Inside pocket and Demon Roll?

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:34 pm

I'm almost done with the details for my Wested-to-be. Here's my latest conundrums...

1. For a Raiders jacket, if I want the best drape, but also comfortable, should I get the inside pocket with or without a zipper? Full facing or minimal facing?

2. I've bumped into mentions of "the demon roll" but no explanation of what that is. So... what the #@$# is it?

Thanks
Chewie

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:52 am

If it were me, i'd get rid of the inside pocket completely. It really stuffs the drape around (in my opinion/experience anyway...). If you really want an inside pocket, get minimal facing.

As for the demon roll, i'm sure someone else will explain it (with pictures?). But as far as I can explain, it's a certain way the part of the jacket with the zipper drapes. Essentially near the top or something that part curls around so that back of the zipper is facing the front.

Not a good explanation, but as I said, someone else will probably tell you in better detail.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:02 am

Unless you put a lot of stuff in the inside pocket I dont think it makes a lot of difference. I've played with the idea of getting 2 to even out any percieved drape issues. The extra facing actually holds the pocket closed in my experience.

As for demon roll I think it's the effect you see here with the wavy zipper. I don't mind it at all, I think it adds character

.

Post by **Ken** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:00 pm

The only way I found to prevent Demon Roll TM is not to zip the jacket up or make sure you zip it up more than half way when you wear it.

I developed a bad case of it with my first Wested when I wore it to work every day half zipped and after 6 months it had set in irreperably.

I do believe though it only happens with Westeds.

Ken

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:55 pm

The odd thing about the demon roll is that it doesn't effect everyone. I've never had it on my Wested and I rarely zip it over the halfway point.

Post by **Ken** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:18 pm

Well its more than just the half way point its how you wear it.

If you allow the jacket to peel back when its half zipped it will form a memory to do this. If instead it kind of billows out a little then it wont form the Demon roll TM memory.

Its hard to explain but this is based on ym experience of several Westeds.

Ken

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:47 pm

KT Templar - That is a beautiful jacket you have!! I love the look of the color in that picture.

Is it lamb? Goat?

Man!! Just had to get that in here.

*announcer voice*
And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread!

In Christ,
Shane

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:10 pm

IndyMcFly wrote:KT Templar - That is a beautiful jacket you have!! I love the look of the color in that picture. Is it lamb? Goat?

That is your honest to goodness authentic brown lamb!

Thank you for the compliment sir. I will try to answer your sleeve length question in a bit!

Indiana Ken wrote:If you allow the jacket to peel back when its half zipped it will form a memory to do this. If instead it kind of billows out a little then it wont form the Demon roll TM memory.

Its hard to explain but this is based on my experience of several Westeds.

Ken

Ken,

I have a theory, it may be a totally crackpot one but bear with me! I think the demon roll can be caused by a slight tension difference between the leather of the jacket and the fabric of the zipper edging. ie the leather is slightly overstretched then the zipper is sewn in, so when the leather relaxes back to it's normal dimensions the zipper is in effect 'too long' and causes it to try and move laterally causing the roll effect.

I think this is a result of a combination of the light weight of the lambskin and it may also be a trademark of one of the machinists, therefore you do not see it on every jacket.

But as you see it on a screen used jacket I really don't mind it.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:08 pm

If KT Templar's explanation is right, that the Demon Roll is the wavy zipper (please somebody confirm that for sure), I WANT that look. To me, a wavy zipper is part of the Indy look. So, I want to be sure I'm ordering right, and should ask for cotton zipper facing.
BUT if the demon roll is some other, less attractive problem, tell me now so I ask for leather facing.

Dre; I like your adbice on axing the pocket. I really don't need it. The one in my old Fanclub jacket annoyed me (it's only negative point). Thanks.

PS- KT, the jacket looks fantastic. I hope mine looks that good. That zipper has no leather facing, right?

Post by **Ken** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:12 pm

Demon Roll isn't a wavy zipper, its when the jacket peels back on one side (the storm flap side) in an aesthetically unpleasing way.

Its definitly not screen accurate and very annoying.

Ken

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:34 pm

Indiana Ken wrote:Demon Roll isn't a wavy zipper, its when the jacket peels back on one side (the storm flap side) in an aesthetically unpleasing way.

Its definitly not screen accurate and very annoying.

Ken

Thanks, Ken. But will inside leather zipper facing prevent that? Or is that just a risk with any Wested?

Post by **Ken** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:36 pm

Identifying the exact course is still an issue of debate. You can see my thoughts above.

Redbeard I believe it was tried to fix it by implanting (yes implanting) a pecie of plastic on the inside of his jacket in that area - it solved the Demon roll but created other problems.

In my experience you can control whether Demon Roll occurs or not in how you wear the Wested. I beleive any Wested is susceptable to it. I have had it happen on several of mine and when I got my most recent one I took precautions and to date no Demon Roll.

Ken

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:57 pm

My first Wested "distressed cow" has it big time, you can see it in the below pic, on the right side (my left). It travels the whole length.
Doesn't happen on my Auth. Goat, not sure if it's due to the minamal facing on the inside pocket.

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... acket.html

(Yea yea it's an old hat, pre-AB)

Croft

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:29 pm

Hmm, I always thought the demon roll was what KT showed in his photo. The side opposite the storm flap curling at the top, which as he said, is screen accurate.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:42 am

Chewbacca Jones wrote:If KT Templar's explanation is right, that the Demon Roll is the wavy zipper.

PS- KT, the jacket looks fantastic. I hope mine looks that good. That zipper has no leather facing, right?

Ok, seems it's not Demon Roll then!

Anyway my particular jacket has a full satin lining and no facing on the zipper, it also has a fully faced pocket. The right hand outward curl on the storm flap is because I had a Raiders collar put on an LC jacket and the bit where it curls is where the stitches overlap. (You have to look very closely to see them they did an amazing job).

Ken can you find us a pic to illustrate the effect you are talking about please. Is it similar to the one on Crofts where the whole stormflap seems to be holding itself folded back?

Post by **Ken** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:02 am

Look at my jacket in the picture.

That is Demon Roll. The jacket permanently stays curled over like that. Contrast it with Lee's storm flap side of his jacket.

Ken

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:23 am

I see what you mean, yes that would indeed be very annoying.

Have you had any experience of faced non faced zippers? If yes, does the facing make any difference?

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:30 am

The cotton Raiders does it too, so it must be inherent in the finish. I used spray starch on mine, ironed it flat, and no further roll. It has never come back either, even after two dry cleanings.

There have been several 'tricks' posted to solve this roll, so if you look around, you can find a lot of different ways to remove this thing.

Regards! Michaelson

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:21 pm

Clicked on today. Demon roll never heard of it before and never to my knowledge had a complaint about it.
I will check it out on Monday but it would appear to be purely a staflex or interface problem which is basically an iron on webbin to retain shape on soft skins. Maybe it needs a little more.
Cheers Peter

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:21 pm

I mentioned it to you about 5 years ago, Peter. It seemed to go away for a while, but returned with a vengence when goatskin was introduced.

We've just dealt with it ourselves when someone posted a photo of Ford's jacket suffering the same fate in a few places where his jacket was unzipped.

No big deal, but it's something that does irritate folks on occasion.

Regards! Michaelson

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:53 am

Nice to see ya, Michaelson. And trust me my friend, I've felt your frustration!

It's one reason I'm basically so vocal and some may say politically incorrect

But I just always prefer honesty ,so people always know where I stand, and where one stands with me

I generally don't pull any punches, what you see is what you get. We've had past disaggreements, you and I and mods, etc.

but I hope it's all water under the bridge and made a stronger comradery amongst us.

Like you, I'm mainly an Indy man, this hobby is special to me, as you probably know. I don't frequent, nor even enter any other forums, only THIS one!

High regards!

Sorry to hi-jack the thread,,,we now return to our normal broadcasting

TR

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:00 am

ALL water under the bridge, my friend.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:03 am

Funny thing is, for me I like when my jackets do that. The Lambskin that I own now does exactly what Ken's is doing in the picture with Lee and what KT's is doing on the fence (if not more), and I love it and am asking for no facing because I like it so much. It's just that much more character for the jacket IMHO. Haha..maybe I'll start referring to it as the "angelic roll" or something

. People just expect different things from these jackets I guess. I'm pretty sure Indy's did (some) of this in the movies, right?

Doug C

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:08 am

Doug C wrote: I'm pretty sure Indy's did (some) of this in the movies, right?

Doug C

They sure did.

It's not a big problem....but sometimes is can be irritating when you're trying to keep the wind out, and that one side refuses to stay put. Otherwise, it's not a big deal.

Regards! Michaelson

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:48 pm

Thank you Gents, one and all, for your advice on this and my previous questions. I am confident that I have benefitted from the knowledge of this forum to the tune of $300+! They say you can't get it all in one Wested, but I'm trying! I'll be sure to post pics when it arrives.
Chewie

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:48 pm

Chewbacca, if it works for you, then that's all that matters. Screen accurate is nice and all, but (and don't faint when I say this

), but none of us are 'Indiana Jones'!

Make it work for YOU and YOUR adventures. That's what makes it special, it's YOUR jacket. Make it work for YOU!

Regards! Michaelson

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:32 pm

I had the "demon roll" but an unfortunate event helped fix it for me. Both sides of my authentic lambskin jacket zipped folded back - I may have a picture of this somewhere.

I brought my jacket in my backpack while hiking as the temp drops dramatically above the treeline. So does the rain. I got caught in a rainstorm and soaked the jacket all the way through.

When I got back to the car, I took off the jacket and zipped it up until I got home. At that point, I put it on a hanger and then kept it zipped until it was completely dry. Demon roll was gone after that. I am not advocating this, but just telling you that there may be ways to make it go away.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:03 pm

Michaelson wrote:Chewbacca, if it works for you, then that's all that matters. Screen accurate is nice and all, but (and don't faint when I say this ), but none of us are 'Indiana Jones'!

Make it work for YOU and YOUR adventures. That's what makes it special, it's YOUR jacket. Make it work for YOU!

Regards! Michaelson

Well said Michaelson! I've always felt that way, too. There were things I wanted accurate to the film, but mostly I wasn't interested in a prop replica. May all your adventures end Happily Ever After (until the sequel)!
Chewie