RAIDERS: side strap configuration SOLVED!!!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:22 pm

While doing a frame x frame analysis of all the scenes in which the jacket is on screen I noticed something that I've never seen brought up in all of my years of geardom. I've always heard theories on how the side straps were done on the Raiders jacket since my days over at Indyfan, but never any concrete evidence.
If I remember correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong) it was Lee Keppler who first put the theory to practice on how the straps were done.
It went that you first put the strap through the buckles as they are intended. Then you take the leftover strap, loop it over and push it back through the last buckle again. This reinforces the buckel so that it shouldn't come loose at any time and makes prefect sense since there were so many stunts to be performed.
Today while skipping frames looking for the underarm gussets, something hit me solid. I then ran upstairs and grabbed my Wested to see if I was right.
I was.

One single frame from when Indy is rolling down the hill after escaping the boulder shows the side strap configuration and my jacket matched it perfectly. So, I took a pic of my Wested in the same angle and you can see for yourselves. You can see just how the loop forms. It's exact. You can see the strap in the lower right corner.

I know for years many people have thought that the way the jackets were out together was wrong based soley on the fact that the straps faced towards the back and that any of the hardware used made the strap face the front. People thought Wested had it wrong even thought Peter said he's been doing it the same way all along. The Flightsuits jacket as well, is the same and it's make-up taken directly from a screen used stunt jacket. Up till now all we've had are pretty much the same frames giving us the same questions cuz' they've just never been clear enough. I'm not sure how I've never noticed it before and I can say I never recall ever seeing it posted by anyone else before.
I'd say that if that's the case and this exact frame has never been brought to any of our attention before that it should seal the deal on this one. At least it does for me. My days of wondering how the side straps were done are now oficially over.

Now. Whadda you guys think?

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:25 pm

Sergei has been preaching this adjustment for years, agent5. He's even threatened me more than once that the next time he saw me, he'd set mine like this on my FS as I've not bothered to do this myself. Never needed to, as my straps never slipped, but he's been adament about it.

Thanks for the confirmation, though.

Regards! Michaelson

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:29 pm

Now, am I to understand that if you pull on this it would just come right out?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:02 pm

You do have to give it a little tug to get it out, but yes, it will come out with a pull. However, the strap will not come loose by itself.

Rusty Jones · Post by **Rusty Jones** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:09 am

I alternate between this way and the other with my wested depending on how tight I have the action pleat, and although it looks easy to pull loose, it really is a very much stronger hold on the straps so I've never had it come loose using this method...

Lightning · Post by **Lightning** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:25 am

I recently started to use this method because I really don’t have enough strap to be able to tuck it back under.

They point backwards but don’t lay flush.

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:50 am

Hmmm, done it ever since I got a jacket, bubba!

( '02) 'ol news

, but thanks for sharing that frame grab.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:52 am

I know it's old news in the way that alot of us have been doing our side straps like this for a while, but this is the first time I've ever seen a screen cap or pic of any kind that demonstrates it so well. Most of the time it's some hazy or blurry pic and when i came across this one I was impressed at how clear it actually was. That's the only reason for the post.

Lightning,
I'll bet the reason your side straps are too short is that when Wested began using the sliders (years ago) they cut down the size of the strap because there was then too much excess strap left over.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:44 am

Very true. The older Westeds always seemed to have at least 5 to 7 inches more than the do now....or at least the ones I owned did.

Regards! Michaelson

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:56 am

Not to get too off track, but my side straps seem very short and I would have preferred to have them longer. I think they look better longer and are more functional that way.

Indakin · Post by **Indakin** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:19 pm

why do you guys do the straps like this anyways? Do you want them to come undone if needed? My westeds coming this week so i dont know first hand yet.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:33 pm

Good find Agent5.

BTW, is that Dark brown? (lamb/goat?) When posting gear photos everyone should have to give details.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:49 pm

why do you guys do the straps like this anyways? Do you want them to come undone if needed?

Yes. Sometimes you may want to tighten them or loosen them up, depending if you have it zipped or open, etc.

Doc,
Thanks. That's a dark brown lamb from around 2000. Just look at that grain! I wish Wested could get grain like that in all their leathers. My last one was pretty smooth.

VP · Post by VP » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:07 pm

agent5 wrote:Now. Whadda you guys think?

I think that the pics you posted are too wide.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:50 pm

I think that the pics you posted are too wide

Too wide for Bufflehead or too wide for you?

Well, if you wanna resize them and send them back to me, I'll replace them.

VP · Post by VP » Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:52 pm

Both. They are a bit wide, but any smaller would make it harder to see the details. You could replace the second one with a link to the pic.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:31 pm

agent5 wrote: Doc,
Thanks. That's a dark brown lamb from around 2000. Just look at that grain! I wish Wested could get grain like that in all their leathers. My last one was pretty smooth.

The Authentic goat sample I have is that coarse. The dark brown is less so but still more than both color lambs and the cow. I guess it can varry hide to hide though and they seem to have a goat skin shortage anyway.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:37 pm

It would make sense, there is a lot more lamb killed and eaten than goat.

Though I have always wondered why Roo skin is not more common seeing as the huge numbers of those that are culled annually.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:03 am

This was much harder to pull off on my goatskin jacket than it was for my lambskin jacket.

Indakin · Post by **Indakin** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 am

yea strider i still ahvent been able to make mine do that, just tooo much leather.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:50 am

If you keep messing with it I'm sure you'll get it. Sometimes it does seem like it won't go through but it should and should not come undone.

Indakin · Post by **Indakin** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:11 am

yea i was soooo lsot trying to do it at first. I just kept looking at ur pics and my jacket over and over, completely stumped on how the heck it would work

: The goat must be a bit thicker, but ill try again right now during my class, im so bored. lol

*update* i jsut did it, what a pain in the butt. Now to do the other one! lol

Yuor straps are bigger than mine man*

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:41 pm

agent5 wrote:
I think that the pics you posted are too wide
Too wide for Bufflehead or too wide for you?

Boy, do I have a reputation around here!

Yeah, it was too w-i-d-e for me, but since there wasn't that many posts in this thread, I just decided to try to live with it.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Lee Keppler without a doubt was the first guy that noticed the side strap configuration based on the "Stars" pic.

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:30 pm

WOW Rundquist! Two posts in one day! Gentlemen, the REAL Man in the Hat is BACK!!!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:47 pm

Gentlemen, the REAL Man in the Hat is BACK!!!

I can't think of a better title for you, Rundquist.

You buy hats like some people buy sandwiches.

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:40 pm

You buy hats like some people buy sandwiches.

I don't remember my Montecristi(sp) sandwich costing a Grand!

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:45 pm

agent5 wrote:If you keep messing with it I'm sure you'll get it. Sometimes it does seem like it won't go through but it should and should not come undone.

Oh, I got it. The lambskin was easy to do it to, but I had to use a pair of needlenose pliers to pull the strap through on the goat!!

Rusty Jones · Post by **Rusty Jones** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:25 pm

Strider wrote:
agent5 wrote:If you keep messing with it I'm sure you'll get it. Sometimes it does seem like it won't go through but it should and should not come undone.
Oh, I got it. The lambskin was easy to do it to, but I had to use a pair of needlenose pliers to pull the strap through on the goat!!

My goat works very easily with this configuration, but that's probably because I have D-Rings instead of sliders...

191145 · Post by **191145** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:51 pm

Not that it's 'correct', but I just re-threaded my side tabs so the extra length was on the inside. Still points to the front, but is tucked under the other strap and doesn't stick out. I can put a picture up tomorrow if anybody wants to see how.

191145 · Post by **191145** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:41 pm

Okay, here's the deal. You just reverse the lacing of the strap and the end stays behind the strap. This is taken from the top looking down, and the front is to the right.

Indakin · Post by **Indakin** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:56 pm

Strider wrote:
agent5 wrote:If you keep messing with it I'm sure you'll get it. Sometimes it does seem like it won't go through but it should and should not come undone.
Oh, I got it. The lambskin was easy to do it to, but I had to use a pair of needlenose pliers to pull the strap through on the goat!!

dude i had the same issue, i could slip the point of the strap through , but getting the corners to go through was really a pain. But it looks good now.

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:35 pm

When I got my Wested and Expo a few years ago, the side straps were (are) pretty long so I was using this same method in an effort to shorten them up. However, at the time, I was dealing with issues of screen accuracy. Since then I'm now more of a spirit-of-Indy-adventure.

Thank you for catching that, agent5. I can now have peace knowing that this configuration, that a lot of us had figured out on our own, is truly screen accurate after all.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:47 am

Thank you for catching that, agent5. I can now have peace knowing that this configuration, that a lot of us had figured out on our own, is truly screen accurate after all.

Well...your welcome. As you said, I definitely wasn't the first on this one, but I'd never seen anyone post or even point out that frame before. I don't think Keppler saw this configuration on the Stars photo but I'd love to know where he did.
On another note, I saw a Wested on ebay today with had the side straps put on backwards 'for screen accuracy'. Guess the pic above shows that not to be true.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:00 pm

Jason, great post!

I have a crazy question. Who is that guy in the last photo you posted?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:08 pm

It's one of the stunt guys isn't it?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:16 pm

Yes, it's Terry Leonard.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:21 pm

Thanks. I had a feeling it might have been, but he looks different somehow.

Dakota Hurly · Post by **Dakota Hurly** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:29 am

question I have; Why is the strap configured that way? pointing backwards.

RAIDERS: side strap configuration SOLVED!!!

RAIDERS: side strap configuration SOLVED!!!

Re: RAIDERS: side strap configuration SOLVED!!!