Club Obi Wan

I viewed a whip on ebay a couple days ago~ 12 ft, 12 plait roo. Seller said it took no less than 100 hrs to make. This floored me! Sent him a message and complimented his work, but mentioned that it was hard to believe it took 100 hrs to make. I remember reading how others have built whips of this size in under 10 hrs, & mentioned such names to him as Paul Nolan & Adam Winrich. He believes it's not possible to make a top-notch, quality whip in 10 hrs or less. Others whip-makers feel free to share your thoughts.

Perhaps he hunts down & kills the kangaroos himself, tans the hide, etc.

Steve.

Yea,
thats deffinatly not right.

Yeah, I saw that whip, too. I also find the claim of 100 hrs a little hard to believe. Longer whips do take more time, and that whip was a 12 footer, but I think it would only take me 15 hours or so.

-Adam, www.winrichwhips.com

Yea,
Even for a rookie like myself,
it only takes me about 34 hours or even less.
Adam

Perhaps he's doing it one-handed...so THAT'S how you make a left-handed whip.

Indiana Jerry wrote:Perhaps he's doing it one-handed...so THAT'S how you make a left-handed whip.

I was thinking maybe he plaits w/ his feet or something, I dunno. But he told me that anyone who said it took 12 hrs or less to make a quality whip was pulling my chain. I started making whips a while back as a hobby, and boy it has become an addiction, lol. Always enjoy seeing new posts & pics by guys like Nolan, Winrich, Jim Markell, Stenhouse, etc. Although I'm not a professional whip-maker as these guys, still from my own experience, The longest it's taken me on a whip w/ at least 2 bellies and 8 ft long, has been 13 hrs.

Steve.

Hey Steve, and everybody,

I believe I saw that whip too, and while I admit that 100 hours does seem a bit excessive, I don't doubt him. I don't know him personally, so I can only guess as to his situation, and I would guess that he doesn't make whips full time. So perhaps he can only work on whips in his spare time, and from my personal experience haveing to start or stop in the middle of a project adds extra time when I get back to it, just to get focused and to get the tools that I need back out, etc....

There is a lot of things that could factor into taking more time.

I don't know his level of experience, but another thing is the newer you are to whipmaking the longer it will take for any project, because your not just making a whip and using your brain to do so, your thoughts are also very busy thinking about how to improve on it, noticing things and coming up with ideas on how to do it better.

Also, when I had first started I was using the Ron Edwards book, and it says in the book a whipmakers rule, "pull tight, plait loose", and it doesn't exactly explain what this means. So for the first whips that I made I was pulling every single strand tight before I plaited just one. so on a twelve plait whip, every time before I plaited one of the strands, I would be pulling 12 strands tight. so for every 12 strands I plaited (the equivelent to about an inch) I was pulling the strands tight 144 times. And it seemed to take forever to braid one foot of 12 plait.

After thinking about the structure of the braiding and how it works, and speaking to a couple of whipmakers I found out that you only pull the strand you are about to plait, you only pull that one tight and then you plait it, then you pull the next strand tight and then plait it. And I found I was able to braid a foot of 12 plait much much faster. Also the whip ended up tighter this way, because pulling the strand you are about to use actually pulls the strand tight a full inch or two previously and locks the braiding in back there, and then the next strand gets pulled and locks up that same strand 2 inches back.

So that could be part of it as well. Perhaps he is pulling all the strands tight when he plaits. Again, I don't know him, so I can only make guesses.

Also, while it is possible to make a 2 belly 12 plait 8 foot whip in under 12 hours, and I have done so, as well as I know Adam has. For me it doesn't happen all the time. There are always distractions or inturruptions, or just things in daily life(i.e. you have to go to the bathroom, or you need a drink of water or something). There are also unexpected things with the leather, such as weak spots you didn't detect, or miscalculations.

I think that covered everything I was wanting to say, if I missed anything let me know.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Since we were talking about whipmaking, and that I'm excited that I finally can post pictures, I figured I'd post some recent pics of whips in progress.

Here is a couple in progress pics of the whip I finished for Dan Trout's friend Zak's Wife.







And below are some pictures of a whip I'm finishing up, it is a 24 plait bullwhip in black and white, and the handle will be braided over in a black and white barber poll design. Personally I like how the handle looks right now. If anyone is interested I can post some pics of it when it is finished. Also it is a prototype to figure out some patterns for a pair of 8 foot 24 plait black and yellow bullwhips that the customer wants.





And even this whip being 24 plait two tone, 4 feet took me about 4 or 5 hours to plait. 4 foot of 12 plait usually takes me about 2 hours.

Hope you all enjoy the pics.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Thanks for the pics, Paul, those are really gr8 shots! You made a couple very good points about the plaiting and delays in construction that ppl face. I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing this guy, and forgive me if that's how I come off. His whips that he sells on ebay, as I wrote to him, look fantastic, and probably handle just as well. But when he told me that I must have misunderstood what other whipmakers have said in the time it takes, also that they must not be quality whips, then I just had to share this w/ u folks. The input here from you guys is always tremendous!

Regards,

Steve.

Man! those are excellent examples mate of the inner workings, really shizz-el, (Adam whats whats the word?) .


Oh,
and I heard that you are have a whip in the makings for somebody, a mate of yours I beleve,
and he dubbed the name of the whip, the SSSBW? Is that true, .



.


Laters.


Jim J.

Paul, Great pictures, thanks for sharing them. I know I always enjoy seeing the building process of a good whip. I really like the black and white 24 plait your working on. Hope you post more pictures when its finished up, I would especially would like to see a better shot of the handle, looks you have done some really fancy plaiting.

Any way, from the professional whip makers I’ve talked to over the years, A hundred hours on one whip does seems a bit much, but everyone works at different speed so who knows. I’d be more interested in the over all quality of the work then how long it takes to finish.

Regards

Dan

midwestwhips wrote:Hey Steve, and everybody,

I believe I saw that whip too, and while I admit that 100 hours does seem a bit excessive, I don't doubt him. I don't know him personally, so I can only guess as to his situation, and I would guess that he doesn't make whips full time. So perhaps he can only work on whips in his spare time, and from my personal experience haveing to start or stop in the middle of a project adds extra time when I get back to it, just to get focused and to get the tools that I need back out, etc....

There is a lot of things that could factor into taking more time.

I don't know his level of experience, but another thing is the newer you are to whipmaking the longer it will take for any project, because your not just making a whip and using your brain to do so, your thoughts are also very busy thinking about how to improve on it, noticing things and coming up with ideas on how to do it better.

Also, when I had first started I was using the Ron Edwards book, and it says in the book a whipmakers rule, "pull tight, plait loose", and it doesn't exactly explain what this means. So for the first whips that I made I was pulling every single strand tight before I plaited just one. so on a twelve plait whip, every time before I plaited one of the strands, I would be pulling 12 strands tight. so for every 12 strands I plaited (the equivelent to about an inch) I was pulling the strands tight 144 times. And it seemed to take forever to braid one foot of 12 plait.

After thinking about the structure of the braiding and how it works, and speaking to a couple of whipmakers I found out that you only pull the strand you are about to plait, you only pull that one tight and then you plait it, then you pull the next strand tight and then plait it. And I found I was able to braid a foot of 12 plait much much faster. Also the whip ended up tighter this way, because pulling the strand you are about to use actually pulls the strand tight a full inch or two previously and locks the braiding in back there, and then the next strand gets pulled and locks up that same strand 2 inches back.

So that could be part of it as well. Perhaps he is pulling all the strands tight when he plaits. Again, I don't know him, so I can only make guesses.

Also, while it is possible to make a 2 belly 12 plait 8 foot whip in under 12 hours, and I have done so, as well as I know Adam has. For me it doesn't happen all the time. There are always distractions or inturruptions, or just things in daily life(i.e. you have to go to the bathroom, or you need a drink of water or something). There are also unexpected things with the leather, such as weak spots you didn't detect, or miscalculations.

I think that covered everything I was wanting to say, if I missed anything let me know.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

To be honest paul,
I've always done my whipmaking that way and its never taken me that long. It just makes your hands hurt alot! And it was that very saying that always screwed me up. Thanks for saying that! That explains alot of my problems! And it just shows how little i know.
Adam

Not being a full time whip maker I take my time making a whip. While I've built two whips over a single weekend before (something I did not enjoy) I usually split up the construction process over a couple weeks or more. Just because I have other responsibilities and I'm really not in any hurry. That being said, in total I would say that building a whip from start to finish takes me about ten hours on average. It's just that those ten hours are spread out over days or weeks. I'll cut out a set and skive it one day then a few days later I'll braid a belly or two and then eventually move onto the overlay. However, rarely do I stop in the middle of the braiding and come back to it. If I start on a belly or overlay I finish that portion the same day.

Hi all,

This thread popped back in my head as continue to make my first whip. As far as the 100 hours it seems like mine is taking that long.

My question is, what determines the quality of a whip? Does not having the 2 belly 2 bolster make a whip to be of low quality and how many plait are the bellies? (I’ve read 4 for the first and it differs from there. Then I read either Paul Stenhouse or Adam Winrich, please forgive me if it’s neither of you I can’t find the thread, saying, when using cow hide more than 4 plait is pointless for the second belly. I wish I had read that before I did mine.) How about a whip with only one belly? I’m sure there are more variations than I can think of . . . . Also what should a person making a whip for the first time aim for?

Paul Nolan,

Nice pic’s of the construction process. Are you finished with the 24 plait? Any pic’s?

Best,
Herr Jones

Herr Jones,

In my 12-plait bullwhips, right now I use 2 4-plait bellies and no bolsters. My 8-plait whips have a single 4-plait belly with a bolster. Some 8-plait bullwhips don't have the bolster, though that depends on the thickness of the leather I'm using.

-Adam

those are some awesome pics, i finally understand how making a whip works, well mostly. I see why they can cost so much, takes alot of skill to make it that good. The 24 looks really cool, def post pics when u finish.

Have to put my 2 cents worth in here. I personally use 4 plaited bellies for all my whips as shown here .
http://www.em-brand-whips.com/insidebull.htm I feel that anything under the two plaited bellies and two bolsters plus the bindings at the handle transition and you will end up with a whip that in the coarse of time will end up looking like a wet noodle. No offence meant to other whip makers here either,this is just the way I make mine.

Bernie,

I certainly agree with you about the number of bellies and bolsters if you're talking about kangaroo hide bullwhips.

I think Herr Jones was asking about COWHIDE bullwhips, which is a little different. I have done 2 bellies, 2 bolsters, and a wrapped/reinforced transition in cowhide and I ended up with a hauser, not a whip.

-Adam

I apologize for not specifying which type of hide. I see that I mangled up what should have been separate questions so there would be no confusion.

Bernie,

I knew you were talking about kangaroo which is what I was looking for also. I hope to make a kangaroo whip one day. (Your bullwhip tutorial is great in supplementing the two recommended books on whip making.)

Adam,

Thanks for clearing up my question. My main interest right now is for cowhide so you were quite helpful. I already want to make another since I have some hide left over and my first one isn’t even finished yet – go figure.

Best,
Herr Jones

But when he told me that I must have misunderstood what other whipmakers have said in the time it takes, also that they must not be quality whips, then I just had to share this w/ u folks. The input here from you guys is always tremendous!

Steve.

Hey Steve,

I had a laugh to myself when I read that. Someone saying that whips aren't quality unless they take 100 hours to make. If that were the case there wouldn't be any whipmakers in business, I don't think anyone could really live on a few hundred bucks a month nowadays. At 40 hours a week you'd only be able to make less than two whips a month, and selling them on ebay for about $200 a piece. And I thought I was in an extreemely low class tax bracket now!

As I said before I don't know this guy, but with a statement like that, to me, it sounds like he's full of it, and making a used car salesman, sales pitch.

Oh,
and I heard that you are have a whip in the makings for somebody, a mate of yours I beleve,
and he dubbed the name of the whip, the SSSBW? Is that true

Jim, Now where oh where did you hear a thing like that?

Paul, Great pictures, thanks for sharing them. I know I always enjoy seeing the building process of a good whip. I really like the black and white 24 plait your working on. Hope you post more pictures when its finished up, I would especially would like to see a better shot of the handle, looks you have done some really fancy plaiting.

Any way, from the professional whip makers I’ve talked to over the years, A hundred hours on one whip does seems a bit much, but everyone works at different speed so who knows. I’d be more interested in the over all quality of the work then how long it takes to finish.

Dan

Hi Dan, I'm glad you liked the pics. Since everyone seems to be enjoying them(and I finally figured out how to post them), I'll try to post pics more regularly.

I will post more pics of the 24 plait white and black whip soon. And as for the handle, what you see on the picture will actually be covered up with a different design. And the design that is on the handle in the picture is actually not that fancy, and the pattern actually happened accidentally. Instead of doing the regular checkerboard, I decided to change it up a bit and do the irregular herringbone because I knew it was going to be covered up anyways. And it just so happened to make that pattern. I'll get some more pics of the handle posted from before it is covered up. It looks pretty cool.

And as for braiding speeds, you are right it is different for each whipmaker, depending on experience, and just the person. From the other professional whipmakers that I've talked to I'm pretty sure I'm in the slower group. But faster or slower has no berring on quality, it's not about how much time is spent, but how much care is spent on the whip. And each whipmaker has their own "groove", for lack of a better term.

Hi all,

This thread popped back in my head as continue to make my first whip. As far as the 100 hours it seems like mine is taking that long.

My question is, what determines the quality of a whip? Does not having the 2 belly 2 bolster make a whip to be of low quality and how many plait are the bellies? (I’ve read 4 for the first and it differs from there. Then I read either Paul Stenhouse or Adam Winrich, please forgive me if it’s neither of you I can’t find the thread, saying, when using cow hide more than 4 plait is pointless for the second belly. I wish I had read that before I did mine.) How about a whip with only one belly? I’m sure there are more variations than I can think of . . . . Also what should a person making a whip for the first time aim for?

Paul Nolan,

Nice pic’s of the construction process. Are you finished with the 24 plait? Any pic’s?

Best,
Herr Jones

Herr Jones,

Have you been bitten by the whipmaking bug yet? Where you find yourself dreaming and constantly thinking about whips and making them?:-)

As for what makes a "quality" whip. It's a tough thing to describe exactly, and even tougher after you've read 'Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenence'.

In my opinion, the number of bellies mean absolutlely nothing in quality terms, or the number of plaits, or bolsters.

I have a pair of 4 foot whitehide stockwhips that I picked up years and years ago($80 for the pair), and they have always been one of my favorite pairs. All they have is a couple thin strips of leather in the inside, (no plaited bellys, and no bolsters), and the overlay is only 4 plait, yet when I crack them the thongs lay out just how I like it. The taper is smooth and they are weighted just right for me.

Most kangaroohide stockwhips have only one belly, and usually no bolster. And they crack and hold up very very well.

And in my opinion a bullwhip with one belly, while being thinner in diameter than a double plaited belly whip, if well made, can be just as good in quality as a two belly whip.

Personally, I only use one plaited belly in any whip under 5 foot, unless two bellys are requested. My reasoning is that in a whip that short the thong needs to bend much more than in a longer whip to get an easy crack. With two plaited bellys in a whip that short the thong is stiffer and harder to flex as much as needed to make the whip crack easily.

The number of plaits in the belly, in my opinion, is even less of a concern. I haven't seen any evidence that anything more than 4 plaits for either belly gives any advantage. Also, I personally don't like the idea of having strand drops in the bellies. I don't have any resons why I don't like it, I just never have liked the thought of it. The only way I could see higher plaits in the bellys making any difference is once you get up to 12 or 16 plait in the belly, but I don't think the effect would be enough to make it worth the time to do it.

And to answer, what a person making a whip for the first time should aim for. I would say you should aim to learn as much as you can. Every time I make a whip I aim for consistency. Consistency in strand width, in tightness of the braid, consistancy with the beveling, and how the strands sit in together, smoothness, and in keeping the seam straight. And consitency in the taper.

Don't take this the wrong way, but your first whips are gonna ****. And I don't mean that they are going to be horrible, I mean they aren't going to turn out as good as you had hoped. Or at least that was how it was for me. As you are going along, make notes, and try to figure out why something turned out one way when you expected it to turn out another way. With every whip there is always something to improve on. So don't get discouraged if your first whip doesn't turn out exactly as you imagine. Good Luck!!!

those are some awesome pics, i finally understand how making a whip works, well mostly. I see why they can cost so much, takes alot of skill to make it that good. The 24 looks really cool, def post pics when u finish.MorgonKenbur

Hey MorgonKenbur,

I'm glad you like the pics and that they have helped you better understand how whips are made. If you have any questions, ask away, and if anyone wants to see anything specific, let me know and I'll take a pic. (I'm starting to get into this posting pictures thing)....

....Great Segway into...

Here's a couple pics of a 24 plait green and black snake whip that I made a couple months ago. Hopefully this will hold ya over till I can get the pics of the black and white 24 plait up.

Enjoy!





Also, the knot on this whip is the first time I did an 11part-10bight turks head knot. And there is a mistake in it, a cookie to the first person who spots it!

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

I got it, the knot was only bit 9 times instead of 10 it that right?
.

Jim, Now where oh where did you hear a thing like that?

If memory servers, it was from this guy who knew a guy, who knew another guy that was bit by a fifty foot sabertooth potato bug.

, actually its inside information.



Jim J.

Paul Nolan,

My guess on the knot is, there is a track with only a black strand not paired with a green one that runs left diagonally down to the right like there was not enough room. It intersects the flash on the knot

I think I’ve been bit and it’s kind of itchy.

I’m glad to see the differing opinions amongst great whip makers. Your explanation on whip length makes sense to me. I won’t be doing any more than 4 plait for the bellies anymore since it already takes me so long. Thanks for guiding me in what I should aim for. I’m trying to learn as much as I can that’s why I’ve asked to be critiqued in the “I’m Making a Whip” thread.

I like the chevron “V” pattern with the green and black colors, nice.

Best,
Herr Jones

J.J.,

It's not the bights, but your kinda close.

If memory servers, it was from this guy who knew a guy, who knew another guy that was bit by a fifty foot sabertooth potato bug.

, actually its inside information.

hahhahahhahah, ROFLMAO

Paul, If its over a over 16 plait, done beyond the standard diamond and herring bone patterns, and especially if its two or more colors, then to me it’s fancy! Either way it looks very cool so consider it a compliment.

Very Nice looking snakewhip as well. I hope you don’t mind me cutting part of your image, I didn’t know how else to describe it but I think the error is that the black strand in the red square is should be with a green.

If I am wrong, perhaps you could sent the whip to me for closer inspection, I’ll probably send it back if I find the error, though I wouldn’t plan on looking that hard.

a fifty foot sabertooth potato bug

That sounds almost as scary as one of those killer bulls of Blanco County, Texas!

Dan

Paul Nolan,

My guess on the knot is, there is a track with only a black strand not paired with a green one that runs left diagonally down to the right like there was not enough room. It intersects the flash on the knot

I think I’ve been bit and it’s kind of itchy.

I’m glad to see the differing opinions amongst great whip makers. Your explanation on whip length makes sense to me. I won’t be doing any more than 4 plait for the bellies anymore since it already takes me so long. Thanks for guiding me in what I should aim for. I’m trying to learn as much as I can that’s why I’ve asked to be critiqued in the “I’m Making a Whip” thread.

I like the chevron “V” pattern with the green and black colors, nice.

Best,
Herr Jones

You are correct, the last pass is missing a green strand because it snapped, so it's only missing in that spot. I thought about redoing it, but to me it looks fine as is, and isn't all that noticeable. I might still redo it if I have some spare time or suddenly feel like doing it.

I'm glad to hear you've been bitten by the whipmaking misquito, but you may want to get checked out to be sure its not malaria or something, ) You can never be too careful.

I'll take a look at your I'm making a whip thread.

And the V pattern on the snake is another one of those accidental patterns the first time I tried to a snakewhip in two tone where the strands came to a yoke, I had two yokes one red and the other black(where when I did two tones before that I had all the laces not in a yoke so I could place them where I wanted for a pattern). The way I start on the handle it just ended up doing that pattern. So it is actually a little bit easier for me to start that pattern than doing the traditional two tone.

Paul, If its over a over 16 plait, done beyond the standard diamond and herring bone patterns, and especially if its two or more colors, then to me it’s fancy! Either way it looks very cool so consider it a compliment.

Very Nice looking snakewhip as well. I hope you don’t mind me cutting part of your image, I didn’t know how else to describe it but I think the error is that the black strand in the red square is should be green.

If I am wrong, perhaps you could sent the whip to me for closer inspection, I’ll probably send it back if I find the error, though I wouldn’t plan on looking that hard.

Dan

Dan,

Thanks for the compliment, and I don't mind you cutting the image, I should probobly resize the ones I have up there so they fit on the page better and don't take as long to load on dialup.

And your also correct about the missing green strand, good job to you as well as Herr Jones, a chocolate chip to both of you!

Too bad you were right, cus I might have sent the whip to you for closer inspection,

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Hey Herr Jones,

Here's a couple pictures of the handle that you wanted to see.





Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Chocolate chip, my favorite!

I know i said it before, but very cool plaiting on the that black and white bullwhip. If you feel however you made any mistakes, you know where to find me. I’ll just be waiting with a glass of milk . Seriously Nice work!

Dan

Mr. The Hutt,

I take less than an hour per foot when making 12 plait whips, with two bellies. For example, I can make 10 whip in about 8 hours, but a 5 footer make take me 4 hours.

As there are so many different types of whips, and different types of people that like them, whatever makes the owner happiest is the right whip for him/her/it.

What Bernie mentioned about the reinforcing of the transition is something that I differ from, because Bernie and I, logically, have different philosophies on it. No big deal, we just make them differently. Will Bernie and I, each providing whips to the same people always make them happy? No, but that's the beauty of this hobby, is the ability to choose! What I mean from all this is that no one whipmaker can make all people happy all the time.

I didn't take the time to read this whole thread, so I may have missed something in there.

I once made a 4 plait cowhide stockwhip with no belly that handles like a wet noodle, but still makes noise. I also once made a 16 plait stockwhip with one belly, a bolster and a fish, which is still as all get out, and I don't use it.

Bottom line is, get one from someone you trust will stand behind their work. 100 hours is way too long!

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Mr. Stenhouse,

When you say "I take less than an hour per foot when making 12 plait whips," is that from making the handle/core to putting on the cracker? I would guess that you have a stock of items that are commonly used to speed things up.

My first whip took me about 45 hours, being new and taking your advice and make notes. Though I'm sure with you whip makers it's like second nature and you all just zip through it.

Best,
Herr Jones

Herr Jones,

I believe what Paul S. means when he says "less than an hour per foot" is the braiding on the 12 plait overlay.

For me Personally, on average I can braid about 2 feet of 12 plait in under or about an hour, not including cutting or preparing times, or the bolsters.

for 4 plait bellies braiding time is about 45 minutes or so for 4 feet on average.

Also these times are not always average, depending on a some things such as streatch in the leather or if there are any problems along the way it can take longer, and sometimes it doesn't.

At one point in time I think my fastest was I plaited about 6 feet of 12 plait in about an hour and 45 mintues, but that does not happen often, and it hasn't happened in a while.

And as with anything with more practice it becomes more natural, and you naturally get faster.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Hi All,

Let me clarify: If I'm going to make an 8 foot whip, it takes me ~6.5 hours, start to finish. If I want a 10 footer, it takes me ~8 hours, start to finish. I do have to walk away from the handle for awhile during epoxy curing, so I don't count that time. In other words, I'm fast! The only thing I typically have pre-cut are falls, but I still pare and round them, once I pick out a suitable one.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Paul (Stenhouse),

That's pretty fast! ...I've been wondering... how long does it actually take you to plait one foot of, say, a 12 plait overlay, and a foot of a 4 plait belly?

Regards,

Bernardo

Paul Stenhouse,

That is fast, I guessing tips from Mr. Morgan are put into action. Well thanks for clearing that up.

Best,
Herr Jones

Let's be honest, I am younger/stronger/faster than David, but that doesn't mean I'm better than him, by no means! I'm just putting into practice what he told me. I'm sure in his heyday, I couldn't keep up with him.

As far as the 12 plait overlay, I'm usually fastest through the section preceding the handle thong junction. I'm slow through the handle and first 12-18 after that, due to how I make them. I put as much tension in this area as I can physically stand to do, which is why I don't reinforce the transition with anything other than tension. Trust me, it's a painful part of whipmaking. Following that, while the strands are still wide enough to cover a decent piece with each strand, I can do a foot in about 15-20 minutes. I haven't ever timed a section, but I do know I can plait a 10 foot 12 plait overlay in around 3 hours.

For four plaits consisting of lanyards and such, I can easily do 1 inch in under a minute. I suppose I can plait 12 inches in less than 3 minutes.
As far as plaiting bellies, I'm a bit slower than that, because I take my time to make sure they are shaped properly.
Does that answer your question?

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Sure Paul!

Thanks. Now I have some bechmarks to measure my own speed.

Regards,

Bernardo

That's the funny part, is that I was never in a hurry! It's just how whipmaking gravitated for me, to getting faster all the time. Natural, I suppose with anyone.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Wow, Paul, to me that's amazingly fast! I wish there was someone close to me who does leather braiding, to be able to glean some tips. At least, I haven't found anyone yet. I know it would help a great deal to just physically watch another do it. The tips you give here are always much appreciated.

Steve.

I braided a 12-plait 10 foot cowhide overlay in 1 hour 45 minutes once, but I wasn't pulling particularly tight.

Sometimes I just go nuts and want to have a whip done. I made a 6 ft 16-plait kangaroo bullwhip with two plaited bellies in a day, but that was a pretty long day.

Speed is fine, quality is finer. Most people won't know how fast a whip was made, but they'll know if it cracks good or not.

-Adam

-It's not the hours, it's the braiding.



Regards,
Swindiana

Dear Steve,

Well, I'm glad that I can be of some help.

Adam,
You are correct. It used to take me double that when I first started. As with anything done with repetition, the speed comes, while still being able to create the same thing. My current speed is as a result of devoting 6-7 years to learning. Now, I'm at the stage where I can consistently make a solid product, but I still have room for improvement. Consider how good/fast Joe Strain is. I'm at the stage where I believe I'm now to the point of refining, always refining. The jump from my work to Joe's quality is one that takes quite a few more years for someone like me to perfect.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Hey everyone,

Here's some pics of the finished 24 plait prototype, in black and white.















This Knot is a new one for me, I've never done it before and it is quite fancy, it took me a while to do it. But I really like the look of it. What do you all think?

This next knot I just liked the look of it.



Enjoy,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Nice work Paul! That knot is pretty fancy on the b & w whip~ what do you call that knot? Did you do the handle in a 32 plait? Gr8 job!

Steve.

That looks really nice. Did you design that knot or learn it some where?

Best,
Herr Jones

Hey Paul,

I like the work you did on the handle. I see you took the knot covering the knob out of the APWA newsletter. It looks really cool.

What plait is the handle? It looks finer than the 24-plait lash of the whip. It also looks like the diameter of the handle didn't get much bigger. Did you compress the handle with string first? Did you split down the strands going over the old handle? Or, did you cut the yoke apart and unbraid the handle and then rebraid it adding in more black strands? These are just some guesses. I know Janine hates it when I try to guess how she does stuff.

Now I'll have to give that Box Pattern knot a try.

How long is that whip? 6 footer?

Great Job! Can't wait to see the pair that you'll be doing.

-Adam

PS: Wait until you see what I ordered from Joe Strain... I think it should come in a week or two.

Nice work Paul! That knot is pretty fancy on the b & w whip~ what do you call that knot? Did you do the handle in a 32 plait? Gr8 job!

Steve.

Hey Steve,

Thanks, I really liked that knot when I first saw it. A picture of it was posted in the Australian whipmakers and plaiters Association last year and I've wanted to try it. It took a little bit to figure out, but it turned out pretty cool. I'll post a pic of the knot with the pic from the journal in a lil bit. The handle is only 24 plait.

I don't know if there is an actual name for the knot, but everyone seems to call it the box pattern knot. I'd probobly be more inclined to call it a 7part-6bight "box pattern" interweve turks-head knot. But it'd be easier to just call it the "Box Pattern Knot" )

That looks really nice. Did you design that knot or learn it some where?

Best,
Herr Jones

Herr Jones,

Thanks. I didn't design the knot, but I did have to figure it out on my own, which I'm pretty proud of, it wasn't easy.

What plait is the handle? It looks finer than the 24-plait lash of the whip. It also looks like the diameter of the handle didn't get much bigger. Did you compress the handle with string first? Did you split down the strands going over the old handle? Or, did you cut the yoke apart and unbraid the handle and then rebraid it adding in more black strands? These are just some guesses. I know Janine hates it when I try to guess how she does stuff.

Now I'll have to give that Box Pattern knot a try.

How long is that whip? 6 footer?

Great Job! Can't wait to see the pair that you'll be doing.

-Adam

PS: Wait until you see what I ordered from Joe Strain... I think it should come in a week or two.

Hey Adam,

The handle is 24 plait also. The strands on the handle are a bit finer due to the handle being thinner than the thong. I originally was going to plait over the strands that were on the handle but halfway through it I could see the handle would be too bulky. So I bound the top of the handle and cut off the plaiting over the handle and cut a set of laces just for the handle. Under the transition knot is where it connected. Nothing special just seemed like the most logical way to do it.

The whip is a 4 footer by the way, with a double plaited belly, by request. I shipped the whip out to the customer today and I can't wait to hear what he has to say. This whip is a prototype for the 8 foot pair, so we could work out what he does like and doesn't and work out how the patterns will go and what knots he want's and all of those details. I really am looking forward to doing the pair.

And I can't wait to see what you got from Joe! I'm always excited to see a new Strain whip.

Also, I'll post some pictures of how I did the handle and also a comparison shot of the box knot.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Here are the other pics.

This one is a pic of the knot I did with the picture I used to figure it out.

And if anyone wants to play the find the mistake game, when I was resizing this pic I noticed a mistake in the knot I hadn't noticed before. Can anyone find it? And if the more experienced whipmakers can wait a little bit, and let everyone else have a shot, ;-). Look carefully it's a little more difficult to spot than the green and black one.



Here's another pic of the original box pattern knot.



And here is a pic of the part of the overlay that was cut off the handle.



And here is the new part of the overlay that covered the handle, before the knots were put on.



And here is another one.



Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

Way too complicated for the likes of me to figure out. I sent you a PM where I think the mistake is, you can see it in the other pics also. It's alwasy neat to see a whip in construction as it can give me hits and tips.

Best,
Herr Jones

paul,
That spiral handle is awsome!
How in the world did you figure out that knot from
the picture!
Adam

Awesome Paul, I know I already talked to you about this, but that whip turned out really cool looking. I like the spiral redo on the handle and that box knot is very original, sounds like a pain to tie, but even with that little mistake it still looks great. That black and blue bullwhip one look good too, fitting colors for whip .

Dan