Club Obi Wan

I was considering purchasing either a Celeste or a Winrich whip. The celeste is a copy of the David Morgan (or so I've read) and the Winrich is just a good all-around whip. Which is the most screen accurate though?
By the way, I am talking about the "IOAB" Winrich and the "Little Raider" Celeste.

I am talking about the "IOAB" Winrich and the "Little Raider" Celeste

Well from what I've heard they are both good whips, same price. Little Raider is 6 plait and IOAB is 4 plait. A part from that, no other big differences.

I don't know if Adam offers something similar but I know for sure that with a Giovanni's whip you also get 2 falls (one dark brown and the other one off-white already attached to the whip) and 6 crackers and wrist loop free included in the price.

PS welcome on board GoneSolo

Winrich is more than an OK whip - he's up there with Joe Strain in my opinion.
There's more to whipmaking than plaits and dollars

exactly, in fact, in many ways, fewer plaits is better, as that means each strand is thicker, making the whip more durable. :junior: -IJ

I guess it comes down to this; if you live in America Winrich is the way to go and if you live in Europe Celeste is the way to go.

Ordering stuff from across the Atlantic means that you will have to pay import-tax - that goes both ways.

I have no personal experience with either Winrich or Celeste - but from what I have heard both are skilled whipmakers and both the IOAB and Little Raiders whips are fine whips for the money.

As to screen accuracy; the whips used in raiders were 12-16 plait roo-hide whips, so none of the above mentioned whips can be called entirely screen-accurate anyway.


/Jakob

JEEP wrote:As to screen accuracy; the whips used in raiders were 12-16 plait roo-hide whips, so none of the above mentioned whips can be called entirely screen-accurate anyway.

This is true and I intend to purchase one with the correct number of plaits someday, but for a beginner whip, I will go for something with less plaits. Somewhere on the forum I read that you really beat up your first whip.

Thanks for your suggestions guys.

EDIT: Anything would be better than the 12ft Mexican Whip with swivel handle that I currently own.

That's true; my el-cheapo whip lasted less than two days - but what can one expect for 200 D.Kr. (about $ 35)?

The IOAB or Little Raiders are, from what I have heard, excellent beginners' and practice whips - though I think it would take more than just normal abuse to actually break them.


/Jakob

I am sure you’d be happy with either whip you choose. As for as screen accuracy, that’s pushing it with either the 4 plait or a 6 plait whip but both whip makers try to make their budget Indy whips look as “Indyish” as possible. Going on looks alone, Giovanni’s 6 plait might edge out Adams 4 plait, but with whips looks aren’t everything, its how well its made that’s most important. I can’t say too much about Giovanni’s whips as I don’t know them as well. He seems to make an honest whip and many members here seem to really like his whips and they are a good price especially for the European market. I believe Adam has been making whips longer and has had a more formal training in whip making. I know many whip enthusiasts that use Winrich whips and I have yet to hear anything negative about them. Infact i know he has gotten compliments for some of the best whip makers and whip handlers in the business. He makes finely crafted, well performing whips (Adam if your reading this don't let it go to your head )and is constantly pushing himself to higher levels whether it’s with a 4 plait or a 24-plait whip. I wouldn’t have any problem buying one of his whips myself or recommending him. I’d suggest researching and reading though the archives here, there has been several posts discussing both whips. Talk to the whip makers themselves, get a better feel for them and their product and go with what you feel will suit you best.

Keep in mind, any whip if its abused will fail early in its life. As long as you’re taking care of your whip and learning to crack it the right way, you won’t be beating it up or abusing it just by learning with it. If you don’t have someone to teach you hands on, get a video or two, follow the general care and use and safety instructions and both you and the whip should be just fine whether it’s a 4 plait or a 8 plait or a 12 plait. Now I still wouldn’t recommend that finely plaited 16 or 24 plait whip to a beginner, but most do just fine on a well made 12 or 8 plait roohide whip. Even as the overlay plait count goes higher, the whip will most will likely to end in a 6 or 8 plait point making it most durable where it needs to be, where its going to take the most wear and tear over time. Since your interested in cowhide whips though, that doesn’t really apply here, you’ll do fine with either a 4 or 6 plait bullwhip as long as its made right.

Just as a bit of additional general information, there where no 16 plait bullwhips used in the Indy films. There was a screen used bullwhip listed in auction as a 16-plait bullwhip a while back, but it was an error it was actually a 12-plait bullwhip

Good luck on your decision.

Dan

BullWhipBorton wrote:Just as a bit of additional general information, there where no 16 plait bullwhips used in the Indy films. There was a screen used bullwhip listed in auction as a 16-plait bullwhip a while back, but it was an error it was actually a 12-plait bullwhip

Just read through the IndyGear whip section again and found this note; he did not construct any 16 plait versions--so that point is probably in error as well.

Doh! Seems I haven't done my homework properly


/Jakob

If you are looking for screen accuracy : only one choice: BERNARDO !!!

BullWhipBorton wrote:
Just as a bit of additional general information, there where no 16 plait bullwhips used in the Indy films. There was a screen used bullwhip listed in auction as a 16-plait bullwhip a while back, but it was an error it was actually a 12-plait bullwhip

I remember a few years back there was a 16 plait Indy on morgans
website, did he stop making them?

Adam

Mola,

Morgan sells, or at least he used to sell a 16 plait bullwhip, but it wasn't exactly called an Indy whip. It was called something like 'the Performers Buillwhip'. I don't really know why he even offered it -- with the exception of the third belly in it, the 16 plait overlay doesn't make a difference between it & the 12 plait version. Just my thoughts...

~Jace

Tyrloch wrote:Mola,

Morgan sells, or at least he used to sell a 16 plait bullwhip, but it wasn't exactly called an Indy whip. It was called something like 'the Performers Buillwhip'. I don't really know why he even offered it -- with the exception of the third belly in it, the 16 plait overlay doesn't make a difference between it & the 12 plait version. Just my thoughts...

~Jace

I believe it was called the "Classic Bullwhip", and it did have a 3rd belly and it was 16 plait. There are still a couple photo's of it around the web somewhere. And I think it said something in the description that it had 8-seam work on it, though my memory is a bit foggy regarding this. It has been off of his website for quite a while now.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Yes he did, David no longer makes the 16 plait bullwhips though. At the time he called them his Classic bullwhip. They had the same balance and shape as the Indy series bullwhips but it was not designed towards resisting damage from impact and abrasion from stunt work, like the Indy whip was. It was built specifically to resist the high stress of constant practice and designed towards having the smoothest action possible. David made the classic bullwhips from the best kangaroo hides he could get at the time and made them more for those wanting a bullwhip for exact precision work like targeting or multiple cracking. Aside from the additional underbelly for strength and stability, they also featured a different braiding pattern at the handle thong transition, it was done in 8 seam work where it left the handle. Then went in the normal herringbone pattern with the 16 plait overlay dropped to an 8 strand point for a smoother action. Hope that helps.

Dan

Thank you for all of your suggestions. You guys really know how to make someone feel welcome! Now I just have to decide what to get.

You can't go wrong with Winrich whips, but also check out what Joe Strain has to offer directly (not from Hollywood Stage Props).

Also, there is a fine whip maker in So.Californis named Greg Fiebach. He sells mostly on eBay, so you will need to be alert to find his offerings. He does very good quality work for a reasonable price.

I am also very high on Troy's work from whips Tasmania.

Good luck, good hunting, good cracking.

-ATB-
Boggstandard

The description originally came from one of the old braided good specialty catalogs, but it wasn’t quite intended to be word for word. The classic bullwhips where very good whips, well built and they had a very nice smooth easy action. I don’t remember the ones I seen being any overly bulky or heavier even with 3rd belly, but that was a while back. I liked them a lot and always regretted not getting one for myself, but liked his 12 plait whips better. As you pointed out they where a bit costly, but still less expensive then his current 12 plait Indy bullwhips are now.

Dan