Club Obi Wan

Ok guys, I just got off the phone with the chap who made the Lucas Film walkthrough, and he is sending me a copy of this original vhs tape, that he has put on dvd now. I figure, I may include a copy with all new hat orders, if you want one. Of course, I will have to wait until it gets here, and I buy some dvds in order to do so. Now, back to Indy hats. He shared with me lots of info regarding the hat, and his meeting with Mr. Swales. We talked about block shapes, and how his 1984 Poet was a different block shape than what came later, and some info that he gleaned from Swales. He also told me that the original Raiders fedora that he saw was so distressed that the hat was green, and the ribbon purple. Shades of the Akubra regular Federation!! So, the Raiders hat apparently had a green undertone to it. Now, that is some great info!! I asked him to join in here so he could share, with you, directly from the horses mouth what he knows. This fellow is a wealth of knowledge. My knowledge increased expoentially with our conversation. Regards, Fedora

Great to hear this, Fedora. Boy, it would be great to have such a source on this site. Almost as good as having Peter in the Jacket section! BTW, if I were to order a Bogey fedora from you (which I hope to someday) would I be able to get a copy of that DVD with it, even if I'm not buying an Indy hat? :junior: -IJ

I want one. So the 1984 Poet (Temple of Doom) was different than what followed? As the 1980 Poet was different from the 1984? Oh, this piques my interest greatly!

incredible information Steve, thank you a lot for sharing them with us... do you think I could get a copy of that dvd?

I would pay shipping and the blank dvd of course

Wow that's really cool having got to talk to this guy Steve.

If you get the DVD before you send my AB could I please have a copy...amongst other things (You know) lol.

If it doesn't arrive in time I am happy to pay for the DVD and shipping like Erri:)

Regards Mate
TAZ

Ragingblues wrote:Steve,

What a great way to get all your existing customers to buy a second AB as well!

Ken

He's a sly one that Fedora.

I'll buy the dvd if it comes with a free hat.

Bufflehead Jones wrote:I'll buy the dvd if it comes with a free hat.

Okay, but the discounted COW member price is $250 per DVD.

Dang Jerry, that sounds like a great deal to me. I think I'll take a gray one.

Okay, but don't be surprised if it looks a little brown when you first take it out of the box. But it's really grey. You can trust me.

Peaks my interest as well.

So, who is this chap and how does he know so much? I've heard alot about this video since I forst started here years ago and have always been interested. I'm in for a copy as well, Steve, if you decide to go that route. Just shoot me a pm if you decide to do so.

Let's just hope we give him a FRIENDLY welcome!

As long as he doesn't show up and say 'I have all kinds of stuff I could show you that would clear a lot of things up....but I'm not going to....', we'll stay friendly.

Regards! Michaelson

Hey guys, he has registered here so he can post, and is waiting on being approved. I will let him answer the questions when he gets here. He did say something interesting this morning via email. He said that Swales told him the hat was sprayed with diluted bleach!!!! A distressing technique? I know it would really lighten the hat up.

On the dvds, I was not trying to entice you guys to buy another hat!! I knocked off a few bucks on his hat order in order to get myself a copy on dvd, and just thought I could make copies(if I can figure out how to do it on this pc) and give it away. Of course, if anyone wants a copy, you do not have to buy a hat!! :lol:I can send out a copy and let anyone who wants to, make their own copy and then mail the original to another fan. It would get expensive if I had to buy the blank dvds and then mail it out. Especially in tax season. I have never got a refund in my life!! I always owe Uncle Sam. regards, Fedora

what's the bleach sorry?
:post: thanks to Agent5 who was SOOOOOOOO kind to tell me that without avoiding to be very "nice" with me. thanks

of course moderators can delete this post, i dont complain.. like other users do

Can't wait til John gets here!! I know we will needle him to death. He is one of a few who has actually seen the Raiders fedora, and is also the chap who first discovered who made the hats-HJ. He told Lee Keppler, and Lee started importing and selling, years ago. Our Administrator had one of these early HJs, and I used it to arrive at my block shape a few years ago. John also has some intersting info on the way Hj used to make their hats. But, I will let him tell the stories. From what I can gather, HJ still had the Raiders block shape, when TOD was made. Gosh, I want to just spill out all that he told me. We probably talked for over an hour on the phone, very little about the hat I was making him, as I would not let him place his order, due to my ceaseless questions!! Wait a minute, you guys would have done the same!!! It is not often you get to talk to someone who has actually seen the item, along with all of the rest of the Lucas archives. We will be getting inside info. Fedora

That's almost about as first hand as you can get!

Bleach? What is bleach? Sorry.


Erri, you are welcome. It just gets old, dude.

Fedora wrote:He did say something interesting this morning via email. He said that Swales told him the hat was sprayed with diluted bleach!!!! A distressing technique? I know it would really lighten the hat up.

Well that explains that gray hat with brown underones we keep seeing in the clipper scene.

Fedora wrote:Of course, if anyone wants a copy, you do not have to buy a hat!!

Sigh...you're just too nice, Steve.

agent5 wrote:Bleach? What is bleach? Sorry.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bleach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach

Thanks, VP, but my comments were totally in jest.

Now, I'd love to hear all about this fedora.

I doubt they'd have sprayed the Clipper hat w/ bleach cuz' it needed no distressing. That was a dress hat.

Whoops sorry, apparently I didn't read all posts well enough.

agent5 wrote:I doubt they'd have sprayed the Clipper hat w/ bleach cuz' it needed no distressing. That was a dress hat.

That's my impression as well, that the bleach-spraying was not to change a color, so much as to speckle it a bit as a way of distressing it. (Kind of like speckling different colors of paint onto the flats on a stage set to give them a bit more solid look, instead of flat solid colors.)

Can't wait to hear the details, though, we could be guessing wrong.

And the thing is, no hatter would ever use bleach on fur. It breaks it down, but would certainly lighten the browns up. I found this out with my Federation a few years back. I mixed up some bleach to clean some vinyl siding on my house, and of course the hat caught the overspray. I ended up with spots of the most beautiful medium brown color!! It really lightened up the Fed, to where I was tempted to just spray the whole hat!! So, the bleach was used apparently to distress and lighten up. I am just guessing here. That might mean the hat needed to be a lighter brown than the original sable color? Hurry up John, I hear you are approved to post now. Let the party begin! Fedora

want one. So the 1984 Poet (Temple of Doom) was different than what followed? As the 1980 Poet was different from the 1984? Oh, this piques my interest greatly!

I think what he told me was, the 84 hat was the same block as the Raiders.(or at least what he bought from HJ) Perhaps they changed in the interim. I dunno. He brought up some very interesting things on the block of the hat. A 3 step process, or sorts. It was new to me, as I had never heard of it before. I better wait on him so we can get it from the horses mouth. He met Mr Swales, as I said, back a few years ago, and I am sure he has some great info for us. He did say that particular HJ came with a 3 1/8 brim, the Poet, and it shrunk up to 2 7/8, over time. Also, that one of the stunt hats was a 7 5/8. Your size Dakota. Fedora

Indiana Jerry wrote:

agent5 wrote:I doubt they'd have sprayed the Clipper hat w/ bleach cuz' it needed no distressing. That was a dress hat.

That's my impression as well, that the bleach-spraying was not to change a color, so much as to speckle it a bit as a way of distressing it. (Kind of like speckling different colors of paint onto the flats on a stage set to give them a bit more solid look, instead of flat solid colors.)

Can't wait to hear the details, though, we could be guessing wrong.

It was a joke guys, a joke!

J_Weaver wrote:It was a joke guys, a joke!

Yep, but it did start a discussion. Now you understand the power of the farce...

Indiana Jerry wrote:

J_Weaver wrote:It was a joke guys, a joke!

Yep, but it did start a discussion. Now you understand the power of the farce...

Rats, foiled again! :evil:

Bufflehead Jones wrote:Dang Jerry, that sounds like a great deal to me. I think I'll take a gray one.

Why does the color of the DVD matter??

I wouldn't mind a copy of this one too, but I will let you know in the future when perhaps I will be ordering an AB--The Fed and I have been on so many adventures, I'd hate to lose it now, and may put it in my own personal "Archives".

Cheers
Craig

Also, that one of the stunt hats was a 7 5/8. Your size Dakota

Aha!! Thanks, Fedora. Just send that dvd my way and I'll happily make my own copy. And pass it on.

I'll like to be on that list for the DVD.

Hey, gang! And thanks for the cool intro, Steve. I am WAY looking forward to that hat.

First of all, if anyone here was at the 1984 World Science Fiction convention in Anaheim, CA they saw one of the hero Raiders hats. It was part of a Star Wars/Indy/etc. Lucasfilm display under the supervision of then Lucasfilm archivist David Craig. And one of the reasons I remember the hat so clearly is that I was blown away by the color and VERY uneven brim. According to Craig (and later Mr. Swales of HJ) the hat had been lightly sprayed with a diluted bleach. It caused the color to fade into a lighter, greener brown. Also, the ribbon went a little toward purple in its lighter color. I believe we can see this very well in the full length promo picture of Harrison Ford "whipping" at us against a white background. The hat had that very cruel pinch down the center front but the top bash had been pushed in all around in a somewhat random way. Clearly the hat was kind of floppy because it sat flat on a surface with the brim pancaked down all around it with no buckling whatsoever. Not only that, I was VERY amazed at how uneven the brim was. The sides were certainly narrower but there was less care given to the tapering from lesser width to greater width. Very "wonky" in a way (would fit right in with the asymmetry of a Vader or stormtrooper helmet!).

Now, I have an HJ over here that . . . drumroll . . . I have sprayed with diluted bleach and got the SAME colors. I will send Steve some pictures to post as I am having trouble lately with posting. I will put it next to my HJ Last Crusade hat from 1989 so that you can all see the color difference. It is rather striking.

Now, on that Lucasfilm archive visit I failed to find any ROTLA hats like the one I saw. Everything was HJ brown and more like LAST CRUSADE. You will see in the dvd and I'm sure Steve will post some screen caps (Steve?) of what he deems to be the most "telling" shots. Its not crystal clear but much better than the VHS dupes that have been floating around.

Funny - I can recall the day when David Craig read to me over the phone the HJ contact info. from the inside of the hat. I immediately ordered one (1984) and later told Lee Keppler who then got one of his own.

And hello to anyone out here from the RPF. Yes, I am more of a Vader nut than anything but hats are great too. I have some cool Western hats and such floating around here and its all much fun.

Also, the gray hat in the Clipper plane was indeed gray. Swales told me that they made gray and brown for Jones. Also, on the inside of every HJ movie hat there was IJ embossed in gold on the leather. When visiting Swales in London at the store in 1986 he told me that the movie hats had been sprayed with diluted bleach and that the insane pinch was put in using the "machine" he had on premesis. In later years he mentioned to me that the company they had been using was screwing up in two ways - they were using lesser fur and just stretching out smaller sizes to make bigger ones. Sheesh! That is why they got rid of that company, one they had been using for a very very long time, and switched to another. However, at the same time, Swales claimed to have located the old blocks and assured me that they were in use. This was in the late 90's or so.

This latter bit has me confused as others on this board have been even more recently assured it seems that the old blocks have been again rediscovered. Weird, huh? They either have them or they don't. How can they find them and then find them? Plus, the HJ that I bought and sprayed with bleach in 1998 or so looks perfect in shape. You'll see pics. in the near future.

But I have not seen a new HJ hat in a while. They are gorgeous but shrink too fast for what I put them through. My upcoming AB is going to get worked over pretty good (soaked, roasted, etc.) so get ready for some awesome "aging" shots after some time has passed.

My Last Crusade HJ has even been in the ocean but survived quite nicely.

It shrank but I stretched it back out. Have been working with hats for a few years now and own an antique, domed stretcher. GREAT investment.

Okay, this is getting wordy.

Welcome to the madness! WOW, That was extremely informative! Thanks! I look forward to the pics!!

darthjones,

Welcome to the Club and thank you for the great rundown.

I would now prepare myself for the barage of questions you will probably soon receive

Cheers,
John

VERY informative Darthjones, great to have such a well-informed member joining. Welcome to COW! :junior: -IJ

DarthJones, that wasn't too bad for a first post....just kidding.

Welcome Darth Jones!

I was at the 1984 World Con in Anaheim but didn't see the hat you mentioned. Must have been too busy with "V" stuff. *g*

~R

Oh, hey Ron. I thought you were there but all I can remember is that supersize, 3 foot across Vader helmet on costume night. That and Sandy and Marco hanging out at Marco's booth.

By the way - Lucasfilm would not allow people to take photos of their stuff. Aaaagh!

Oh, forgot to add - thanks for the greetings everybody! Glad to be here. Its not like I'm dating anyone so the forum seems like the proper place to be.

Right?

And my name is John. You can use John or darthjones or whatever. Its just that every time I pick John as a user name the sites suggest "that username is already taken but we suggest John0022394848."

So darthjones has become the title.

welcome aboard, and tahnks for sharing this all with us. can't wait to see those pics.

Welcome aboard and thanks for the info!

John welcome on board, with your first message you wiped out YEARS of neverending discussions (such for GREY HATS) I'm sure the guys around here will ask you many questions, you're the man we needed !
Very pleased to meet you.

Best regards

Erri Wan

Now this could get VERY interesting. Welcome aboard John, now polish those typing digits and proceed

Hello, and welcome to the fun, John! I've had a copy of your 'work' for many years, received from our mutual friend Lee Keppler WAY back when.

Not sure what took you so long to finally find us, but you're almost a veteran with most of this crowd.

High regards, and glad you're finally here!!

Michaelson

Now THIS is good news! Something new to talk about and more things comming to light! Welcome!

bink

Thanks again, all! And Michaelson - what happened to Lee? Is he around? I hope he is doing well.

I have just been busy I guess as far as knowing all this was even going on out here.

And I have a gray HJ Jones but it is at a friend's house. I'll try and get that back if he hasn't lost it.

Will get on those other pics. this coming Wed. I think.

By the way, you can all see my own artwork at www.johnbrosio.com

Very American subject matter - you'll see.

Lee's on the road constantly, he told me. He's traveling to gun shows all over the Southwest now, but can be reached by cell phone just about anytime.

Regards! Michaelson

darthjones wrote:Also, the gray hat in the Clipper plane was indeed gray. Swales told me that they made gray and brown for Jones.

Yes, but was it gray with brown undertones, or brown with gray undertones.

darthjones wrote:Also, the gray hat in the Clipper plane was indeed gray. Swales told me that they made gray and brown for Jones..

THANK you, John. Swales told me the exact same thing in the late 80's, and yet when I've posted this information all these years, I've been either ignored, or it's been debated to death, and no one believed me. I very much appreciate you taking the time to give credance to something I've posted for almost a decade now, and yet has never been considered a fact. You've just slammed that door shut, and it's more appreciated than you can EVER realize.

Thank you again.

HIGH regards!

Michaelson