Club Obi Wan

I have seen many pictures here of goat jackets and some of them actually looked really good. In the past there where also some good looking lambtouch jacket arround. Since ITG sold her on ebay this kind of leather came back to my mind.

I have had a dark brown lamb, do have a very nice feeling pre-cow right know. I love how the predistressed cowhide feels, but I think the standard cow would be way different.
I've had a goatskin Raiders in my hands, but actually didn't liked the texture of the leather.

Soo, back to what I was going to ask: what are the differences of the lambtouch to the goat and -I know, I'm always asking for it- does someone of you have some good pictures of the lambtouch?

HUGE difference. The goat is a much heavier,thicker leather. Imagine cowskin, shaved down really thin, and that is what lambtouch is like. That's the best way I can describe it. It's a nice leather, but you can tell right away that it won't hold up to much abuse. Personally, I think the Wested lamb is stronger,and possibly even heavier than the lambtouch, and I've seen and held both.

TR

I've owned both in Raiders jackets, and the lambtouch cowhide is definitely stronger than the lambskin, but just about the same weight and drape.

Goatskin, on the other hand, is stronger than lambskin OR lamtouch cowhide, but has more of a grain.

Regards! Michaelson

I remember speaking to Peter one time about the two hides, I was trying to find out which to go with. We discussed the lambtouch at one point and he said "definitely not" as far as durability in the field was concerned. He even steered me more towards the lamb than the lambtouch. Ultimately we decided upon goat, but it seemed to me that he felt that even the lambskin itself was a bit stronger than the lambtouch. I've seen two different lambtouch jackets, and though one seemed thicker than the other, both seemed pretty 'tender' to me as far as leather goes. I think maybe we have two different views of 'durable'. The surface of the lamb may scuff and scratch easier, but the skin itself seems stronger and thicker than the lambtouch, which seems like it would tear much easier if snagged on branches or rocks or ??

What do you think, Michaelson, does that help explain it?? The lambtouch is really a unique skin, and quite wierd to describe, as it really isn't like anything else.

TR

He still carries it in black, and sells quite a lot of it, from what I've been told, but phased the brown out when goatskin came on the scene, as it was duplicating the need that the lambtouch cowhide had filled....that being tougher than lambskin, but with the same drape as lambskin. Goatskin does both, so it there was no further need for lambtouch to be taking up space in the stock room.

Like I said, I've OWNED both, and the lambtouch cowhide is still my personal favorite, and will always choose it over lambskin any day when ever I have the chance. That's just stating my personal experience with owning and wearing jackets made from both materials. Thin or thick, cowhide is inherently stronger than lambskin.

Goatskin STILL blows it away in a durability test, but then it will with most any cowhide. Regardless of the reasons given, YOU chose the best hide over all...and that was goatskin. That's what I currently own, and it's just getting softer with wear.

Regards! Michaelson

i have a goat wested, and lambskin tabbards for my anakin costume. The goat is a bit rougher, in comparison to the lamb which is just smooth. But its not really rough, just in comparison to lamb it is. Bigger grain is the reason for that.

It's all dependent of batch to batch. My Wested goatskin is as smooth as a baby's, uh, ..... reputation.

Regards! Michaelson

So how different can the grain of goatskins be? I saw pagey's (don't ban me for mention, please) jacket and its grain looks compleatly different to lambskin and not nearly as smooth. This was the only thing which really bothers me on goat. If there is way of getting really smoth grained goatskin I would go for it emidiatly

It's up to the jacket company to pick and choose hides as they come in. I know that Wested and Gibson and Barnes have rejected entire shipments of hides due to heavy grains or flaws. All one can do is request that a fine grained hide be picked for your jacket before it's made.

For some it's definitely an issue.

Speaking for myself, a little grain gives the jacket more character, and makes it look less like vinyl or plastic with super fine grain.

Regards! Michaelson

Have someone on this board ever posted a picture with a goat of fine grain which is simmiliar to lambskin?

The leather tanning method used also plays a big part in the texture of the leather. Mark seven posted the following in the “LC Jacket - How certain are we?” thread:

mark seven wrote:Sorry this a bit late but this has been bugging me-I thought my memory had been playing tricks on me,but I was browsing through the old threads and found Peter's explaination of why the LC jacket has it's distinctive appearance(and why I remembered Whale-oil ),Peter says............... "In the good old days when men were men and only shaved on saturday nights before hitting the town,there was a tannery at Todmorden in Yorkshire,England called turn leathers.The leather they produced was lambskin,not the soft supple skin of today but the thick stuff that could almost stand by itself in the corner. The tanning was done in giant wooden vats and the skin pegged out to dry,not modern chemicals but oil from Whales(now banned). This tannery used to contract tan the english lamb/sheep skins supplied by us and it was this leather used in ALL of the Indy films,with the exception of a few TOD's we did not make. Sadly turn leathers went to the wall and current tanners only have the modern machinary and systems designed to produce super fine skins,so we struggle to get back that look. Cheers,Peter"

Modern chrome tanned hides (which I assume Peter mostly uses) are very soft and pliable and hold up extremely well overtime. It seems to me that the natural texture of the hide is less evident (at least at first) with these types of tanning methods. Traditionally tanned hides (such as vegetable) seem to come out in a more raw natural state. The hides are usually initially more on the stiff side. The natural grain of the hide is somewhat more evident. With wear though, both types of leather gain character and they end up looking similar.

I recently purchased two goatskin Expeditions from G&B and they couldn’t be more different from each other. One is made from vegetable tanned goatskin and one is made from chrome tanned goatskin. The veg (which is just now breaking in) was initially much stiffer and grainier than the chrome tanned hide. This specific chrome goatskin (I went in there and picked the hide) is so soft that it really feels like fashion leather. There’s also hardly any grain at all, which is strange for goatskin (where a pebbly grain is naturally present).

I’ll also point out that you don’t get your choice of leather tanning methods for your skins (Freaks please refrain from calling Wested, G&B’s, or US Wings with requests for specific tanning methods for your leather). Each jacket manufacturer gets the leather that suits their customer base the best. Trust me, you really wouldn’t want a vegetable tanned horsehide Wested for instance (They presumably use a chrome tanned horsehide). Cheers

This story about the old tannery is really exciting, I nearly could see the tanners working in the factory when reading it
He guys, I just realized it: I can't buy myself another Indy jacket without going directly to wested before!
Do you know if there is a possibility choose on your own at wested which hide they should take for your jacket?

That's one for Peter to answer. Give him a call.

Regards! Michaelson

In tannery terms Hide is the name for Cowskin or Horseskin as against sheepskin, lambskin known as nappa and goatskin which is only know as goatskin.
Picking your own hide would be Ok a one hide makes a jacket generally but with sheeps or goat you need to pick and match 6 or 7 skins.
So a lambskin ROLA jacket has two sheep in the front, two in the back and one on each sleeve which generally makes it more exspensive.
Lesson over
Cheers
Peter

Wow! I knew there were several hides involved on a Raiders jacket, but not THAT many!!

Learned something new today!! Is it time to go home yet?

HIGH regards! Michaelson

PETER wrote:In tannery terms Hide is the name for Cowskin or Horseskin as against sheepskin, lambskin known as nappa and goatskin which is only know as goatskin.

Everybody talks about nappa and suede here, nothing about cow, horse, lamb or goat.

Huh? This from the master of the file/website search?

Regards! Michaelson

???

I just said what all the Finnish leather jacket advertisements say and what people talk about when discussing leather jackets. "Here" meaning Finland.

AHHHhhh, Now THAT makes more sense. You didn't SAY Finland in your post!

Regards! Michaelson

95% of the time I speak about the concept of place Here I mean the physical location where I currently am.

You're one of the few that does it, VP, so you'll have to excuse my confusion.

In the context of writing on the internet, 9 times out of 10, folks are referring to the SITE they're writing on at the time, rather than the physical location they're sitting while writing.

Regards! Michaelson

@PETER: thank you for your reply. I'm looking forward to go to England next summer to visit the World Scouts Jamboree anyway and your company is of course a place I'd love to visite! I would we very happy to choose the hides for my future jacket at your shop, especcialy since I just can't decide for which leather I will go for without feeling it with my fingers.
I'm going to England at the beginning of August, is that a good time to meet you at your shop?

BreinederIndy wrote: Since ITG sold her on ebay this kind of leather came back to my mind.

I still have it and it's for sale.

@ITG: thank your for letting me know, but unfortunaly my size is 40. Why do you want to sell it anyway? It looked nice in the pictures

It's too big on me. It'd make a great winter jacket...it's heavier than any of my Westeds, but that may be partly because it's also bigger.