Club Obi Wan

I've got a couple of questions for someone out there.

When a whip is made and it says that the whip has a two plaited belly, I'm going to assume that there are two layers of plaiting that are underneath the outside. How many strands of leather are used in each layer of the belly? I know that 12 or 16 plaits aren't used for the bellies. Why then are the outside plaits made with more strands? Is just for looks?

Is there a list of links to all the different whip vendors? The Vendors page only has a few. The rest are easy enough to find with a search engine but I was looking for a Terry Jacka site and couldn't find one.

http://www.whipenthusiasts.org/whip_makers.htm

Also East Coast Whips is now www.whipworks.net

That's a pretty exhaustive list. Thanks for that but still nothing for Terry Jacka?

Hi Jimdiana, A good whip is made from the inside out in layers. It is very important that the guts of the whip be made properly from quality materials to form a solid sound foundation. A common example of how a whip with two bellies is built is that at the center you have a core. The core is often a piece of twisted leather that can be covered by a filler or bolster. That core is plaited over to form the first belly of the whip. That first belly is then covered by another bolster, which is then plaited over to form the second belly. So in essence you now have one whip built over another whip. That second belly is then covered by another bolster and then the final overly is then plaited around that. Of course this isn’t the only way to do it, each whip maker has his or her own preferences. Usually bellies are only 4 to 6 plait, it really just depends on what the whip maker chooses. The strand count on the overlay is secondary, No matter how many stands make up the outer layer; a really good whip should almost feel as if it is doing the work for you. What is important is that the overlay be tight, evenly plaited, smooth and the whip be properly tapered. A whip moves the way it does because of stretching, flexing and compression of the plaited strands. As the whip moves and bends, the plaiting on the top of the curve tends to want to stretch and separate while the strands on the bottom of the whip become compressed and are forced closer together. In a whip with a high overly plait count each individual strand experiences less stretching and compression and each strand moves less to achieve that curving motion compared to a whip with a lower overly plait count. So aside from looks, it’s also for flexibility. The premise being that in a whip made with a 12 or 16 + plait overly, the narrow stands will flex less, but still make for a smoother lively action then say a whip only 4 or 6 wider stands. I know this is a bit long winded, but hopefully it answers your questions.

Another good vendor list is the one on the Bullwhip FAQ at www.bullwhip.org/cgi/vendors.pl It is not a complete list but it has recently been updated. Unfortunately Terry Jacka does not have a website. He sells his whips here in North America though David Morgan www.davidmorgan.com Western Stage Props www.westernstageprops.com and The Australian stock saddle Company www.aussiesaddle.com

Dan

Wow, great answer. More than I expected but well worth it. I'd heard that the more plaits a whip has the more flexible it is but When I saw pictures of a whip in production and it had less plaits than the final overlay it made me go "Hmmm?"

My first whip was about 25 years ago when I first saw Raiders. It was a swivel handle rope core cowhide. I beat the #### out it thinking I could swing on it and do all kinds of other stuff. Its kind of like your first car, no matter what it's really like you still think its great. I now have a whip from Joe Strain and the quality is incredible. This summer I plan on getting a Morgan and something else too.

Thanks again

Jimdiana, Im glad i could be of help.

I agree, Joe Strain does fantastic work, I don’t mean to take anything away from the extremely talented whip makers here on Indy Gear, but in my opinion Joe is one of, if not thee top whip maker working in the U.S. Dare I say maybe even better then David Morgan these days, and I am big mark for David’s work.

You know I still have a few of those old heavy cowhide rope core swivel handled bullwhips, they where made a better back in those days, and I tell you what, I put them though the paces that’s for sure lol. They may not be even close to the precision whips we can get today, but I don’t think I’d ever get rid of them. Then again I doubt any one in their right mind would want them.

All the best.

Dan

I've got fond memories of that old whip of mine. It's where I first leanred how to work one. I sold it to a friend years ago. My second whip was a very poor quaility one that never compared.

Thanks again.

I may be committing blasphemy here, but I actually prefer Joe Strain's whips to David Morgan's.

Not to say I don't like Morgans, but there is just something around the transition of Morgans that makes them feel a little unwieldy to me. I know people who I respect greatly as whip crackers who feel the same way about Strains as compared to their Morgans. Morgan makes a beautiful whip, but it's like a Ford/Chevy thing to me. My preference is just the Jacka/Strain construction type of whip.

Likewise, I REALLY like my new Jacka 6 footer, and the transition on those is like a rock! Plaiting is smooth as a baby's undercarriage!

Also, speaking of: Are THOSE Jacka whips that Aussie Saddle sells? (their "premium" model?) I was looking there the other day, and the handle on the higher grade 8 footer looks about right.

They don't mention Jacka at all, but they sure do mention Anthony DeLongis a lot! If so, it pains me the crimes he's perpetrating on those fantastically tight transitions with his "reverse throw" method of whip cracking, (for theatrical purposes, he throws whips upside down to slow them down. In turn the whip stretches against the natural curve in the same way that volleys do and tears the transition of the whip apart, which is why his whips always look so floppy and non-energetic.)

Read his post about it here:

http://www.filipinofightingwhip.blogspot.com/

You can also occasionally get Terry Jacka whips from a place called "Purple Whips," (do a search, I'm not posting the link here.) but I don't know if I'd want anything from them coming to me in the mail. Plain-brown-wrapper kind of company.

That said, David Morgan carries Jacka's work for $5 less than what Mark Allen, (WSP,) does, which really surprised me, and even costs a little less in shipping! (just an FYI, though I'd probably order through WSP anyway, as I've dealt with Mark and Company before, but never with Morgan.)

Good luck and happy cracking!

-Dan

When I saw the title to this thread, I came running with my MENSA score in hand, and then I found out that the questions were about the construction of a bullwhip. Dang, I don't know anything about bullwhips, except for what I have read from the experts here on COW.

Hey Dan, its not blasphemy, every style of whip is different, and acts different accordingly. As we all know, whip cracking is so much about personal preference, what feels right to one person is totally wrong for another. Some prefer their whips loose as a wet noodle, others like them to stay stiff like when brand new. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong as long as it works for the individual? Terry’s whip is an Australian bullwhip, it’s a different animal, it is a hybrid of the classic short handled bullwhip and the Aussie stock whip. So comparing them to the traditional Indy style (American stlye with Aussie construction techniques) bullwhip is like comparing apples to oranges.

Anthony Delongis is the one that told me a while back that The Australian Stock Saddle Company sold Terry Jacka’s whips. While I was looking for a new stock whip a couple months ago I talked to Colin Dangaard who runs the place and he confirmed that they did sell Terrys whips, and he really liked them too. I believe the long handled bullwhip they sells is one of Terry’s, but they also have a few other whip makers supplying them, so you would have to check to see which whip is made by whom to be sure.

Thanks for posting that link I hadn’t seen it before. The Delongis style of whip cracking sometimes gets a bad rap from the traditionalists, but its really blown out of proportion. With Terry’s bullwhips, those long tight transition from the handle will hold up to a lot, much better then you might think and as long you are cracking the bullwhip with or against the natural curve its fine. I don’t really agree that Anthony’s whips are floppy or non energetic, they are well broken in, but everything I’ve seen points to the opposite, and if anything they seem very smooth, responsive, lively, fluidic and roll out very nicely.

You are correct though, A friend of mine is looking into getting a a new Australian bullwhip and when we figured it out the final numbers, from David Morgan its about 15 bucks less, plus you get the free repair kit. I’ve dealt with both companies and I highly recommend either, they are both great businesses and won’t steer you wrong. Regards.

Dan

The "Blasphemy" statement was supposed to be followed up by a

I forgot it though...

While I'm not a big fan of DeLongis's whip style, I've copied that article from "Latigo y Daga" on my computer desktop, have the blog bookmarked and plan on buying the "Filipino Fighting Whip" book just to check out what they're doing, (for my take on the inverted throw of the DeLongis method, check out the other new thread on the subject.)

As I stated, the site doesn't mention Jacka at all, but the pic sure looks like his work, so I'm not surprised, and the long handled whips that I've seen DeLongis use are right up Jacka's alley.

Thanks for the info on that, Dan, and you're quite welcome for the link to the Latigo y Daga site. I was out actually looking for some info on DeLongis when I found it, (I was looking for who was the whip master for that REALLY short shot in the first "Underworld" where the vampire is throwing around two silver-tipped bullwhips against the werewolves. I figured it was DeLongis, as it looked very much like the two-handed stuff from "The Rundown." I couldn't find out for sure, because the IMDB and DeLongis's own site don't mention it that I could find. I was right though. He did it.)

I like a lot of the stuff they have to say there, though I'm not quite sure how much I buy into it yet. As I said though, I'm planning on picking up the book to hopefully get some ideas for the upcoming "Cliffhanger" feature.

Cheers!

-The Other Dan

Dan, Anthony Delongis primarily uses Terry Jacka’s whips and has been doing so for around 20 years. (I get the impression that there his favored whips ) though he prefers the extended handle to combine that unbroken connection of a bullwhip with the longer handle of the stockwhip. He said he found it better for accuracy and that it gave a bit more space when working on horseback.

Dan