. I really can't take the frustration of this hat quest anymore, because there are other things I want to do, that I know I can do. But I don't know if I'll ever solve the hat riddle. .. I couldn't sleep, and wondered if I'd say goodbye here or just fade away quietly. ...Harrison Ford's head must exist in some paralell universe where the laws of physics don't aply. ---- Then I thought of ironing the front of the crown into brim. Today I tried it and it works. So it's a third inch at the front and fades thinner as it goes back at the base of the crown. The top bash is still deep. ........This maybe answers a few other riddles. In order to do it, you have to take out the sweat. No one was going to redo the hundred stiches that originally sewed in the Raiders sweat, and that explains what I take to be big ugly stitches on the side of the ribbon. They might hold the sweat band in. I'd say these stitches have to be sweat soaked to pick up all that dirt. Unless the stitches went right though the sweat, sweat couldn't get to them. ...Here's another riddle solved? The brims "dimensional cut". I pick up 1/3 inch of brim length in front- Was there a dimensional cut, or just this ironing? ....A riddle that popped up for me recently- I always thought I saw a bump that should be the little white sweat band bow showing though on the Raiders ribbon about 2/3 inch off center at the back of the hat. With a 2 inch turn, it shouldn't be there- unless the sweat was removed and reinstalled in a different place . And lastly, It seems the porkpie lines on the Raiders hat angle downward from the back. This explains why. First, you can see the whiteish line of the old brim to crown transition point- Some atractive back bulge, despite this trick... Crude sweat band atatchment stitches? Can't deny it's a very deep bash Pork pie line seems high in back Little white bow bump? ......... 4 1/4 front pinch?! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!! As you can see in the first pic, there is a hole in my hat. I guess I have to buy a new one, before I show you detailed results. The front and back of our hats are tapered, using up crown ironing the front gave me a smaller opening, so I don't need to fold the sweat. I've sized it down to a 56. ... Deborah Nadoolman described the hat "The crown was a little bit too high" If it was too high did she fix it? .

[Indiana G]

i never get tired of reading about your quest for THE hat $3M. i honestly do not think that debbie n. went to all the trouble you have gone through to get that look but i can understand how crazy a tried and true gearhead can get in trying to find this holy grail of hats......just ask fedora about me and the crazy specs i asked for on my AB rabbit....i asked him to go to tunisia and build my hat there and then pour a bottle of harrison ford's sweat on it....not really, but in hindsight, my requests probably drove him nuts

not only have i bugged poor steve, i've also e-mailed baron hats because they claim to be able to make your 'dream hat'. i submitted my specs to them and they said that they would get back to me within 48 hours....which they did not. i have also sent my specs to our local 'smithbilt hat co.' here in calgary and i have yet to hear from them as well. i guess distressing a hat gets hatters a little on edge because they do not want to ruin the hat if they make a minor error. thats understandable.

i want to thank you and your postings though because its totally going to help me bash the fed thats coming in. keep up the great work $3M!

[Marc]

In order to do it, you have to take out the sweat. No one was going to redo the hundred stiches that originally sewed in the Raiders sweat, and that explains what I take to be big ugly stitches on the side of the ribbon. They might hold the sweat band in. I'd say these stitches have to be sweat soaked to pick up all that dirt.

Hundred stitches??? - Come on, that's just a bit far off. On a reg. Federation it's not even 50 and neither so on the vintage HJs I've seen to date.

The stitches could be sweat soaked easily, just by taking out the liner.

Good to see, that you're dropping the idea with the hat being too big though.

Regards,

Marc

[3thoubucks]

69 stitches in my 58 Reg Fed, plus 12 more that overlap. 81 total. How could the stitches get sweat soaked if there was a leather sweat between them and Indy's head? ... The two inch turn is what makes 3 sizes too big un needed. It turns the crown into a bulb.

[Captain Ron Solo]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is all this ironing talk? What is the purpose, and how is it done?

JKL
Ron

[3thoubucks]

Ron. I'm ironing the brim to crown transition in the front of the hat, forcing 1/3 inch of the crown to become brim, but only in front. I'm doing it because my crown is too high in front. I wet the area and use very low heat. Some will say it's an insane desperate attempt to get a Raiders hat out of a Federation. Others (me) will say it's maybe the hidden key to the Raiders hat. :

[Fedora]

1/4 front pinch?! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!

If you examine the ruler pic, the ribbon is 1 1/2 inches. So, either the hat is as the ruler shows, or the ribbon is not 1 1/2 inches. You can't have it both ways. The hat is shown as being 5 inches tall by that same pic. The ruler shows the ribbon being 1 1/2 inches, front and back. Perhaps the hat shown had the front and back lower than other scenes? I bet this one here had a really deep crease in the top of the hat. It did vary within that film. If you look at the hat pictured, from the front, I bet you would see a deeper than normal crease, or bash. Like it or not, the Raiders fedora was not as tall as we have caricatured it over the years, and I am as guilty as the next guy. I think David's studies in dimensions is dead on. If you don't like what you see, I think we must question our own perceptions. I think OUR perceptions are invalid, until you put a ruler to it. Just my 2 cents. Fedora

[3thoubucks]

Hey Fedora, we could probably determine if the hat could possibly be a 7 1/4, or has to be smaller. If your guy had placed a ruler front to back, at the base, I estimate the length would be about 7 3/4. I measured my hats front to back crown length at the base with my hat on my head with a big calipers, and got 8 1/8. My hat is a 7 1/4 (actually smaller now that I've ironed it), so my head is just longer than Ford's, or his hat is smaller than 7 1/4. If your guy could get a side to side width as well, we could probably say if it could have been a 7 1/4? Even if it turns out to be a 7 1/4, the ratio of lenth to width would be very interesting.

[Fedora]

I agree 3M$. Perhaps David with do some studies on this for us. He blew me out of the water with his numerous illustrations, and all of them seem to correlate with one another. Since his is a surveyor, I sure trust his math. I first noticed my crowns were too tall after I first started making hats and folks would post their pics of them wearing the hats. I would think, good gosh, the hat looks too tall be match Ford's!! But, I had bought into the taller crown theory for years, and it was hard for me to accept that is was indeed shorter. And the costumer had told us all, it was a tall crown hat. But, this was at a time when 4 inch crowns were prevalent, in dress hats. So her statement was relative. Remember, back in the early 20th century there were many dress hats with 5 3/4 to 6 inch crowns, and by the 60's you got these short crowned dress hats. In 1980 or 81, a 5 inch tall hat was indeed taller than what was in style. Fedora

[Abner1925]

How could the stitches get sweat soaked if there was a leather sweat between them and Indy's head?

The same way sweat stains appear on the felt of the Cairo hat... it bleeds through, under, and around anything if it's hot enough.

[Fedora]

Yeah, I have noticed the tacks that hold the ribbon in place create a path of least resistance when you sweat heavily in a hat. The sweat can enter where the reeding tape is sewn onto the leather. Since stitches pass through the reeding tape to the outside of the hat, this is a good path to the outside. Fedora