Club Obi Wan

My new Akubra Fed regular. size 59, a size and a half too big for me. 6 inch open crown. Folded sweat plus a 360 multilayered narrow strip of masking tape. Tighented ribbon, tightened more on top. A stitch that pleats the felt under the ribbon in the right front dent. The pleat makes the front of the hat look like the hat on the table, with a smooth swoop in the front crease, no break like a non pleated hat. The pleat also raises the top of the right side dent. Notice the back tilt and the way the felt bulges over the ribbon in back. This is what I've been trying to get for years. If it wasn't a stiff new reg. Fed, I'd be getting more. the left brim needs a wire The top dent is the deepest I've ever had, that I could wear, but this is a 6 inch hat, with a smaller head in it than there normally would be. Heres the stitched pleat Here's the folded sweat and layeres of tape stuffing

I say this with all sincerity and respect to a tireless researcher:

I'll bet you feel how Buddhist monks feel when they achieve enlightenment, 3Thou. All warm and glowy and basking in Nirvana. Am I right?

So I ask: What now?

Looks very good from the side, but the front view has too much taper to the crown in my book. But that might very well be due to the original Fed. block... or was this reblocked on your block?

Regards,

Marc

I'm filled with anger, and regret that it took so long, and it's not perfect. If you guys can get more accurate hats with these tricks, I'll enjoy seeing that... Next, I'm going to do the rock star thing again... or maybe the homeless bum thing again?... Yeah Marc, the Fed has some side taper, and an AB might work better, however, there's some adjutment to be had in the brim stuffing. Also, this is the Raven hat, which had some taper on the bow side. The Cairo hat had less taper.

WOW!!! Slow, slow. All I'm saying, is that the block needs a little tweaking or perhabs the felt of the Akubra is just a notch too stiff.

I didn't know you'd take my words so offensive

Regards,

Marc

Relax Marc! The first part was a response to SnakeWhip Sable! I'm sure the Fed has more taper in the front and back than an AB. I wasn't very happy with it when I took it out of the box, due to taper everywhere. An AB would probably work better. A slightly smaller hat with less taper would probably work better. I'm using thicker stuffing than I'd like to.

Wow. It looked pretty perfect to me!

Namaste, good sir! 'love the hat'.

I noticed the Federation looked like it had been stretched on a machine, as it's said the HJ Poets were. I took these pics the first day, before I did any bashing. The stretching seems to have effected the leather sweat and lining. Darthjones showed me a picture of his machine, which looks exactly like this one. It has reverse taper. Is that so you can stretch a hat with a sweatband already in it? I think there might be a little stretching on the Raiders hat here. It's rearward, but the hat is turned.

Rather impressive results... expecially the stitched pleat. You should try with an AB anyway, I can see that the Akubra give many "limits" to your field experimentation.
Anyway it's always interesting to follow your threads

Thanks erri. ..... by the way, I left a quarter inch gap in the sweat stuffing to really accomodate the pleat.

3thoubucks, Looks like you are on to something there but tell us on how does it feel on your head?

Notice the back tilt and the way the felt bulges over the ribbon in back. This is what I've been trying to get for years.

Oh, now I undestand!! I am a bit dense at times, just like beaver felt. That hat looks great, congrats on arriving. I should s send you this vintage HJ body, You can get the bulge by just pressing down on the top of the hat. That is the sort of felt it is, a characteristic of that particular kind of felt. It mushrooms and bulges out over the back ribbon without the stuff you have had to go through. Most folks would not like it due to it's inability to hold its new looking state. For Indy fans, it would be a godsend. Good show!! Regards, Fedora

Fedora, do you also sell vintage bodies on request?

Fedora, do you also sell vintage bodies on request?

No, I had a few last year, but some of us here now own them. Fedora

And what a nice body it is! I love it when the chicks check out my body. The hat body, I mean.

Fedora,...... I've only owned 3 serious Indy hats... A Miller and a PBBM I bought at the end of 2002, and this Fed. Unless you can show me some great side views of worn hats, I'm skeptical. I just checked the "Post Your Adventurebuilts Here" thread for any new square on side views- none. The only ones I've found there are erri_Wan's and Modern Jones- they look terrible. Their hats look like this picure of Mike's HJ ..They look FANTASTIC from the front, and not good from the side They might be too tight , but that wouldn't make up all the difference. You didn't answer my request about those GHOST hats you just superinposed on the Marhala Hat. I'd like to see the actual pictures, and whether you guys are wearing those hats! I think I 'll start a new thread "Post the Side Views of your Adventurebuilts Here" But like I said, an AB would probably work better than a Fed. Here's my Miller- the first hat I bought and an oversized 59 7 3/8 also. Even then I thought the Raiders hat was oversized. I didn't put enough stuffing in it or tighten the ribbon- I didn't get enough back tilt/bulge. I couldn't get a deep top dent because it only had a 5 1/2 inch crown. My 57 7 1/8 PBBM looks like Mike's

Thanks for the compliments pal

Anyway that hat is a HJ of the 80's era and not an Adventurebilt I think

and you and Marc should experiment!

I have been, for the last 4 years!! But, I will never block a hat a size or two too large, and then go through what you have gone through to produce a hat. In is unfeasible. Plus, I would stake my life on the costumer fitting Ford with an HJ, and then distressing it. They would have never went through what you have to produce the hat. But, with that said, you should go into business, producing what you think is "the hat"

I am satisfied with what we are producing. I think they would look very close to what the original Raiders HJ looked like when new, prior to distressing. That back taper you are so fond of comes from the particular characteristic of the felt used. I can squash down my vintage HJ, and get that same look. It mushrooms. Personally, I want to produce what the original Raiders HJ looked like new. I make new hats, not distressed ones. I leave the distressing up to the folk who buy them. Now, here is what the hat looked like prior to being sat on, and distressed. Notice, no reverse taper on the back of the hat, at all. In fact, it has taper, as many hats do.




Now, distress the hat, sit on it, make that felt mushroom out, not only on the sides, but the back as well. And this is what you end up with. Look, it is so obvious. The felt balloons out from the hat, as if almost the block shape was a mushroom. And that is all that it is. The hat fits, it is not sizes too large, it is just mushroomed out to give you that reverse taper. How hard is this to visualize. It just seems a no brainer to me, and to anyone who works on hats.






What I do not understand, is how such a bright guy such as yourself can dismiss the obvious. I do not understand it at all. But, I respect your thinking, I am just puzzled why the easiest explanation has no effect on your thinking. But, explain it, and I will listen. Regards, Fedora

I take that to mean the "ghost hats" were unworn? I think you can see what looks like indications of stuffing on the outside of the Raiders ribbon. But yeah, interested parties should buy oversized AB's and do their own mods!

After just watching the Raiders making of part of the DVD and Nooldeman saying there were mulitple hat fittings to get the right look, I'd highly doubt that the hat didn't fit correctly. They may still have stuffed or folded the sweat during filming to make it extra tight though.

Whoa! I've never seen that shot of the back before, Fedora. The center dent is quite extended in the back. That picture of Ford shows how long his head is, too.

IndyDoc wrote:They may still have stuffed or folded the sweat during filming to make it extra tight though.

No doubt, since their biggest concern with the hat was how to keep it from flying off Harrison Ford's head. I bet any modifications they made to the hat were done with this in mind.

This hat has about a 6 inch open crown, and I'm thrilled to finally be getting a deep bash, which puts a lot of arch in the sides of the dome profile. Still, it was hitting the top of my head. I ripped out the liner tonight, with the clear plastic sweat guard at the top. I got about a 1mm extra clearence there, then I sanded the inside of the dome where my head touches. .. I don't feel this was cheating, as we don't know if the Raiders hat still had a lining, and the felt was certainly thinner on the Raiders hat. I don't believe anything Swales said, but he said the Raiders hat had a 6 inch crown. If this was a 7 1/8 hat like my PBBM, a six inch crown would look too tall, but it's a 7 and 3/8 so it doesn't look bad. New, out of the box 5 days ago, this hat slipped down over the outside of my ears! ....I can't understand why this hat looks brown in pictues. It's green. The regular Fed is a green hat.

3thoubucks wrote:I don't believe anything Swales said, but he said the Raiders hat had a 6 inch crown.

Where?

I believe this hat is an AB - side profile looks OK to me.

Here is another less used pic showing the bulging felt on the back of the hat, giving you the reverse taper. One way to have this is to have a felt that is apt to bulge when sat upon. The other is the way 3M$ is doing it, by using a hat too large and then cinching down the look and doubling the sweat. Which one would you want to wear as a daily hat? I guess it would make no difference, if you just put the hat on display.

believe this hat is an AB - side profile looks OK to me.

No fair, you cheat Dr Jones! The rules are, you cannot use ABs that look accurate, only the ones that don't. Otherwise, you have no argument. Fedora

AH-Ha! I was aware of the Pagey pics. The man is an artist of the highest talent. Have you seen his paintings? He can make a perfect reproduction of the Mona Lisa with a $5.00 canvas and 5 tubes of paint- Believe that! The background in this pic looks like a stage setting, not the typical back yard or book shelf and cluttered desk- Everything carefully arranged and angled.. I'll bet he took this shot 15 times. The first thing I noticed about this hat was it looked big for Pagey. And, it's not even pulled down on his head, It's just sitting there like one of Fedora's fresh hats on top of an upside down block. Darn you Pagey. You master of illusion!

3thoubucks wrote:The first thing I noticed about this hat was it looked big for Pagey.

Actually I believe he said once that he buys his hats slightly smaller so they stay on the head also with strong wind but if you want we can ask him directly

Anyway if he can show something in a picture without any trick than taking the best one within many... speaking of illusion is wrong. What's wrong if he show us only the best pictures he got?

Are you saying he's not wearing his hat unnaturally high in that shot Erri?

3thoubucks wrote:Are you saying he's not wearing his hat ridiculously high in that shot Erri?

I would rather prefer to say... screen accurate high

I's say not much higher than you wear yours. Perhaps he has a slightly taller forehead is all.

Pagey 's hat is at least a half inch higher up than mine. I lightened up Pagey's hat, and the truth is revealed. There's no Raiders break in the brim between his eye and ear. This means that hat it completely loose on his head, or the hat isn't turned- then we're not even looking at a Raiders hat. Even unturned, the brim would break at the front of his forehead, but it breaks weirdly around to his left? I don't understand what that's about, but the hat must be completely loose for the brim to act niether like a turned or unturned hat. My hat is on so tight it hurts.

3thoubucks you're crazy don't take offence

Ddamn you Pagey. You master of illusion!

That caused some chagrin with Pagey. Someone else mentioned something similiar back when he was posting pics. He denies it. So since he is not here, I will deny it for him, once again. Fedora

I think that's just how he wears his hat. There are plenty to be found..

Okay, this from the horses mouth - so to speak.

Regards the first issue; I always respected 3K$ because he really showed us the importance of "the turn" - something I have done to hats ever since. So to have him of all people call me a cheat and "illusionist" is the last straw. My own theory on the raiders hat is that it looked rather small and tight on Ford's head, and as a result I have ordered most of my hats a size smaller than I would otherwise wear so that the hat sits tightly high on my head and can pulled down (really tightly) and won't blow off even in a gale. So 3K$ can just get stuffed with his observations about my hat. I've found a way of bashing a hat to my liking, which I think is pretty Raiders-esque. If people don't believe me (I put up a pretty simple tutorial for goodness sake!!) then I couldn't care less. OB1 and Breineder have seen me wearing my hats in person and know that y hat DOES exist and is not just photoshopped. I have absolutely no further regard for 3K$ so perhaps he'll kindly desisit from uising my "photoshopped" pictures on his website.
Regardes the second issure; Yes I did leave COW about a year or so ago (partly for issues like the above!) and yes I did try to rejoin recently. Yes, the COW admin denied my rejoining based on a "unanimous decision". That decision is theirs and they have every right to make it. I told them I will respect that decision with no hard feelings.
Cheers, Pagey

That appears to be California Adventure, Adventure Trail if I am not mistaken. Correct :

Tycoonman

O.K. ... I miss Pagey very much, wish he was here. There are two pictures of him on my website (click the "raidershat.com" link below), which he said I could use. I never said his pics were "Photoshopped", someone else said that. I am a painter and so is Pagey. We take some goo and a flat surface and create a believeable atrificial reality. For me to call Pagey a "Master of Illusion" (not an "illusionist") is nothing but the highest complement. Master, as in "Old Master" . And I certainly NEVER called him a "cheat". I don't know if he was trying to show us a Raiders bash or a regular bash in his tutorial, but it was a long time ago, and had NOTHTNG to do, directly, with THIS thread. ...........Now. I spent a sleepless night last night , thinking there was a flaw in my theory. Obviously, the front of my hat stands out from the front of my Pagey like vertical forehead, like it's got stuffing in it. And that doesn't seem to be the case with Harrison Ford's Raiders hat. But I looked at Raiders today, and can see why. His forehead almost never stops receeding!...

Tycoonman wrote: That appears to be California Adventure, Adventure Trail if I am not mistaken. Correct :

No, incorrect. I have no clue where this place is, but it is not California.

Since pagey and me use to have many mini summits I see him a lot, wearing his hat. Although it is allways very clean and looks pretty new since he take much care of it, it allways looks perfect and natural on him. He never leaves the house without his hat.

I think there is no uniform formula to get the right Raiders hat if you're going to wear it. Of course, there are many neccesary details which you should have an eye on before ordering, bashing, etc. but since every person, head and -esspeccialy- face is different my idea of the right Raiders hat is as follows:
good hat, good bash, good and long wear. I think it is more important that the Raiders hat matches the person who wears it than the screen graps you like most.
On the other hand, you should compare your hat to the movie every now and than

I have to agree with Fedora. That mushroom effect is due totally to the distressing process. Any hat of a thin enough felt will bulge like that if crushed a few times, as it will crease along that are where it's slightly reinforced/supported by the ribbon and sweatband. Perhaps the sweatband was floded over as a "qucik fix" to make it tighter in the wind. It's great that 3k has done all he has to simulate what we see on screen, but I really doubt that much work or thought went into making the Raiders hat. They wanted it to look old and worn, so they stressed it a bit and that's what they ended up with. It is what is, but not due to any special design or planning. By a mix of the hat's components and materials alone we have a very unique hat that's nearly impossible to duplicate. But I don't think that's what they were trying to do.

With regard to Ford's head.... I've spent nearly as much time sculpting versions of Ford as 3k has spent making versions of the Raiders hat and I can tell you two things: Ford has an unnaturally sloped forehead. Also, he has large ears which also sit higher than most peoples' ears. Look at any profile shot and draw a line from the top of his ear to his brow. Then do the same with your own ears. You'll see what I mean. Ford's hat is not worn unnaturally high, his ears are.

It is what is, but not due to any special design or planning. By a mix of the hat's components and materials alone we have a very unique hat that's nearly impossible to duplicate. But I don't think that's what they were trying to do.

Exactly!! To me, it is obvious. I think any hatter would tell you the same thing, just by looking at the hat. Fedora

WOW

Man, those hats look great!

Judging by the pics, the 5.5" of the AB seems to match Indy's hat a bit better. However, they both look really dang cool!

Tone. .. Neither hat bulges in back like that Raiders hat. There's a fairly straight line, which in relation to the ribbon, actually indicates taper - no reverse taper. That bulge and backtilt on the Raiders hat, adds another 1/4 to 1/3 inch to the length of the top of the hat. If your 6 inch Fed was a quarter inch longer on top in the side view, the length to height ratio would be closer to the ABs. If your Fed was a size, size and a half too big, with a pleat, stuffing, and a cinched ribbon, you'd get that backbulge/ tilt. Then you might have the Raiders hat.

Another solution might be sitting on it Tone I bet my bottom that it would "bulge" back

BreinederIndy wrote:

Tycoonman wrote: That appears to be California Adventure, Adventure Trail if I am not mistaken. Correct :

I think there is no uniform formula to get the right Raiders hat if you're going to wear it. Of course, there are many neccesary details which you should have an eye on before ordering, bashing, etc. but since every person, head and -esspeccialy- face is different my idea of the right Raiders hat is as follows:
good hat, good bash, good and long wear. I think it is more important that the Raiders hat matches the person who wears it than the screen graps you like most.
On the other hand, you should compare your hat to the movie every now and than

I have to agree with that myself. It all boils down to what looks the best on your head and not how well it matches to the film.

I've been messing with my recently and hadn't turned it far enough so I re-bashed it and got the warped brim I want. My crown is not exactly like the films but it's just the way the hat fits on my head. I think if I owned an AB I'd probably wouldn't have as much trouble because I believe the felt isn't as thick as my Fed. Deluxe and I'd me able to mold it better......but I won't know that until I buy one.

I have to believe the extra steps 3thoubucks has gone to are not how they did the hat in the film. It can't be. If they would have spent that much time "working" that hat to do what all it does than it would have taken an extra year for them to make the film!

While I was sitting there messing with my own hat I started thinking what Ford could have done to the hat while on the set. I'm sure being bored on the set he messed with it alot like we all do when we hold our hats. I'm think ontop of the other stuff Ford's constant messing with it contributed to the "look".

The first thing I noticed is that when messing with it was when I squeezed the hat together from the sides while holding it the crown would "mushroom" out. When I put the hat back it obviously had tightened the fit but it also gave a further brim distortion that looked like his in the film from certain scenes. The problem was that it didn't hold because my hat's sweatband is still fairly loose. So I have to believe in order for the hat to stay on during filming they either tightened the ribbon, gave Ford a size smaller, taped it on or folded the sweatband. Add that to the thinner felt that was probably used on Ford's hat and the turn and you've got the look.

Pitfall Harry wrote:I have to believe the extra steps 3thoubucks has gone to are not how they did the hat in the film. It can't be. If they would have spent that much time "working" that hat to do what all it does than it would have taken an extra year for them to make the film!

Exactly. The first thing the costume designer would do, is start with a hat that actually fit Harrison Ford's head. When they went shopping for his hat, why would they pick one that was a couple sizes too big, when all they have to do is get one that is the right size? It is not the way that I shop for things, and I don't think they did either. This was long before the era of people wearing jeans that are so big that they hang down off the person's rear end.

I've put a little more sweat stuffing in the front and back, thinned it in the sides. Not as much side taper now. .. .... No stuffing? Look at the squareish corner half way up the ribbon. Fords head probably doesn't have a corner there, Looks a bit short for a sweat, and if it is a sweat, it must be quarter inch cowhide. I was re-reading this thread when I noticed the shadow half way up the ribbon of the bow side in this shot- I haven't done much shopping for vintage hats. The last one I bought 33 years ago. But I have found a folded newspaper and a folded handkerchief in two of the handfull I've examined.

Just do like Ford did. Use a paper towel to tighten the hat up and to assorb the sweat. That is what reportedly he did. Fedora

In my "Big Breakthough" thread, I said I used a length of 2 1/4 paper towels. Paper towels, tape, fabric, foam? HF probably knows. I doubt if it was used to soak up sweat, as it would probably be inside the sweat, maybe a double thick sweat due to being folded. I doubt they'd want to prevent sweat stains, since they painted sweat stains on the hat and coverd the hat with dirt. If there were folded paper towels between his head and the sweat, they'd probably be visible at times. How would they be kept in place? They probably couldn't be, effectively, so it's best to put stuffing inside the sweat.