Club Obi Wan

About two-three years ago, I got a 12 plait 6ft whip from David Morgan, and I'm now considering getting a bigger one. A: I'm much taller than I was then, and I just want to get a new one. :D So, a question to you whip experts, should I get a 10 ft, or an 8ft? I want the size Indy carried on his belt, the 6ft is just too short.

Also, what color should I get? I have a dark tan now, and I noticed Indy's is more lighter in color, any suggestions?

Thanks!

~Aaron

Not that I'm an expert... far from it, actually, but I'd go with the 10'. I believe it's the one most used in the films, and coiled on the belt. And to me, going from a 6' to an 8' doesn't seem like it'd be that much of a jump in size. Just my 2 cents.

Mike

An 8 footer is my recommendation. It's more versatile than a 10. You can do multiple whip cracking with an 8, but with a 10 you are just stuck with doing long throws, wraps, simple stuff. The 8 gives you more reportoire, plus it's better for target work vs. the 10. The 8 footer looks real good on the belt, so you get the look. As far as color, go with the natural. Let it age gracefully to that nice mahogony patina. You can also use the brown pecard conditioner to darken it, but that is just an option for you. Plus I am convinced that the Cairo Street Whip Scene, was an 8 footer. The clues were the action is far too fast for a 10 footer, plus I measured the whip on a picture and my calculations showed it was an 8.

Hope this helps.

-Sergei

Sergei wrote:...plus I measured the whip on a picture and my calculations showed it was an 8.

Ha! That's interesting. It's not that I doubt you but I am just curious as to what you used as a scale or point of reference.

Thanks,
Pyroxene

Hah! Thanks for all your suggestions guys, I think I will go with an 8 footer, I've used a 10 foot stock whip, but even it was hard to use, and it was a stock whip! So I think a natural Tan, 10ft. whip will be my next buy.

Thanks for all your help!

~Aaron

Pyroxene wrote:

Sergei wrote:...plus I measured the whip on a picture and my calculations showed it was an 8.

Ha! That's interesting. It's not that I doubt you but I am just curious as to what you used as a scale or point of reference.

Thanks,
Pyroxene

This analysis was posted last year on the old COW. TOJ posted the picture (see below) and posed the length question. So here is the analysis below.

The following is the reference picture:

I printed the picture. I decided to use the "width" of the bag strap, the "width" of the hat ribbon, to determine the ratio, since I knew those measurements. I then cut a piece of string and measured from the end of the handle to the end of the "braided" part of the whip. Once I calculated the ratio with the known objects, I measure the piece of string and viola, the string came out to be 8 feet with the calculated ratio.

I also studied the cracking done for that scene. Although it's probable to perform that scene with a 10 footer, I still think that fast action can only be done with a 8 footer.

-Sergei

That is an awesome pic! I haven't seen that one before. I love the whip and the hat and the shoes. I want Joe Jr. to make me a hat like that. I digress...


Neat pic. Thanks for sharing.

Pyro.

I have a real " stunt whip " from Last crusade, and it is a 8 ft !...

doc riviere wrote:I have a real " stunt whip " from Last crusade, and it is a 8 ft !...

Wow! That's awesome. I would love to see some pics.

In regards to the pic Sergei posted above, remember that Ford is about 6 feet tall. I'm thinking that the length of a whip is measured from the end of the fall (or is it thong?) to the handle or something like that. Anyway, look at the length of the whip in regards to Ford's height (with a few inches knocked off due to hat height). I'm inclined as well to think the whip pictured may be an 8 footer.

Pyroxene,

I talk about my original whip already in the old COW, but it seems that nobody is interested (or beleive me !? ) so i never talk about it and others originals props i have... to be discreet with that kind of thing is better for me !! :wink:

I bought it in Christie's auction in 1993
I cant post pic here, but i can send you pic if you want to post it in a new topic !?

Thanks
Regards from France

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:In regards to the pic Sergei posted above, remember that Ford is about 6 feet tall. I'm thinking that the length of a whip is measured from the end of the fall (or is it thong?) to the handle or something like that. Anyway, look at the length of the whip in regards to Ford's height (with a few inches knocked off due to hat height). I'm inclined as well to think the whip pictured may be an 8 footer.

I measured the whip from the end of the handle to the end of the braided part. Which is not including the fall or the visible cracker. So my ratio computation does not include the fall or the cracker, which is the proper way to measure a whip (braided portion only). To me and I think what ITG is concluding, the whip is clearly an 8 footer.

-Sergei

doc riviere wrote:Pyroxene,

I talk about my original whip already in the old COW, but it seems that nobody is interested (or beleive me !? ) so i never talk about it and others originals props i have... to be discreet with that kind of thing is better for me !! :wink:

I bought it in Christie's auction in 1993
I cant post pic here, but i can send you pic if you want to post it in a new topic !?

Thanks
Regards from France

Doc Riviere,
I am definitely interested in your purchase of your whip at the Christie's auction. I bow in your general direction. I am currently updating our main portion of Indygear with verified whips that were used in the movies. As you know I posted an article earlier this year on a finding of such a whip. I would like to discuss your whip and post a similar article on your whip from the auction win. I am open to documenting all whips that were used in the movies. Expect an email from me soon.

-Sergei

Sergei wrote:I measured the whip from the end of the handle to the end of the braided part. Which is not including the fall or the visible cracker. So my ratio computation does not include the fall or the cracker, which is the proper way to measure a whip (braided portion only).

Well, based on the proper way to measure a bullwhip, there's no way that whip could be a 10 footer. I'd eve be almost inclined to think it's a 7 footer if TOJ hadn't done his scale test using the bag and ribbon width.

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:

Sergei wrote:I measured the whip from the end of the handle to the end of the braided part. Which is not including the fall or the visible cracker. So my ratio computation does not include the fall or the cracker, which is the proper way to measure a whip (braided portion only).

Well, based on the proper way to measure a bullwhip, there's no way that whip could be a 10 footer. I'd eve be almost inclined to think it's a 7 footer if TOD hadn't done his scale test using the bag and ribbon width.

Well we know that David Morgan didn't make any 7 footers. And to be clear, "The Other Jones" posted the picture last year with the question. I then did the scale test identifying the bag strap and ribbon width to calculate the ratio's. The only slippery slope was making the assumption that the angle of the whip was directly in the same plane as the camera. But I think that was a safe assumption. The whole calculation would have been thrown off, if the angle of the whip was not in the same plane of the camera. That would of required more fancy math.

On the issue of Morgan not making 7 footers:

It's quite obvious to us all that the Indy whip was some what differant from the ones you buy. The one used in the filmed had a differant shape to the handle, if you'll notice the monkey fist on one of the whips used in the film was much bigger to the ones you buy today:

http://www.indygear.com/gear/images/raiders_whip_5.jpg

The whip seen in the film could have been custom made, and cut to a 7 footer, but that woulnd't make sense. But this right here: http://www.indygear.com/gear/whip.shtml is proof enough for me to buy an 8 foot. As you can see in the page above, that's an accutally bullwhip used in the film, and it's an 8 footer, don't see any reason not to get one. :)

Anyway, thought I'd add that in...

Thanks again for all your help guys!

~Aaron

Actually we have had this discussion numerous times on the differences between what Morgan made over 20 years ago and the current versions.

First of all, the whips ordered by the prop department ranged in lengths from 6, 8, 10 and 12 footers. David made about 30 of those whips in those assorted lengths. As far a cutting down a whip to a 7 footer, there is just no reason to do that either for filming, whipping, etc. Just no reason at all.

The differences in the contruction from 20 years ago to now are such:
- the heel knot is more bulbous 20 years ago
- the knot on the handle were 8 inches on the mark vs. about 6 3/4" now
- the strands were cut a bit narrower 20 years ago vs. now

The whip you mentioned at the Indygear site was a whip I actually found that was used for the filming. I measured the entire whip using a caliper accurate to 1/64" and posted some of the major element changes at the old COW. In addition I took those picutres and posted them. In fact, my plan was to resurrect that entire post , and attach that article along with the posted pictures at the main IndyGear site.

-Sergei

I would say the whip is an 8-footer since you can see the point where it touches the ground and then goes behind Ford for 10 inches or so. This would indicate the whip is coming from slightly behind him and the arc of the whip would be different than if it were straight to the side as it first appears. Just my .02.

Sergei wrote:and posted some of the major element changes at the old COW. In addition I took those picutres and posted them. In fact, my plan was to resurrect that entire post , and attach that article along with the posted pictures at the main IndyGear site.

-Sergei

Are the old posts still available for view? If so, where might one find them?

Thanks for your help!

Sergei wrote:And to be clear, "The Other Jones" posted the picture last year with the question.

Oops my bad. I knew I was typing about TOJ, but I guess "D" came off my fingers instead of "J", probably because I'm more used to seeing TOD (in reference to Temple of Doom). I'm gonna go fix my mistake. Thanks for pointing that out, Sergei.

Hey, nice to see this pic resurface here! I, too, think the whip is an 8-footer.

I agree it is probably an 8 foot in the picture. In my opinion 10 foot whips look better hanging from the belt but if you intend to use them the shorter whip is much more versatile and easier to crack. For me this outweighs the belt factor.

Good luck, Bill Walton