Club Obi Wan

Several months ago I bought a size 40 wested indy in the regular fit and after wearing it awhile (and loosing a little weight) I decided I am not sold on the fit anymore. It is just a little to loose and not as flattering for my slender frame as it could be. So I want to transfer it to winter wear when I need to add layers underneath and grab a new wested in a size 38. But I am having trouble deciding between fits, I perfer a trimmer "hero" cut but I don't want it to fit like my wet suit either. Can anyone provide me with the major fit differences with the 2 cuts(80's and reg) and if at all possible provide a chest measurement of a size 38 in both cuts as well? Would the 80's/chrisking/919 work or the regular fit be just fine? I really want to get this right this time so I would appreciate any help you guys can provide..............thanks

My specs
chest 38.25
waist 31
athletic frame(slim and trim)

By the sounds of it the 80s fit is what you are after. Thats more of a military cut and will make it all look much trimmer and more fitted.

Ken

BTW I heard that if you order the 80s fit the yoke seam will be automatically a bit higher (like on the original jacket). Is that the case?

Is the 80's fit going to throw up the cost by $1,000 or is it free/cheap?

In Christ,
Shane

Yeah - it makes sense that it wouldn't be an extra charge; they don't have to come up with a new pattern really, they have it already, they just have to use that one instead. Just checking. Thanks, Tone!

In Christ,
Shane

Anyone can asnwer this positively?
Is it 100% certain that the film jacket was an 80s fit?
Cause e.g. when Ford steps into the light in the temple scene (before he gets the idol) the jacket looks loose (like my regular fit jacket) and not fit "military cut". Same case when the old man translates the manuscript on the headpiece.

And throughout all the movie the jacket isn't fit in Ford's shoulders.

What do you guys think?

IndyMcFly wrote:Is the 80's fit going to throw up the cost by $1,000 or is it free/cheap?

Almost all of the basic mods are free, just the über-accurate mods, gussets and extra inside pocket cost more.

You look like a 1950's biker teen in that first one - it's a good look on you.

Yeah, I don't see a lot of difference in that 80's fit, so I think when I get mine I'll just do it regular style, and not this way. Perhaps if I get a ToD jacket later on... but not yet.

Thanks for the pics too, Tone!

Oh and VP - thanks for the clarification. That makes it all much simpler. Now I won't have as many questions to ask.

In Christ,
Shane

Hey Indiana_Tone,

I like the color of the jacket in the photo you posted.
Is it authentic or dark lamb?

I've had both a 40R & a 40R with the 80's fit. The biggest difference was that the 80's fit was much slimmer in the waist. It was a tad snugger all over, but mostly in the waist. For someone who has a 40" chest & a 30-31" waist, the 80's fit was much better for me. The standard cut was very bell-shaped, i.e., too much extra jacket, around the waist even with the straps pulled all the way! So the phrase 'athletic cut' fit the 80's fit very well -- if you have a slim/athletic build, then this may be the way for you to go...

~Jace

Thanks,
Thats the info I am looking for. That is my problem with my sz 40. Way to much in the waist, even with the straps tightened all the way...................

Fantastic summary Tone, the pics are GREAT as usual. I'm curious to know why, in your opinion, the jacket rides down on Ford's shoulders making the jacket look "looser"? That's a look I would love to have in my next Wested, whenever it will be.

PS that shirt in the second picture looks a NH shirt!

I don't think that the "80's fit" has anything to do with the back yoke being raised ''1 inch higher. As mentioned above, it was just a tighter forming fit, in general, as far as I know of.

What I have always thought, was that the 1'' inch higher yoke was the design for the Raiders jacket version only (not necessarily the case for Temple and Last Crusade jackets). It comes standard on the Gibson-Barnes jacket, but I'm not sure if it comes standard for a Wested Raiders style jacket or not. In my opinion, it "should" be standard for the Wested Raiders jacket version in order for it to be "screen-accurate," unless a customer wishes for it to not be so....Just my opinion.

There are a lot of things that should be standard on Wested Raiders jacket IMO and are not-black rectangular sliders,smaller pockets,smaller collar,higher yoke,gussets..it's a shame you have to ask for these as extras on a jacket being sold as THE Raiders jacket.

What kind of extras would you have to ask for in order to get a very (dare I say "uber") accurate jacket? Btw were can you get the black rectangular sliders?


IC

Hmm I believe there is currently no "uber" accurate jacket out there?
But there are many raiders of the lost jacket

Wested offers the black rectangular sliders. Just take a look at the wested orders form. You can choose between Anodised Black Rectangular & Antique Brass D Rings. It doesn't cost more. It's included in the price of the jacket.

Greets

orb

Sorry 'extras' was the wrong word ,Yes I know that they are available on a Wested if you ask,what I meant was, on a jacket being sold as a 'Raiders' jacket(not TOD or LC)they SHOULD be standard as they were actually used on the film jackets- not D rings.We shouldn't have to ask for them.As for collar/pocket size,on the new Wested jackets I've seen the pockets look too big IMO and the collars seem to be getting bigger and bigger-closer to Elvis' come back special than Raiders-the main reason I went for a flight suits.Don't want to start another FS vs Wested debate-both are great jackets -this is only my personal taste.

CairoIndy wrote:Yes I know that they are available,I'm just saying that on a jacket being sold as a 'Raiders' jacket(not TOD or LC)they should be standard as they were used on the film jackets not D rings-we shouldn't have to ask for them,that's what I meant.

I think you're right about the sliders, they probably could be standard on the raiders jackets. However, I know that Peter has had trouble sourcing them so may be keeping them to special requests. (I'm not sure they even have any in stock right now, they didn't last time I was there a couple of weeks ago).

The Eighties fit thing came about because the standard fit was designed to encompass a wider variety of body shapes, the eighties is not very forgiving for the "huskier' customer. It's better to have that as the standard and the slimmer eighties as a request.

Except for the color correcting part.

this is probobly a stupid question but what exactly are 'gussets'?

Small pieces of leather underneath your arms that are supposed to give more room for movement.

The best way to explain this "80`s" cut, to me, was said here long ago in a post by someone somewhere.....
The jacket was made slimmer and closer to the body when it was designed. As more and more poeple wanted it, they would get it and complain about the fit..but this was more because, in the late "80`s" and maybe early "90`s" most jackets were made to fit in the US like the Lettermen`s jackets...U know the ones...the football players wore with the big ol` school letters on the front and back. with white leather sleeves....don`t pretend you don`t remember! Well, most jackets have this bulky rotund fit and most people prefer comfort over style.
Most of you guys all have a sense of style ( or else you wouldn`t be wearing Indygear,huh) so we can see the quality of a niceky fitted jacket as opposed to something overbearing. It was explained much easier than that but this is the best I can remember.

And indy's jacket in raiders has these gussets?

Toldog07 wrote:And indy's jacket in raiders has these gussets?

Some of the stunt jackets have gussets. The one Ford wears during the fight with the mechanic also appears to have at least single piece gussets. So some may do and some don't.

Indiana_Tone wrote: Yes, that is a Noel Howard shirt. One piece of gear that is spot on Indy without modifications.

I didn't know you bought one pal, fantastic, again I tell you it looks really fantastic on you! Whatever people can say... IMO, Noel Howard shirt is THE shirt!

VP wrote:Except for the color correcting part.

I'm afraid you're wrong here VP but let's not start another colour debate, there are already too many of them. I already showed picture of my NH shirt looking stone and others where it looked khaki... changing in different light conditions. Plus, if you trust NH, he said that he never changed the colour in all the three films. In all the three films you see all the kind of colours (from stone to khaki) and that's how the NH shirt actually reacts to light conditions/different camera time exposition.

I love color debates.

In this case I give you a hint. Take LC and look at the scene in Iskenderun when Sallah is driving and Indy sits next to him (and the father sitting behind)... the colour of that shirt in that scene look STONE... wow, didn't most of us think that in LC it was khaki? Well it just looks stone like in Raiders... what's the matter then? I leave the answer to someone else by now.

Ow anyway, I apologize for hi-jacking. If anyone opens a debate about shirts colour I'll be there for sure

Thanks for all the great info guys. I perfer the more fitted look and it seems that the 80's fit is the way to go. I just hope I can figure out which leather I should go for, lamb or goat? But thats another discussion already well covered here...........................

1stsargent wrote:Thanks for all the great info guys. I perfer the more fitted look and it seems that the 80's fit is the way to go. I just hope I can figure out which leather I should go for, lamb or goat? But thats another discussion already well covered here...........................

Leather? Lamb of course


80's cut

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/e ... G_2208.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y157/e ... G_1744.jpg

erri, in that first pic. How much is your straps pulled?

I was thinking of the lamb but I want a leather that is tuff. I have read that the lamb can sometimes be weak. I am pretty "adventureous" while wearing my leather jackets and need a leather that will last. Thats why the goat is number 1 right now. But it may change.......thanks

ps. Your jacket looks good. Thats the fit I am looking for.

BendingOak wrote:erri, in that first pic. How much is your straps pulled?

Honestly I can't remember Oak but now I keep them quite loose because some time ago I noticed that the straps being tight were causing permanent (and annoying) marks on the back panel... anyway when I pull them tight, this is the effect:

1stsargent wrote:I was thinking of the lamb but I want a leather that is tuff. I have read that the lamb can sometimes be weak. I am pretty "adventureous" while wearing my leather jackets and need a leather that will last. Thats why the goat is number 1 right now. But it may change.......thanks

ps. Your jacket looks good. Thats the fit I am looking for.

I don't know how much adventurous you are but I think lamb can resist pretty well and, what is more important, it distresses naturally. With the goat you have to distress it by yourself. It's a matter of choices

erri_wan wrote:

VP wrote:Except for the color correcting part.

I'm afraid you're wrong here VP

Don't be so serious all the time, I only use smilies when I try to make sure that people understand that I'm joking.

Ok sorry

I take it traveling, motorcycling, even light hiking and outdoor trips. I had a Aero Leather A-2 that I took on numerous trips and servived alot of everyday wear, basicaly it was a tank. But I have had supposedly good leathers wear thin and tear at the shoulders from wearing a backpack on one trip through Alaska and canada. I live a pretty active life and need a leather that will keep up with that basicly. From reading past posts and talking to other people that bought wested lamb and other lamb jackets that they are good but may not hold up to the occasional rough wear.
thanks

Tone,

That's cool about the 80's fit automatically giving you the 1'' inch higher back panel/yoke when someone orders a Raiders jacket. However, I suppose I am wondering about a few things here. Does the back panel have anything to do with making it a tighter fit in/around the shoulder areas (as does the 80's cut normally produces)?

To me, it seems as if Wested "should" make the panel panel 1'' inch higher as standard when someone orders a STANDARD Raiders jacket (unless they specifically state that they do not want that) because w/out that, it wouldn't be a screen-accurate Raiders jacket.

Suppose I am a new member, for example, and don't know the correct questions/options in choosing what is screen accurate and what is not when buying from Wested. I order a basic Raiders style jacket, but I didn't order the back panel being raised 1'' inch obviously because of 1.) either not knowing about it or 2.) I just assumed that it would be there....seeing how it is a "Raiders" jacket afterall. Even though it may not a big deal to most folks, but to a detailed minded freak like myself, I'll probably end up having to turn round' sell it, then go through the whole buying process all over again, ect. I had to do it on a few jackets myself until I finally "got it right," but I either didn't know about it or forgot to ask about it at the time. One of the cool things about the G&B jacket is that the back panel/yoke comes 1'' inch higher as standard on every Raiders jacket regardless of your jacket size.

Also, suppose I am a big guy who needs a big jacket. If I cannot fit well into the 80's cut, do I then sacrifice screen accuracy for a standard cut, especially if I'm new and I don't know what to ask what is accurate and what is not? It doesn't seem right that Wested just doesn't makes ALL of their Raiders version jackets as standard when it comes to the back panel being raised 1'' inch (unless someone specifically asks for it not to be so on their specific jacket).

That was just my opinion, but as far as the 80's fit automatically giving you 1'' inch higher for the back panel/yoke right off-the-batt, there must be some kinda effect in giving you a tighter/closer fit, but what would that be?

So, could someone tell me about the 1" shorter joke? I have to start making a list of customizations for the day I'll visit the Little Wested house

Indiana_Tone wrote:
"Waaah, my pleats stay open.........waaaah; I can't wear a full wool sweater under it in the winter; It's too snug; it feels like a costume jacket; I still don't look like Indy; I can't wear it to a formal dinner; It looks weird when I zip it up; the front rides up; waaaaaah.........My sleeves are too short; my sleeves are too long; the back panel flares out too far; the back panel doesn't flare out enough; the barrel cuffs look weird on me,"etc. (Don't get mad, people, I'm one of the whiners in that list, too.)

...me too

Indiana_Tone wrote:Captain D, I agree with you on the reasons above about ordering the Raiders model jacket from Wested; that it should be an 80s cut, with the smaller pockets, 1" shorter yoke, and the rectangular sliders by default and that it would need to be a 'custom' order to remove those features instead.

Just to throw something else out there. I don't need smaller pockets. The ones Wested puts on the jackets look like small, screen accurate ones on me. If the pockets were any smaller, I wouldn't even be able to get my hands in them. What good are pockets, if you can't use them?

I wear the jacket a lot, mostly when I am not dressing as Indy. What good would a jacket be, if you can't use it. Screen accurate sizes for one person, may not be screen accurate sized for someone else.

I'll bet that most of the guys buying the wested indy jackets don't read this forum and don't sit and watch the movies frame by frame looking for screen accurate jacket. They don't care or really have the time to spend to see if the pockets are right or if the back panels match. All they want is a comfortable and wearable "indy" jacket, not a stitch for stitch replica.
I can't speak for Wested leather, but their money is most likely made making the standard version and is alot less trouble to do so aswell.

I'll give you an example, I collect WW2 A-2's and own a few replicas too. So I may not be an authority on them but I do know some basics on what helps makes up a true replica ww2 a-2. But nearly all the A-2's I see all differe greatly in cut and specs from original A-2's. Some people will come up to me with there patched up jacket and tell me that they are wearing a accurate ww2 replica jacket and when I see the blousy cut and the bad pattern I just want to laugh. But that wasn't the point, the point was they wanted what the think a true A-2 is that fit comfortablely and they liked.

Most people would not like to wear original spec a-2's because of the very trim fit and 40's cut. They were made to fill a specific function at a specific time and place, and like the original Raidiers Jackets that may not make them very practical for everybody to wear on an everyday basis.

Indiana_Tone wrote:I want it to be a match but I also want it to hold up when I take it scuba diving.

I would love to see you scuba diving in your Wested. I bet you are using your gas mask bag to hold your oxygen tank.

I have a waist size of 48" and would like something that looks just like the film version!

Ain't that the dang truth!

If I could have the rectangular sliders but in more of a D-Ring appearance that would be cool.

That's exactly what I got on my jacket was D-ring looking rectangular sliders. I'll have to show them to you at the Finger Lakes Summit.

Also, could I get the Raiders-sized collar a bit bigger, but not too big cause then it will be too big.

This is exactly what I wanted on my jacket. I wanted the exact same size collar and pockets so that it would look just like Indy's jacket, but proportioned so that it looked good on my larger jacket.

I want to be able to wear the jacket to a nice restaurant but also scratch it up and then have it look new.

I think everybody wants this when they order a Wested jacket. It has even led to us having in depth discussions on wether the jacket is a costume piece wether you are dressing as Indiana Jones or wearing it as an everyday jacket. New and distressed, perfect for every occasion.

Well maybe what Wested should do is offer a true spec Indy jacket on the web site at a slightly higher price to make it worth there time................

Indiana_Tone wrote:And Bufflehead, come on. You weren't supposed to address that jarbage line for line!

But nicely done!

Hey, I was serious. I'm just your typical, happy, Wested shopper.







.....it was jarbage? Really?

Indiana Tone's response with regards to a checklist, got me thinkin'...

What if the members here, under the jacket section, establlished a voting poll for Wested leather. Voters can vote if they would prefer the certain elements, that were mentioned above, as standard in order to help make the Raiders jacket more screen-accurate for each and every customer. Since Wested makes a custom jacket, customers can simply say that they wouldn't prefer this or that on their jacket. Otherwise, everything else would come as standard. To me, Wested's method is almost backwards. Today, we are asking/requesting things that SHOULD already be standard if they are ordering a screen-accurate Raiders jacket. Think of how many less threads we would have on here where new members are asking the same questions over and over again: "what are the specs to have a screen-accurate Raiders jacket?" It seems that customers could have a checklist requesting that they do not want a particular element on their jacket. If they do not check it off, therefore, they get what SHOULD be on a Raiders jacket from Wested as standard. In other words, if you don't check it off, Wested assumes that you want that element as standard on your jacket. Simple as that.

I'm not trying to sound "whiney," lol, but this is why I was recently discouraged from buying another Raiders jacket from Wested. Instead, I chose the G&B jacket simply because everything that should be on a Raiders Indy jacket automatically comes as standard with each and every jacket to each and every person. Ordering was sooo easy as compared to recent purchases from Wested where I requested an element to be on my jacket to help make it more screen-accurate, and Wested unintentionally forgot to do it, or I didn't know about an element that would have made it more screen-accurate, but I didn't know about it until I already placed the order. Don't get me wrong, I love Wested and I am honored to own one of their jackets. Would I purchase from them again? Absolutely!

This is just an idea that may help improve the screen accuracy of the Wested Raiders jacket version for each and every customer. Personally, if Wested did make this modification, I'd be more in favor of purchasing another jacket from them again in the future without having to give THEM the detailed checklist of what "should" be on the Raiders version jacket. Just my 0.2 cents/suggestion....

Kindest Regards,
Captain D

All well and good. However, this is Peter's company and Peter's design. I do not feel it is right to try and railroad him with a set of demands.

As I understand it pattern exists in a range of sizes. (I don't know how many). But only as the standard cut. Not the "80's cut". Each time the "80's cut" is requested it has to be estimated by eye and specially cut. In theory he needs to re-make a set of "80's cut" patterns too but I suspect he's not got round to it, so that is why it's something of a pain to do it.

The "nickel" zipper is an interesting dilemma, the brass heavy gauge zipper is a good sturdy one appropriate for the jacket and the colour it was intended to be. If you ask for the "nickel" smaller gauge zipper it is acutually a womens' zipper being requested and as such is somewhat less sturdy. (i.e. big clumsy men are likely to break them!). You can ask for a silver coloured zipper, I think sometimes it depends of they have stock as to whether you get it or not. .

There is also the issue of left or right handed pulls on the zip. It is on the British side (the pull on the left under the storm flap) as standard, but some people request it on the US (Right hand side) side.

As for the sliders, he has had a great deal of trouble getting the black rectangular ones (all but one of his 'trimmings' suppliers has gone to the wall over the years). If we can find the exact accurate ones we should try and send him the wholesaler or just order them up and send them along.

All things being equal, I think that streamlining the process with a "Screen Accurate" and "Modern Cut" (so to speak) with minimal options might appeal to him.

I think you should take this off board and ask him personally if he would be willing to do this before we bring him the shopping list.

Tones idea of a list/check list or a simple word document with tick boxes would be a good solution that you fill in and send with your order. It should have an extra set of boxes that they can check them off too as they do them.

Kt Templar wrote:A simple word document with tick boxes would be a good solution that you fill in and send with your order. It should have an extra set of boxes that they can check them off too as they do them.

Umm I think that a simple HTML form with tick boxes would be a better solution. Not everybody has Word and doc files often take a lot more space than HTML forms.

VP wrote:

Kt Templar wrote:A simple word document with tick boxes would be a good solution that you fill in and send with your order. It should have an extra set of boxes that they can check them off too as they do them.

Umm I think that a simple HTML form with tick boxes would be a better solution. Not everybody has Word and doc files often take a lot more space than HTML forms.

To most people Word is far simpler than HTML. But once set up and as long as it has a "print hardcopy"/"Make pdf" button at the ends so both parties have the same form that's cool. I was trying to set up a Acrobat based form for work, turns out you need to spend £15,000 on the superdooper version of Acrobat to do it... so we ended up using Word. (Before you jump on that, yes we have CS2 Pro and no it wasn't powerful enough!).

I think Gemma should be able to send the form back with any comments, like "We've run out of so an so, do you have a second preference or do you want to wait for next years goat harvest."

Everybody can make HTML forms for free. Yeah you need Adobe Acrobat to edit, save and create PDF files, you can only read them with Acrobat Reader. Of course you can always save your DOC as a PDF. PDF files are better than DOC, but still take up more space than raw text or HTML.

VP wrote:Everybody can make HTML forms for free. Yeah you need Adobe Acrobat to edit, save and create PDF files, you can only read them with Acrobat Reader. Of course you can always save your DOC as a PDF. PDF files are better than DOC, but still take up more space than raw text or HTML.

There is a way to make PDF documents selectively writable on Acrobat Reader (with specific permissions), but like I said, that needs a very expensive version of Uber Acrobat.

Nobody is trying to "railroad" anyone. As I've already mentioned above, it was just a mere "suggestion" that may help to make it much easier for customers, especially new members, to receive a more screen accurate jacket the first time round.' It really wouldn't be much different than any other time in the past where members offered up their opinions and suggestions. In short: customer feedback.

If Peter chooses to go that route, great, if not, that's fine as well. As you had mentioned, and what I agree with, it is his company afterall and he can do anything that he wants. I'm cool and respect Peter's decisions either way....

Kindest Regards,
Capt. D

Captain D wrote:Nobody is trying to "railroad" anyone. As I've already mentioned above, it was just a mere "suggestion" that may help to make it much easier for customers, especially new members, to receive a more screen accurate jacket the first time round.' It really wouldn't be much different than any other time in the past where members offered up their opinions and suggestions. In short: customer feedback.

Absolutely, I apologise if I worded it too strongly. I could see this thread could have ended up in a massive disgruntled outpouring where generally it doesn't seem to be the concensus.

True, he could have a more informative ordering system, he could possibly also have a more "screen accurate" jacket as standard. I was trying to put forward some of the well documented reasons for the "changes", many of which stem from previous "customer feedback".

I have a feeling he keeps the screen accurate type orders in the "custom" band (the no returns band) exactly because some people will order 80's fit when in reality they are more 00's sized!

The yoke and the pleats are issues that probably need a bit of sensible discussion with his view on them too.

best regards,

KT