Club Obi Wan

I'm sure many of you have seen Striders excellent posts from the San Diego Comic Con this past weekend where he and Floatin Joe were able to meet Deborah Nadoolman in person, which I'm still very jealous about.

In any case, as in his post Floatin Joe asked her if she recalled any grey hats being worn by Harrison Ford in Raiders and her respsonse was a flat out NO. Now, she was the head costume designer for the film. This was her work.

I'm not asking anyone to stir up this debate or even ask your opinion, as for some unknown reason the mods do not like us discussing it. However, I just needed to point out that we have yet another person involved in the production stating that there were no grey hats used by Ford for any filming on Raiders. Not only is this a person high up in the film industry and head of the Motion Picture Costume Association, but the person who's responsibility it was to pick out the color schemes for the costumes and work directly with the priciple actors on Raiders. I don't believe I've ever read that anyone has ever asked her that direct question before either.

I know that there are those who feel that she has given contradictory statements in the past over gear but still, I'd say this carries some weight and should be taken seriously. Especially since this is Indygear.

So, please NO comparrison pics of the hats, no screen caps or rehashing of the same old ideas. I just wanted to be sure this info was seen and not lost in his SDCC thread.

Light blue touch paper and retire.

At the end of the day, to me it doesn't really matter whether Ford wore a grey hat or not IMO. The thing is, that particular hat certainly looks grey on screen, so whether it was or not is irrelevant to a certain degree.

Great that Strider asked the question though - nice work, we need more of those direct questions being asked to the 'folks in the know'!

Regards

Al

It looked grey to me but if Nadoolman said "no grey hat" then there it is!
Thanks for the post.

She has been asked before, and at that time she could not recall. That was about 6 years ago. That was the same interview she stated she never heard of Peter Botwright, and that ONLY Redwings boots were used in the movie, and that no Aldens were used at all.

Glad to see that Strider got the low down this time.

Seriously, I don't know HOW she remembers details from all the movies she's been involved with,. as she's been in the middle of the BIG films. I do know that in interviews over the years, her memory of details seem to change, and change quite a bit.

Regards! Michaelson

It was a long time ago. But if she says so, and it was her job after all.

However, let me ask you this, it's not the same thing of course, but just as an example: How many of you remember what colour shoes you were wearing the first time you watched Raiders?

Kt Templar wrote: How many of you remember what colour shoes you were wearing the first time you watched Raiders?

I was wearing white, nike,Ankle socks... sitting at home!

Even if there was no Gray/Grey hat, I think I would still get one anyway, just because it looks nice. Heck, I'm even thinking of getting it in black... It's not the color that maters, because all that does matter are the pinch and the center dent.

Tycoonman

Kt Templar wrote:However, let me ask you this, it's not the same thing of course, but just as an example: How many of you remember what colour shoes you were wearing the first time you watched Raiders?

I'm not a big football fan - I don't think I've ever watched those guys.

Wait - what's that? You're talking about some movie called "Raiders of the Lost Ark"?


Seriously - I don't remember. Probably white, or brown and white - those PayLess shoes that look like Vans but aren't. I was probably 4 or 5.

In Christ,
Shane

I know it was quite a while ago but I don't think it's fair if we fully discount her memory.
There are things I seriously cannot remember from last week, but there are calls I can remember in complete detail from my telemarketing job over 12 years ago.
Nomatter what your opinion on the subject of the hat, I just don't think her comments should be overlooked nomatter how inconsistant she's been in the past.

I agree, and I don't believe any one is discounting anything she says. I just wish she'd pick one answer and stick with it...that's all.

Regards! Michaelson

The clipper and steps were literally the last scenes shot. What if she wasn't there??? Maybe? Nah!!..........

Everyone knows that I am in the gray hat camp. I wish that we could get a definitive answer to that one, but I doubt that is possible. I can actually believe either gray or brown, but logic seems to dictate gray. Wether it was a brown hat and they used lighting techniques to make it appear gray, or if they took the much simpler route and just grabbed a gray hat and plopped it on Ford's head, the hat was meant to look gray on the screen. I guess the powers that be felt the gray hat went with his blue suit better.

Probably the best way to attempt to get a definitive answer to this most monumental question , would be to ask Ford or Spielberg. After 25 years, I doubt that they would even remember this minor detail, but I am sure their answers would be interesting.

I can't say that I blame them for not being able to remember some small detail like this, I know I saw Raiders when it came out, but I don't remember anything about the first time I saw it. I just assume that I saw it in the movie theater when it first came out. It sure seems like I did.

I do actually remember the first time I heard of Raiders. It had just come out and a co-worker had just seen it and was telling me about it. To be honest, even though he was raving about the movie, from his description, I didn't think it sounded all that great. I soon learned how wrong I was.

He said it was about an archeologist that is trying to find the ark that contains the ten commandments before the Nazis do, and in the opening scene, he goes in a booby trapped cave to get a small gold statue and is chased out of the cave by a giant boulder. Ummm, I thought it sounded like the Attack of the Giant Killer Tomatoes or something.

Anyway, I think of the big gray/brown hat debate as a running joke around COW, and I really hold out no hope of it ever being determined one way or the other. It is too small of an insignificant detail and it has been too long.

The subject came up in Strider's thread to ask Deborah Nadoolman about the Aldens/ Red Wings comments she has made in the past. I am glad that this was not done. To confront her about a mistake that she made, would have been rude and uncalled for.

Ask her questions about her huge role in this great film and enjoy listening to her responses. Just remember that the accuracy of her answers has been tempered with the passage of time. It is just a great honor and privilege to get to meet her and talk to her. Hopefully, one day, that honor will be mine.

after listening to this debate (forever) I think I have to say I think the hat was brown, but it was intended to be grey (don't correct me on the spelling :evil: ) and was made to look so with some trick of the light. So if I ever got a seaplane fedora, I'd go for grey. :junior: -IJ

IndianaJones, we feel about it the same way, even though we are on opposite sides of the conflict. I may be receiving my seaplane/steps gray AB from Steve sometime this week.

It is screen accurate, but wether it is actually prop accurate, who knows, that is the subject of great debate.

you know it's interesting...when I first came here, I never thought we'd be getting into the difference between screen accurate and prop accurate. Now THAT'S attention to detail! :junior: -IJ

Ps. from what I've seen of the color swatches, I love that color. It just matches what I see on the screen so perfectly. :junior: -IJ

Michaelson wrote:I agree, and I don't believe any one is discounting anything she says. I just wish she'd pick one answer and stick with it...that's all.

Regards! Michaelson

an excellent point! I can live with any answer, even if she said she does not remember.
I consider Nadoolman as accurate a source as Spielberg or Ford. She (or anyone) needs to be consistant in their answers.
The question we have to consider for ourselves is can we remember the work we did on any particular job 25 years ago? Hmmm...

If you look at what Nadoolman said to Strider, she mentioned that the reason Indy wears so much brown is that it makes him more down to earth and helps him to resonate with the viewers. Based on that, I tend to agree with her on the color. I might doubt her if she randomly says "it was brown," but if she can provide a rationale for why it was brown, that makes me really have to trust her. :junior: -IJ

ob1al you cracked me up!

Michaelson wrote:She has been asked before, and at that time she could not recall. That was about 6 years ago. That was the same interview she stated she never heard of Peter Botwright, and that ONLY Redwings boots were used in the movie, and that no Aldens were used at all.

This is always a *great* counterargument Mike!

Feraud wrote:
The question we have to consider for ourselves is can we remember the work we did on any particular job 25 years ago? Hmmm...

Actually, I can remember most of the ones that ended up in the hospital.

Kind regards,
Magnoli

Bufflehead Jones wrote:Everyone knows that I am in the gray hat camp. I wish that we could get a definitive answer to that one, but I doubt that is possible. I can actually believe either gray or brown, but logic seems to dictate gray. Wether it was a brown hat and they used lighting techniques to make it appear gray, or if they took the much simpler route and just grabbed a gray hat and plopped it on Ford's head, the hat was meant to look gray on the screen. I guess the powers that be felt the gray hat went with his blue suit better.

Probably the best way to attempt to get a definitive answer to this most monumental question , would be to ask Ford or Spielberg. After 25 years, I doubt that they would even remember this minor detail, but I am sure their answers would be interesting.

I can't say that I blame them for not being able to remember some small detail like this, I know I saw Raiders when it came out, but I don't remember anything about the first time I saw it. I just assume that I saw it in the movie theater when it first came out. It sure seems like I did.

I do actually remember the first time I heard of Raiders. It had just come out and a co-worker had just seen it and was telling me about it. To be honest, even though he was raving about the movie, from his description, I didn't think it sounded all that great. I soon learned how wrong I was.

He said it was about an archeologist that is trying to find the ark that contains the ten commandments before the Nazis do, and in the opening scene, he goes in a booby trapped cave to get a small gold statue and is chased out of the cave by a giant boulder. Ummm, I thought it sounded like the Attack of the Giant Killer Tomatoes or something.

Anyway, I think of the big gray/brown hat debate as a running joke around COW, and I really hold out no hope of it ever being determined one way or the other. It is too small of an insignificant detail and it has been too long.

The subject came up in Strider's thread to ask Deborah Nadoolman about the Aldens/ Red Wings comments she has made in the past. I am glad that this was not done. To confront her about a mistake that she made, would have been rude and uncalled for.

Ask her questions about her huge role in this great film and enjoy listening to her responses. Just remember that the accuracy of her answers has been tempered with the passage of time. It is just a great honor and privilege to get to meet her and talk to her. Hopefully, one day, that honor will be mine.

Actually , there is one other person that knew the color of the hat ,...she was in the scene shot at the San Fransisco Town Hall...
Karen Allen , should know if the last scene hat was grey or brown

Texas Raider could have asked her when he had his picture taken with her.

The moderator's must be shaking their heads like crazy at this point, but hey it's fun. Isn't that what it's all about?

If I asked my Mom, what color hat was Indy wearing when he gets on the plane and when he is on the steps at the end, she like everyone else I know, would say, "Gray/Grey, of course! With the dark suit!"

I don't know... I am going with gray! With the "a" too! How do you like that?

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it seems kinda obvious... Did he ask her about those PARTICULAR scenes? We all know he WAS wearing a blue or black suit... Not brown... She may have been talking about the costume in general...

MichaelB

All this talk of the color of the suit going with a grey/gray hat... what color shoes and belt do you wear with a blue suit, anyway?

You know, I think I'm content with never really knowing the true answer on this one. It seems regardless of the answer or the truth, there will always be folks who believe the hat was brown and those who attest to it being grey. Though I personally like the idea of the hat being grey, I think Nadoolman's explanation as to why it was brown lends a certain credibility (just as other scources are still credible). Either way, Buff's right on this: just having talked to Nadoolman in person is all that really matters here. I bet if we also asked the other big names what the color of the hat in question was, the score would come out 50-50. We'd still never know. Let it go, Indiana. Let it go.

Next question: The Blues Brothers fedora: Black or Navy Blue?

grey, brown. at this point I don't reall care. I saw grey everytime I see that movie but I can see were it could be brown. Ford was caring a light brown trench onto the plane ( wouls go great wit a brown fedora).
I think if I was standing in front of Ms. Nadoolman, I would ask her to give my Adventurebilt the same treatment she gave Fords had ( Raiders).

Renderking Fisk wrote:Next question: The Blues Brothers fedora: Black or Navy Blue?

Black. Definitely black.

agent5 wrote:I'm sure many of you have seen Striders excellent posts from the San Diego Comic Con this past weekend where he was able to meet Deborah Nadoolman in person, which I'm still very jealous about.

In any case, as in his post he asked her if she recalled any grey hats being worn by Harrison Ford in Raiders and her respsonse was a flat out NO. Now, she was the head costume designer for the film. This was her work.

Okay, so my computer is still not hooked up to the internet (this upcoming weekend), but was able to hop on for a quick moment tonight...

Agent5, just feel the need that if this conversation is going to make you jealous, I should take the credit for asking Deborah this question. I had a nice conversation with her about the costume and about Marion's costume as well. Had to go through the line twice to accomplish that. I'll have more details forthcoming, but I've only got access to the net for a few minutes tonight.

Mike

D'OH!!!

I'm not jealous...'I'm really rather envious'.

I can't wait to hear the full details then. Not at all trying to steal any of your glory at all, man. Sorry. Wish I was as lucky as you guys to be there so I could have gotten the story straight...and see all of those incredible young women as well.

Honestly, it's not that we don't want the topic talked about.
It s just that the topic has caused way too many flame wars and everyone gets very nasty and rude.

This is one of those topics that will never go away and ford himself, shows up wearing the gray hat he kept from the set and wears everday...
(oops, did I say that out loud, forget what you just heard...)

I'm not going to say that she is right or wrong, but unless she was on set at the time, and accounted for ALL of the costumes on hand personally, we'll never know.

Flame wars shmade wars...

I don't think anyone has been nasty or rude at all... (Except maybe me...)_

Ah HA! So Mr. Ford DOES own a GRAY hat after all...

(And I AM extremely jealous by the way...)

Ok, maybe we will never know...

But I still think it's gray...

MB

Well, I'll accept Nadoolman's answer that no gray/grey hats were used. But I agree with Feraud, it looks gray to me, even more so when playing the dvd on my newer tv. All the colors are better. Even Ford's blue suit looks richer and more blue (it is blue, isn't it? 8-[)

I really have nothing to say in this topic, as I heard the words come out of Deborah's mouth, in person, so I'm fine with that. The only other thing I want to say is that I want to make it clear that Floatin' Joe asked the question, and this is what I stated in my (unedited) comic con thread.

FJ informed her of the debate that crops up here from time to time about grey vs. brown hats in Raiders, and Mrs. Nadoolman had this to say: "No grey hats. All the hats were brown." This would seem to conflict with Robert Stephens' statement that grey hats were used.

Not upset, just want everyone involved to know that I gave Floatin' Joe credit where credit was due.

Nasty and rude? I thought that I had been very nice and on my best behavior in this thread so far.

I acknowleged that both sides of the argument have very determined devotees. I told a story. I stated that we should all show Deborah Nadoolman the courtesy and respect that she deserves. I acknowleged that this debate will most likely never reach a definitive conclusion.

I haven't threatened anyone with bodily harm or called anyone names or addressed them in any kind of demeaning manner, yet. So far, so good.

Bufflehead Jones wrote:...I haven't threatened anyone with bodily harm or called anyone names or addressed them in any kind of demeaning manner, yet. So far, so good.

Yet!

You noticed that. Whooopsi.

bo

Renderking Fisk wrote:Next question: The Blues Brothers fedora: Black or Navy Blue?

Black. It's been proven by the fact that the hat Aykroyd picked for the second movie was black. Now if it was Blue, he would have picked out a blue one, right. Also, the hat was to be remeniscent of other blues artists who generally wore black, short brimmed fedoras and porkpies. Don't argue, I'm an expert

As for the Grey hat theory, I don't really care which it was when shooting. It looks grey on film and hence, I have a suitable grey hat (my vintage Stetson Sovereign)

Renderking Fisk wrote:Next question: The Blues Brothers fedora: Black or Navy Blue?

Actually... Although Elwood's fedora is always black, I've seen Jake performing in a faded hat which was closer to brown than black with a ribbon so faded it was quite purple! He was also wearing aviator type glasses instead of the standard issue BB shades. Belushi was famous for misplacing his Jake gear, so this hat/glasses combination was probably a last minute replacement.

And now...back to the grey/gray/brown debate...

Kind regards,
Magnoli

webhead73 wrote:Maybe this has already been covered but here goes...

Why couldn't Indy have two hats? One brown for "work" and one grey for other uses? What if the brown needed to be cleaned and he only had the grey available?

I have a somewhat similiar question, specifically regarding the "gray" hat in the clipper scene. Why would Indy bring two hats with him? The guy was about to go half-way around the world to search for an item that's "like nothing you've ever gone after before", and he's going to be worrying about packing a second hat in his luggage?!? For someone who is fashion-conscience, I could understand this - but Indy strikes me as a practical guy, so I would think he would pack light.

We see him pack his "adventure" stuff in that piece of luggage; would he have smushed his 2nd hat in there, too? Or did he bring additional luggage? And if so, what else could he possible have brought with him? I mean, he is a guy, after all, and most guys even today don't pack a lot of stuff with them when they travel, so what's left to bring on a big adventure in 1936?

Just some food for thought....

Indy Magnoli wrote: I've seen Jake performing in a faded hat which was closer to brown than black with a ribbon so faded it was quite purple! He was also wearing aviator type glasses instead of the standard issue BB shades. Belushi was famous for misplacing his Jake gear, so this hat/glasses combination was probably a last minute replacement.

This is very true of the SNL shows but through the movie he always wears a black fedora and Ray Ban tourtoiseshell sunglasses. You must like the Blues Bros. alot to have noticed that though.

I mean, as much as we gearheads wish otherwise, a sweat-stained shirt and dirty hat are not proper attire for being in a civilized setting (note: comic cons, fan films and our backyards do not count as civilized settings). :junior: -IJ

I've edited the initial post as to be more accurate to the story as I now understand it.
Didn't mean to steal your thunder Joe and I'm eagerly awaiting to hear what she said.

IndyParise wrote:This is very true of the SNL shows but through the movie he always wears a black fedora and Ray Ban tourtoiseshell sunglasses. You must like the Blues Bros. alot to have noticed that though.

I agree absolutely. And yes... I'm a fan. I've even performed as Elwood a few times.

...now back to the topic... again. Ok... we'll stop talking Blues Brothers now.

Kind regards,
Magnoli

Indy Magnoli wrote: I've even performed as Elwood a few times.

Alright, one more BB thing.

Ah, so you're another Elwood. I have also portrayed Elwood on stage a few times. Are you a member of www.bluesbrotherscentral.com? I am Elwood Blus on the site (no it is not a typo)

Regarding The Blues Brothers, doesn't anyone remember the prison release scene when Frank Oz is returning and describing Jake's possessions? He says right in the movie, "One hat: black."

Though I'm liking this new prop accurate/screen accurate twist on the brown/grey Indy fedora drama here.

Snakewhip_Sable wrote: He says right in the movie, "One hat: black."

I can't believe I forgot that.

Deborah's filmography . http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0618966/#cos ... signer1970

Thank you for that, 3K$.

As long as these topics stay civil, you can discuss this 'til the cows come home. (pun intended... ha!)

I'm not truly convinced either way at this time. But one thing to remember, is the khaki colored shirt looks "stone" in the film due to the way it was filmed. So maybe it was a brown fedora, but looks gray again due to lighting. So people that have a stone colored shirt are "film" accurate and ones with a khaki are "being filmed" accurate. Maybe this should fall into this camp. Both are right. Brown being filmed, gray on screen....

But then again...