Club Obi Wan

My green pork pie Squatter here- Does anyone have a larger version of this black and white from Raiders? !!!! !?!? - The pork pie LINE seems to be entering the left side of that little dent, and I'd like to get a MORE DETAILED view! ALSO, there looks to be a little LEDGE at the back top corner of the crown, possibly an extension of this pork pie line. I've bashed my hat to have that ledge at the corner too - it just happens easily with a pork pie..... The black and white is someone's avatar, and it's only 100 by 100 pixels. If I enlarge it, it pixelates. HELP!...

at what point is that picture from? I'll try for a dvd screengrab if you like.

I don't think it's from the final version, it may be an out-take, but it's probably from the "Making of" , or a production still?

It's from the November 1981 issue of American Cinematographer:

That's the only place I know that photo exists. You can see this pic in action on the Making of Raiders, 3K, if you have it. Not sure if it's only available on the original laser or vhs or if it's just on the new dvd extra features?

What's that back dent?

It appears it's just the result of bumping it during practice for or during that fight scene. That's actually the pic that pushed the whole Optimo/lightweight felt thing through here years ago. People had mentioned it here for some time but when I showed this pic to Graham over at Optimo he immediately said it was a lighterweight felt because you couldn't get that dent without it.
Soon, Rundquist ordered an Optimo in lightweight felt and the rest is history.
Now that most members have AB's they can experience the lightweight felt as well.

Right. There was also the sequence where Ford sat down so hard his brim flapped up and down.

So does that picture do you 3thou? I've got that issue and could scan it bigger, but it would have all the dot screen in it. I can't tell it has any line in it from just looking at it.

VP, can't you photoshop this image to make it big, what with your ample skill in the area?

The dent forms by itself in my Sqatter- I have to work on it to make it go away. When the pork pie is unfolded, that 3/4 inch of felt is concave! ....... I reviewed the Stunts and Making Of VHS, and the shot isn't in there.... It's also not in the DVD Bonus Material, but I did find this on the DVD, part of the 16mm making of footage. I've seen the line all over the right side of the hat, and the rear of the left side, but this pic completes the picture- The line up by the left front bash- the one in the little b&w! ........Look at the stick crates in front of Indy's nose in the big b&w pic, and notice they are not there in the little b&w pic. Maybe the little one is a sharp studio 8-by-10 they took the crates out of in the printing process, or maybe someone here photoshopped them out and cranked up the contrast and sharpness?

I'd say they were photoshoped out to make a better composition in that icon.

Forget the hat - I wanna know where I can get a shirt like the one Glenn Randall's wearing!

schwammy wrote:Forget the hat - I wanna know where I can get a shirt like the one Glenn Randall's wearing!

It's a Dunlop I believe. (looking at the logo on the chest) I could be wrong though.

Here's some bigger scans from that AC mag. Descreened and Not Descreened.

This would be the same hat, wouldn't it?

It should be.

Ah, that list picture is obviously the same as it has the same "dent" in the back and it's the exact scene the photo I posted was from.

They're all the same hat .

Yep, and as hard as I try, I still cannot see the telescope crown connection. Looks like a perfect open crowned early HJ creased to the Raiders style to me. But if any of my customers buy into this theory, I will be glad to take my open crown hat, put in the telescope crown crease and then pop it out and put the regular Raiders creases in it for ya. Just thought I would offer! Fedora

Also, if that hat is not a 5 1/2 open crown HJ, I will eat my own hat!! It just ain't that tall folks!! I have noticed that many of my hats that are shown here have too much crown. That would be the 5 3/4 variety of course, but it sure looks too tall at times, on us. I have started making the default Raiders fedora at 5 1/2 open which seems to match the film hat better, at least on most scenes. Fedora

The crown sure looks short and not as tall from the sides in that behind the scenes shot doesn't it?

I think Steve read my mind and posted that thought right before I did.

Merry Christmass, Steve I appreciate your offer! A pork pie becomes a mushroom, and mushroom and Raiders go tegether. That's the green hat. I haven't told you all about the other pork pie I bought, a black Pastoralist. Basicly the same hat with but with Imperial felt. One difference is the pork pie on the black hat seems to have been formed on a block, while the pork pie on the green Squatter looks like it was done by hand. If steam or water (or not) was used is anyone's guess. The "Z" fold of a pork pie is like a spring. An AdventureBuilt turned into a pork pie might have to sit for a few months? to distort? These Akubras are too low at about 3 inches on the sides, where the Raiders hat was probably between 3 1/3 and 3 1/2? Open crown height on these Akubras is only 5 1/4 or 5 3/8. ..........................................Concerning the B&W pics! I realize turning a pic into a 100 by 100 digital image can distort things, but the way that line entering on the left protrudes into the shadow is too obvious to come from the nice rounded shadow line of that magazine article's shot. I have printed photographic film images in a dark room back in the day, and I think maybe Lucas's guys altered that. All you have to do is block or admit light using cardboad masks during the exposure from the projector onto the paper.

I don't think anyone at Lucasfilm would alter a behind-the-scenes snapshot from ROTLA. What you see in the photo is what it was I believe. Just my 2 cents.

Deborah Nadoolman was talking to Dakota Ellison about The Hat, UNTIL he asker her if the Raiders hat was a telescope crown. The current "Star Wars' (1977) is digitally altered from the original. ..And what is that "Cheerio" that's floating between Indy's eye and ear in IndyDoc's pics!?.... But, yeah, skip it! Compressed digitalization has probably produced the effect-but it's based on an underlying reality!

The "cheerio" thing is a blob or mistake in the half-tone printing dot pattern, just a printing goof. You can probably spot hundreds of 'em in your daily newspaper.

Strider wrote:VP, can't you photoshop this image to make it big, what with your ample skill in the area?

Nah, it wouldn't look good. A bigger scan is a better idea.

Indycraze71 wrote:The "cheerio" thing is a blob or mistake in the half-tone printing dot pattern, just a printing goof. You can probably spot hundreds of 'em in your daily newspaper.

Yeah, that's what they call a "frog eye" in the printing trade. Just a splash/blob of ink or something dripped on the printers plate or negitave that the plate was created from. Just an artifact of the printing process.

Merry Christmass, Steve I appreciate your offer! A pork pie becomes a mushroom, and mushroom and Raiders go tegether

An AdventureBuilt turned into a pork pie might have to sit for a few months? to distort?

And a Merry Christmas to you my friend! Yes, or just steam it alot after the crease is in to set it. Better though would be the factory block as they use a tipper, or the female image of the top crease to press it into the crown. This would seem to me to be the sort of hat that you are referring to when you speak of the telescope crown being used for the Raiders fedora. That would raise other issues. That is, did HJ do the factory telescope creases at this time? Or, were they still doing the tradtional creases. What I mean by that, is back in the day when you went to buy a hat, many times the salesman would pull an open crown hat down and the creasing was done by him to suit whatever style the customer wanted. Later on, I think, they added the factory creases, the ones that were mechanically pressed into the crown of the hat. But whether or not HJ ever offered the factory crease interests me. Now, most of the factory creases of the telescope variety were generally stamped into stiffer felt, for obvious reasons. Under the heat and pressure the top of the stiffened crown also distorted under this procedure. Hard to get a nice looking fedora from a traditional stiff telescope crown, that is, the complete look. But. if the soft felt of the Raiders fedora was handcreased at one time into the mentioned crown crease, then popping it out, and restyling it into what we see as the Raiders fedora would be a moot point really. That should be obvious as well. That is the beauty and desirability of the soft felt hats. You can style the same soft felt(and the Raiders fedora was traditional soft felt, unlike the hats HJ sold us during the 90's) into various styles, and change it up at a moments notice with no dire effects on the hat. So, this is just some more things to think about. Fedora

I think this idea was brought up before in a previous thread, but maybe HF was "out with the guys" one night or just on set and was messing around with the hat and formed it into a porkpie for kicks.

My guess is this green hat was shaped by hand. The felt is bunched up around the edges of the dome, the bow side is almost a quarter inch higher than the oposite side. Still, the green hat's felt has distorted here, just for having the pork pie shape for a long time, or like you say, maybe a shot of steam allowed it to distort and set that way The black hat is flawless, obviously stamped out like a cookie cutter, yet the distortion is similar. I don't have a clue which way HJ might have used.

. The same little white bump! The other white bump above it should be the line of the inner fold of the pork pie.