Club Obi Wan

Hey folks,

My experience with bullwhips has been limited to the QM and the Canada Summit, and it was enough to whet my appetite.

I've parused the various vendors we have here, and my hat is off to all of them, there are some great selections. And therein lies my problem!

I know (roughly) how to crack. I want a whip that will cost less then about 250 USD, made of something rugged that can take some abuse. Also, I want it to be a whip that will suit a guy who only casually uses it most of the time, but does want to get really good with it.

The IOAB looks good, and after trying Greg's, I love the crack I can get out of it. But, if I'm going to hang it on my wall for prop use, I'd like something that looks a bit more screen-accurate, perhaps an 8 or 12 plait. From reading the archives, it seems that an 8 or 9 footer should do me just fine and is a good compromise.

I'd like to hear what members think--For my price range, what leather should I be looking for and from which vendor? If there is a topic in the archives about this already, I apologize--I looked, but couldn't find it.

Cheers
Craig

I bought a swivel handle from Lammle's Western Wear for $25. That's as much of a 'beater' as you can get. I've even lit it on fire a few times.

It all depends on how high end you wanna go. Those IOAB whips look pretty sweet, especially for the price.

I'm diggin' the nylon whips a whole lot though. No worries about using th ePecards or anything. They're nice for all weather and handle like a leather one.

I'm diggin' the nylon whips a whole lot though. No worries about using th ePecards or anything. They're nice for all weather and handle like a leather one.

snakewhip, how does the nylon whips feal in your hands. compared to the leather one's? weight and texture?

I'm not sure how jabahutt70/Steve made my new nylon bullwhip, but it's got really nice weight and balance. It cracks like a dream.

'Lash' Dittmer made me a really nice snakewhip and to give it weight, he made a shot filled bolster inside, but not only that, he 'milked' BB shot down the cores of each strand of the 'inner whip', so every cord had a long stack of BB's inside for weight. That whip cracks if you just look at it the right way.

The weights of both these nylon whips are comparable to leather whips, and as for the texture... I dunno... it's "shoe lacey" (no relation to Ronald). Though the strands or parachute cord are braided so finely and tightly, that they lay flat like strips of hide.

Some people coat their nylon whips in some kind of soft wax - and I can see that making one look and feel more leathery, but I haven't 'weatherproofed' mine that way as yet.

Hey Craig,

From what you said that you wanted and in the price range that you mentioned, I think you should look around at kangaroo hide whips from the various whip makers.

You said that you wanted screen accuracy. The whips on screen were natural tan roohide. It is the best, that's why the high end whips are roohide. They start out almost white looking, but darken to a golden tan and then to a medium to dark brown. At all the stages, they look great.

There are several whip makers that should have a whip in the eight foot size in roo in your price range. Just let them know that you want one as screen accurate as possible. There are several vendors here that can make a very screen accurate whip for you.

I suggested eight foot as it is a good compromise between ease of use, especially for a beginner and the way it looks as a screen accurate prop. I can do any crack with a ten footer that I can with an eight footer, but the ten footer is a little slower and for a beginner the eight footer would be easier to learn with. When Harrison Ford carried a whip on his belt, it was a ten footer, but when he was going to use the whip as in the streets of Cairo, he used an eight footer.

You also mentioned that you wanted to have a whip that could take some abuse and would have some durability. Kangaroo hide is so desirable due to its tensile strength and abrasion resistance for its size and weight.

I would shop around and check with the vendors to see what their price would be for an eight foot, screen accurate, Indy style, bullwhip in natural tan. Once you get the prices, I would buy one from the vendor that you feel most comfortable with that meets your price.

Good luck in your search and I hope to see you cracking it like a pro at the Finger Lakes summit. Maybe, you'll even let an old guy like me try to give it a crack or two.

I really enjoy my Indy on a Budget whip. I'll probably be going to whip purgatory for what I've done to it, but it has held up great. At 110$ USD, it works great for me. 8 and 12 plait whips are going to cost you more, and add onto that using roo hide, it makes it more expensive. I mean, the main reason I went with the IOAB is the fact that it's a tough hide, and made for cracking. Man oh man do I get some LOUD cracks with that thing when I do the overhead crack (the only one I can do).

Are there really any good roo hide 8-12 plait whips for less than 300$? I saw an EC roohide whip go on ebay for less than 250 recently .. what a steal!

I agree that the IOAB is a great whip for the money. But, he said his budget was about two and a half times the price of an IOAB. That puts him into the roohide range.

He also said that he has cracked an IOAB, and wanted something a little more screen accurate.

I was just trying to give him some advice and steer him towards something that met his criteria that he laid out.

There has been a recent development that has seen some IOAB whips made out of a lighter color leather that may be a little more screen accurate. If I remember correctly, the leather is a little thinner and it may affect its durability a small amount. I think these whips are too new for us to really have much feedback on at this time. But, this may be an option worth looking into.

snakewhip,thanks for the respounse and information.

Hi Craig,

You'd be hard pressed to find a good kangaroo Indy whip for $250, unless it was a 'steal' off of Ebay.

Most 'roo whips are $300+. An 8 footer from me, 12-plait kangaroo hide, is $320.

With you're price range, I'd stear you towards an 8-plait cowhide bullwhip. I've made 12-plait cowhide whips before, though with the selection of cowhide nowadays I'm a bigger fan of the 8-plait whips as they are better suited to the thicker, stronger cowhide.

Right now my price on 8-plait whips is $15 per foot, plus $10 for the wrist loop. However, my cowhide is getting more expensive and I'll soon have to raise my prices to those of most other whipmakers in the $20-$25 per foot range.

Regards,

Adam, www.winrichwhips.com

giovanni celeste just got his website up and running he's having specials on Indy whips they look really pretty too check them out http://giowhips.myray.org

For a while, I had an 8 foot, 12 plait cowhide Indy whip from Adam Winrich, (I needed some cash and sold it to someone on the forum, but can't remember who.)

It LOOKED like the Raiders whip, (big butt knot, darker transition knot, nice smooth overlay and steady taper,) threw like a Morgan, (when I bought it, I cracked it, and then the Morgan that Adam based it on. As close as you're going to get with cowhide! He'd left the bolsters out for the sake of weight, and it rolled out fairly well!) and it was a really sturdy, rugged whip.

I suggest talking to Adam. The IOAB's are good for beginning, but if you want something that's really going to look good in a display, and really kick up your cracking a notch, go with one of the nicer cow or deer hides. For the price you're willing to pay, it's worth it.

Good luck!

-Dan

winrichwhips wrote: You'd be hard pressed to find a good kangaroo Indy whip for $250, unless it was a 'steal' off of Ebay.

Most 'roo whips are $300+. An 8 footer from me, 12-plait kangaroo hide, is $320.

$320 is in the $250 RANGE. I tend to round up when I shop, too.

Well, I bought my whip from Western Stage Props. It's a 12 plait 8ft Natural Tan Kangaroo Hide Indy Bullwhip. The total cost was $407.00 and some change. It's a great whip if your looking to spend some cash. I heard nothing but great things about the place before I purchased my whip. I'm not sure which of the whip makers there made my whip. A few people have told me different things and my whip tag had the initials R.S on it.

I will say this though IF I wouldn't have been so dead set at buying the one from WSP I could have bought a whip from Winrich and saved myself some money and gotten the same high quality.

Here is a pic of my whip.

Shameless self promotion! I say let the person do his/her homework first. He or she will come to who's right for them. If not, it's because not enough homework was done.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Craig, It’s good to have a variety of whip makers to choose from, but it does make it difficult sometimes with whom to choose. I have no doubt you’ll find one of the skilled whip makers here willing to work with you and build you the perfect bullwhip for you, but like Adam said these days you’re going to be hard pressed to find a high quality 12 plait 8-foot kangaroo hide bullwhip for $250. If you do, let me know where I might want to buy one too. A few do come up on eBay now and then at that price but you have to be careful as some look better then they actually are.

Forum member Bernardo makes and sells a very nice 8-plait cowhide version of the Indy bullwhip though Western Stage Props. He uses a high quality cowhide called kip and at just over $200.00 for an 8-foot whip it might be just what your looking for durability, look and price wise. He also makes a very fine 12-plait Indy style bullwhips from the same cow hide though I don’t know his current price or if he has a waiting list. See the viewtopic.php?t=16043 thread for more information and photos. I don’t have one, however, several forum members do and I have heard good things. In addition I know both Jim (ECWhips) and Adam (WinrichWhips) Have made these 8 plait Indy bullwhips as well for customers as well, you have a few good choices if you decide to go this direction.

I'm not sure which of the whip makers there made my whip. A few people have told me different things and my whip tag had the initials R.S on it.

PitFall with the over all look of your bullwhip, the very fine, smooth plaiting along with being dropped to an 8 plait point, I think its safe to say RS = whip maker Russell Schultz.

Dan

Well, I bought my whip from Western Stage Props. It's a 12 plait 8ft Natural Tan Kangaroo Hide Indy Bullwhip. The total cost was $407.00 and some change. It's a great whip if your looking to spend some cash. I heard nothing but great things about the place before I purchased my whip. I'm not sure which of the whip makers there made my whip. A few people have told me different things and my whip tag had the initials R.S on it.

I will say this though IF I wouldn't have been so dead set at buying the one from WSP I could have bought a whip from Winrich and saved myself some money and gotten the same high quality.

Here is a pic of my whip.

Hi Pitfall,

Dan is right, that is definitely a Russel Schultze whip you have there. I meant to reply to the post you had when you first got it, but I forgot.

Nice Whip

And Craig,

Good luck with the descision, there are a lot of fine whipmakers to choose from. My advice is to really try to look at and try out whips from all the different makers that you can, and base your descision off of that. And when you find the one you like, if it costs more than the $250 of your price range, save up for another month and get the one you really want. If you base your descision mainly on price then you can end up not getting what you expect, or worse. If price range is an issue that can't be solved by saving up a bit more then I would suggest Bernardo or Adam for the cowhides. I've seen enough of both of their work to recomend them in 8 or 12 plait. And as it has been stated, you would have a really hard time finding a kangaroo hide whip, especially a new kangaroo hide whip in the length you want for under $325, maybe $300. With the drought in australia causing a rise in the price of kangaroo, inflation, etc..., the price of whips have been increasing a bit in the past couple years. I know an 8 foot 12 plait Indy's going rate was about $350 from retailers about 3 or 4 years ago. By the end of this year it'll probobly be around $415 or so.

Good Luck and let us know what you decide on. If you're really having some trouble you could put a poll up from your 3 top choices and see which everyone else thinks you should go for. Just an Idea.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Hi Craig, I can tell you that I own a Giovanni Celeste whip and WOW it's really great. There is a special offer till 31st of March (tomorrow) for his 12 plait indiana jones bullwhips viewtopic.php?t=16831

plus you can find the prices of his 6 plait indy whip here with some pictures
viewtopic.php?t=16843

a quick quote of the prices...

this about the 6 plait indy whip, called Little Raiders

8ft - € 80 (about $96)
10ft - € 100 (about $120)
12ft - € 120 (about $144)

and this about the 12 plait indy whip called Raiders Bullwhip

giovanniceleste wrote:As I already wrote, the prices for the RAIDERS BULLWHIP are so reduced:
12 plait Cowhide or Calf skin:
5ft € 130 ---> € 110 (about $130)
6ft € 150 ---> € 120 (about $140)
8ft € 180 ---> € 150 (about $180)
10ft € 230 --> € 200 (about $240)
12ft € 270 --> € 240 (about $290)

12 plait Kangaroo hide:
5ft € 220 ---> € 200 (about $240)
6ft € 250 ---> € 230 (about $275)
8ft € 270 ---> € 250 (about $300)
10ft € 330 --> € 310 (about $370)
12ft € 370 --> € 350 (about $440)
_________________________________

There are 4 orders still available and 1 day left.

For who didn't see my website I want to remind that every whip come with 1 additional fall and 6 crackers free.

Postal prices (registered mail):
€6.80 for Europe
€8.40 for America, Asia and Africa ($10)
€8.60 Australia

Payment: paypal, western union.

Bernardo has just made a 12plt 9ft Indy whip for me. I'll be posting a review when it arrives.

BullWhipBorton wrote: PitFall with the over all look of your bullwhip, the very fine, smooth plaiting along with being dropped to an 8 plait point, I think its safe to say RS = whip maker Russell Schultz.

Dan

midwestwhips wrote:

Hi Pitfall,

Dan is right, that is definitely a Russel Schultze whip you have there. I meant to reply to the post you had when you first got it, but I forgot.

Nice Whip

And Craig,

Ok, I think someone mentioned that before when I first posted pics of my whip.

There is another thread in this forum that has pics of two whips together and the second whip is a Strain and it looks almost indentical to mine except it's darker. Did Russel Schultze work under Joe Strain or vice versa?

Thanks again for the info guys.

Russel is older than Joe, and maybe has been working longer. I know Russel and Joe have met, and it was Russel that gave Joe some advice on improving his whips.

Yes, the styles of whip look very similar, and I think that's because thats the way Western Stage Props orders them.

-Adam

EDITED TO ADD: Ah! Bumped Me!

Russell is Australian, and has been making whips for seemingly eons. You got a deal on that whip, as the OTHER whips that Western Stage Props sells by Schultz, (his stockwhips and bullwhips of the John Brady signature series,) are more expensive than that.

Joe Strain is out of Washington, and learned a lot from Morgan, (like Paul Stenhouse.)

I don't think that Russell and Joe have much in common other than perhaps a mutual admiration, and fantastic talent. Though I must say that several other Schultz whips I've seen VERY closely resemble Joe's LoneStar design. Who came first, I don't know. Paul Nolan would ;-)

Take care!

-Dan

Wow.

I feel like I should frame the whip now after reading that. It's nice to know someone of that cailber made this whip.

Of course there is no real way I can resist using this whip as much as possible and I don't think he'd want it any other way!

Paul_Stenhouse wrote:Shameless self promotion! I say let the person do his/her homework first. He or she will come to who's right for them. If not, it's because not enough homework was done.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

I was always that kid who hated homework That's why I asked you guys to do it for me j/k

All of you great people wrote:a TON of useful advice!!

Thanks so much for all the replies folks! Extremely useful information that would have been nearly impossible to compile on my own!

So far, it looks like I'm going to go with a Cowhide, 8 or 12 plait, 8 footer. I think for the price/durability, and given that I probobly would be hard pressed to tell the difference in leather even if the animal were still wearing it, it should suit my needs nicely. I'll mull over it in Poli Sci class today (while others get my homework ) and let you guys know what I decide!

Cheers
Craig

I've got an 8' 12 plait roo from Paul Nolan (MidWestWhips) and it's very nice. So nice I'm geting another one pretty soon!

Hi Pitfall,

Actually Russels whips are a bit smoother, he is very precise in his cutting and tapering, and I believe he splits his strands thinner. Also, he bevels both of the underside corners of the strands which lets them sit in together more neatly, and all of those things put together can give a finer, smoother, dense whip.

Russel and Joe met at the WWAC convention in Vegas in 2000 or 2001, and that is where I first met both of them. It was a really good turnout of whipmakers that year, there was Russel, Joe, Peter Jack, Jim Hurlbutt was there for a day or two, I think there was one or two others I can't remember. I think murphy came to the one in 2002. Either way, that may have been my favorite convention as I learned so much that year, Joe gave me a lot of help and answered my barrage of questions, and didn't appear to be sick of me by the end of the week ). Russel Gave me some really good tips on stockwhip keepers and plaiting. It was great to see jim again, as I hadn't seen him in a year or two since I wend to visit him in wyoming, and we got to talking whips, and he showed me a very neat whip, I'll have to see if I can find the picture I took. Peter Jack, just cracks me up, he's very funny, but was hard to get a hold of the whole time as he was being hounded by everyone. The only time I was able to get a real conversation with him was when we happened to be the only two in the elevator at the hotel.

Oh, I almost forgot, John Brady was there too, and it was an honor to meet him, he was extreemely nice, and we had a great conversation about whipmakers and whipcracking and what he looks for in a whip. And he even gave me some of his personal falls that were very finely cut, I believe he said a couple of them were made by Russel. He was a little down though as his wife Vi Brady had just recently passed away.

Dan,

I don't know for sure how long Russel has been making whips, but a neat tid bit is, (last I had heard) Russel works overnight security at a plant or facility of some kind, and he plaits his whips there while watching the instruments and camera's, to help pass the time.

Russel and Joe's style of making differ quite a bit in my mind. They may make the same basic types of indy whips, that being 12 plait 2 plaited bellys, wrist loop and indy knots.

But they have their own traits in the whip, Joe's Indy knots are a bit more evenly shaped all around and his flat braiding on the wrist loop is very smooth, his strands are beveled opposite corners in what I like to call the Indy style. His strands taper smoothly and he ends in six plait.

On Russel's Indys the overlay strands at the handle are a bit wider, and the taper of the strands comes down very thin to the end of the whip and end in 8 plait, with a very fine point. And as I mentioned earlier, russel bevels both the bottoms of his strands and splits so the braiding itself sits in a little smoother and the strands tend to sit together much neater than the Indy type beveling. Also his wrist loop looks a bit different, and his indy knots aren't evenly shapped all around. In fact, until about a year or so ago his knots on the indy whip were 6 part 7 bight pinneapple interwieve knots, unlike the knots that he now does that are much more indy accurate.

And as for the Schultze whips that resemble joe's lonestar, I don't think it's really a question of which came first, as the "lonestar design isn't all that much of a difference between any other run of the mill bullwhip. The lonestar is basically the same as an indy, 2 bellys made the same type of construction 12 plait, the only real difference is that the handle is 2inches longer, there's no wrist loop, and the knot is the same base knot, it's just taken into a 2 tone pinneapple interweive that gives the lonestar pattern on the butt of the knot.

And IndyDoc,

Thanks For the Plug, I'll let you know when I get that new hide in for it, the hides should be here in the next couple weeks.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Here's a pic of a 10 foot cowhide bullwhip I made that would sell for $250. It's made from veg-tanned cowhide, so it should darken just like kangaroo. This particular whip went to France.

-Adam

Craig you know me...I stand behind my IOAB

There should have actually been a ;-) behind the Schultz/Strain design similarities with the "Lonestars."

Yeah, they're essentailly bullwhips with two-tone pineapple knots. I wasn't insinuating that Joe or Russell stole anything from anyone, and yeah, I'm to the point now I can tell Schultz and Strain's work apart, (though I have yet to actually crack a Schultz whip.) But that's a relatively recent ability, (and only after reading a couple posts by you that tell me what to look for.)

Either way, it's a great design. I love my Lonestar!

As to construction, I know that Schultz whips are a little smoother in construction, (from those thin strands,) and can be more delicate than Strains. Above and beyond that, I leave the comments about skiving, beveling, and braiding to you, Paul! You are indeed the master!

Speaking of, Barbara loves the 8 foot whip you made for her. I've been working with her occasionally, and I often use the excuse that her whip "needs to break in more to do that crack, so here use mine, and I'll hold onto yours," as an excuse for cracking hers, (I think she's catching on, so I might have to order one for myself pretty soon!)

Well, I will say this about my whip it's almost a smooth as a snake. You can't even really feel the braiding when you run your hand over it.

I'm very impressed with the craftsmanship on my whip.

What type of material do they use for the handle that they place the leather over? Sometimes when I move my whip a certain way I can here what sounds like metal inside the handle.

Thanks Dan and Paul (Nolan) for your recommending my whips.

Craig,

Here are a couple fo pics of an Indy bullwhip, 12 plait, 10 foot, cowhide that went to France too! (like Adam's...). Hope you like it!

Regards,

Bernardo

There's another beautiful whip. Very nicely done.

Very nice looking, Bernardo.

Where do you get that cowhide? I'd like to get my hands on some!

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Craig the more research you do the better off you’ll be. We can recommend any number of really great whip makers, but ultimately the choice I going to be yours. What I like, or some one else likes in a whip might not be what you like. Talk to the whip makers that you’re interested in buying from. They will more then likely be very willing to help you chose the right whip for you. If you can't actually try one of their whips first, at least ask questions, look at photos and try gathering as much information as you can. If price is what is going to determine the whip you get, then just be sure to get the best whip for you that you can afford.

It sounds like whip cracking has already gotten in your blood, and once you have your own whip and try it out you probably will get even more hooked. It’s a slippery slope and there is a reason crack is so addictive. Personally I think an 8-plait bullwhip or stock whip made in a high quality cowhide by a skilled whip maker who knows what he/she is doing is a good choice. Something like that makes a great starter whip, that is a little more forgiving and wont break the bank if cost is an issue, From there you can you can always trade up later on.

Pitfall, Russell Schultz is one of Australia’s premier whip makers, and is well known for the high level of quality in his work. You have a real beauty.

Adam, Bernardo, as always great looking bullwhips you guys know how to kick it up a notch.

Dan

The subtle differences in whips, from whipmaker to whipmaker, is fascinating to me. I can look at pics of whips from makers all over for hours, and having even done so, probably wasted a lot of time. Seeing and handling all the various whips would be a sweeter deal!
My hat's off to Adam & Bernardo on the cowhide whips~ you guys do tremendous work!

Jeff (Snakewhip),

Thanks btw for the comments on the nylon whip! I'm glad it's treatin' ya good, and vice versa. Your particular whip was made in the traditional way that many others build nylon whips, in that it contains a bb loaded core. Two bellies are plaited over that, an 8 and a 12, finished off w/ 16.
The handle is 9 inches.
I hadn't dipped your whip in paraffin or beeswax, as some do, but may try that at some point.

Steve.