ROTLA jacket: black rectangular sliders (buckle)

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:01 am

Maybe this could interest some people. I put riders in the dvd player to grab pics of most of the frames (i collected about 1.5 GB of frames in bmp) and i was looking for scenes with the sliders.

For my jacket i ordered the black rectangular sliders just because they looked better IMO but i never saw a clear image of them although i've heard they are both screen accurate for Raiders... today i was just looking for some prooves and i found a couple of scenes that maybe are enough clear to see the shape of the sliders. In these two scenes i'm 99% convinced that you can see rectangular sliders (buckle) and not D rings, these two shots are the only ones where i can identify the shape of them other ones where too unclear to be considered.

Tell me your thoughts guys

and remember i'm only speaking about riders and not all the indy movies

:post: this image is converted from bitmap to jpg although the bmp wasnt really better quality

About the first pic on the right, save the image and zoom on it

Harrison_Davies · Post by **Harrison_Davies** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:21 am

This is also the pic I posted regarding the backwards facing straps...curious!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:58 am

My thought is that I can clearly see a black, rectagular slider in the pic on the right. I doubt they are reversed, but just folded back over again.

Now, I've heard people claim they've seen the D-rings in Raiders. Now, THAT I'd love to see a frame of. I cannot find it so I don't see how I could have missed it if I did a framexframe on my pc. If anyone can see one, please post it or tell us where to look, pleaae.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:18 pm

I swear i looked at every frame where you see the jacket and the only frames where you can see the sliders they look rectangular and not D-rings.

The only other alternative might be pics from making-of. I have the making of raiders but it's on tape. I doubt i would get any clear pic from it.

PS a little off topic about socks that just came out of my mind now. In the Making of (+Greatest Stunts VHS) you can clearly see a scene when Harrison and then also a stuntman wore the long-debated black socks that actually in my screen grabs are everywhere but in the scene when he ride the horse. In all the other scenes socks are black (in front of belloq at the beginning, fighting around the plane, on the bantu wind... everywhere).

I believe black socks are part of the gear as well as the pleats for the shirt!

In the same VHS you can also clearly see what kind of socks they are... but i'm not expert of socks so i can't discuss a lot about them except the colour (if not black they are surely dark). i hope someone will post pics of that scene from the tape

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:37 pm

Good screen caps Erri-wan

Although I'd need to have them lighter to see anything in relation to sliders or D-rings

What those pics do tell us is, there were no gussets on the original jacket - certainly not for the one in those scenes - & the action pleat was a shallow one & lo-&-behold...open all the time

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:33 pm

Here's an enhanced version. I couldn't see much of anything in the first ones as they were really dark on my screen. I lightened these up a lot. It almost looks like a buckle! I guess that means it's not D-rings and is probably the rectangular ones.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:56 pm

Did anybody notice the armpits? No gussets.

Indycraze71 · Post by **Indycraze71** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:01 am

Looks kinda buckle like to me from those screen-grabs. Doesn't Peter claim D-rings? I've looked a while back and couldn't find enough evidence to swing me one way or the other. I went with the D-rings and they work just fine for me, but if you wanted to be totally screen accurate it may be hard to find that one screen shot or publicity photo to help you make a definative decision.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:31 am

Well i went for sliders and no gussets just because i preferred these two choices, i'm quite happy of that decision, i see now they're quite screen accurate

I believe D-rings were probably in the other two movies.

I don't believe there are any more doubts that in the scenes i picked up you CANNOT see the rectangular sliders, expecially after seeing the enlightened picture, Thanks indydoc.

If there were other jackets with D-rings, they are not visible in no one of the frames of Raiders. Till no one can show an enough clear pic about the Drings in riders i will always doubt there were D-rings sliders.

... in conclusion i still think that D-rings are very nice looking but i won't take them for raiders accuracy if i would want a new raiders jacket

---------------------------------------------------------

When me and MonkeyBrains (as well as KT Templars) were going to buy a raiders indy jacket we noticed there are not SO MANY information on indygear about it, neither so many pics of all the details of this jacket (not as many as for the hat). If i have a little time i could make a little website with all the screengrabs collection about the raiders jacket. Might be useful for all the future wested buyers.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:43 am

if you wanted to be totally screen accurate it may be hard to find that one screen shot or publicity photo to help you make a definative decision.

What do you mean? The proof is right in front of you up above!

Dude, THERE is your proof!
It kills me when you show difinitive proof and still there are those who doubt. Don't worry, it's not just you that I'm talking about. It happens here all the time.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:25 pm

*cough bag strap grooves cough*

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:32 pm

yeah it always happens

Indycraze71 · Post by **Indycraze71** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:57 pm

Whoops! I got misunderstood here and understandably so after re-reading my post. I meant that I agreed the screen shots show sliders I dunno why I put "buckles", but I was agreeing with erri_wan. And about finding the one screenshot or photo to help in making a call or decision on gear I meant that generally and not about what was posted. I have D-rings now but would probably get the sliders next time around. So good screens and call on your jacket erri_wan. Sorry for the confusion.

jaydoc1 · Post by **jaydoc1** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:45 pm

Skippy wrote:Good screen caps Erri-wan the action pleat was a shallow one & lo-&-behold...open all the time

That's true. With older Westeds the action pleats were deep, but they stayed shut, mostly. Now they are just as deep but they look like bat wings when they open (most of the time). At least the shallow pleats which stay open don't look like wings.

Got Maul · Post by **Got Maul** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:32 am

just because THIS shot shows you no gusset doesn't mean they weren't there. There is a lot of proof of gussets elsewhere, just ask Agent5-

Also, in terms of the action pleat being open, keep in mind guys, that the action pleat behaved differently back then because 1. The lamb hide was A LOT stiffer back then (in the way it was cured) 2. There was no lining to the effect of what we have today..and that was stated by Peter B. -

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:42 am

Gussets... right that's another thing to discover... i'll have a look also for that in all the frames i got

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:27 pm

Here's a new pic I captured today and tweeked brightness wise so you can see them better. The left one looks a little D shaped to me.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:13 am

What scene is this from? Can we have the original pic (not artificially enlightened) ? What's that black space under it?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:00 pm

It's from when it's on the front of the truck, just a different shot than you had.

You can't see/tell much if it's not lightened.

The black is the end of the picture, it's right at the bottom of the frame and the buckle pops up barley while he's bouncing around on the front of the truck.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:18 pm

Well i purposely decided not to consider unclear (natural) pics when looking for what kind of buckles we can see in Raiders. The pics i posted are few of the only ones were we can be really sure of what we see... and they look rectangular. I avoided any unclear pics.

Nonetheless your pics look like the famous D rings but i would never be convinced by looking at an unclear pic enlightened... i'll have another better look to see if i can notice any D-ring in my screen grabs anyway

:post: Just checked the truck scene screengrabs... in each one i can see rectangular sliders. Anyway could you post the same pic but full screen and not enlightened?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:47 pm

Yes. I can at some point, but it may be a day or more. I'm at work now, and busy most of tonight, and back it work the next day.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:14 pm

IndyDoc wrote:Yes. I can at some point, but it may be a day or more. I'm at work now, and busy most of tonight, and back it work the next day.

no problem

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:23 pm

If the D-ring turns around they tend to look square, too, so unless you've got a no-kidding-it's-a-closeup-of-a-slider pic, you may never know.

J

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:22 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:If the D-ring turns around they tend to look square, too, so unless you've got a no-kidding-it's-a-closeup-of-a-slider pic, you may never know.

J

That's why i avoided any not-clear-pics

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:31 pm

I'd say the pictures you started with were 'not clear pics' as well.

J

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:33 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:I'd say the pictures you started with were 'not clear pics' as well.

J

ha, and i thought they were

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:39 pm

The Flightsuits Expedition has always had gun-metal rectangular sliders. Apparently, the screen-used jacket (that Flightsuits used as a model) had metal sliders that were painted black. When the people at Flightsuits examined the jacket, the paint was chipping off the metal revealing brass-colored metal underneath. Peter was using one's that had a dark-metallic finish and then, Sunday I noticed Indiana Williams new Wested had ones that were brass. Here's a pic of my Daughter's Wested with rectangular sliders from two years ago:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 0/5eec.jpg

And a close-up of my Wested from 2003:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 0/1ebd.jpg

Regards, Dr. J

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:49 pm

I meant clear enough that you don't have to draw a little red box around something.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:02 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:I meant clear enough that you don't have to draw a little red box around something.

It was just to help to recognize the shape, it's in between two "not-drawed" copies

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:44 pm

Were all of the jackets used identical in every way? Ford's and the stuntmen's? Or could there have been variations in the different jackets?

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:45 pm

I've heard there were variations though you would think they would just "crank them out" with identical specs.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:47 pm

G-MANN wrote:Were all of the jackets used identical in every way? Ford's and the stuntmen's? Or could there have been variations in the different jackets?

There were Hero and Stunt Jackets, some of the stunt jackets had gussets retrofitted(?) for better movement I believe.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:50 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
G-MANN wrote:Were all of the jackets used identical in every way? Ford's and the stuntmen's? Or could there have been variations in the different jackets?
There were Hero and Stunt Jackets, some of the stunt jackets had gussets retrofitted(?) for better movement I believe.

If they were already retrofitting, it's possible they also ended up replacing D-rings w/ sliders if the D-rings were slipping during stuntwork.

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:54 pm

If they were on location and had a problem, I would think they would use anything on hand that would work.

I know I have objects around the house that have 3 phillips and 1 flat head screw holding something in place just because I ran out of one but the other did the same job.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:01 pm

Exactly. They could have pulled sliders off of anything.

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:06 pm

It could be that simple. Heck you could have had 3 people make the jackets, 2 use D rings, 1 uses sliders. Who's gonna notice!

US :!:

I'd bet the the folks that made them could not have guessed that 1 day a couple thousand people would be wearing those same jackets, none the less discussing them in detail the way we do.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:42 pm

erri_wan wrote:Can we have the original pic (not artificially enlightened) ?

You konw Erri, I had to lighten yours up too to see any detail also.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:53 am

IndyDoc wrote:
erri_wan wrote:Can we have the original pic (not artificially enlightened) ?
You konw Erri, I had to lighten yours up too to see any detail also.

I know but it was clear already in the picture not elightened

i just want to see the not photoshopped one

Anyway we haven't seen these famous D-rings yet in any scene, not at least as clear as my pics so speaking about the existence of them in raiders is quite pointless at this moment without any pic.
As far as IndyDoc's pic, i would like to see the original screen grab before shouting "drings! drings!"

I'm not saying they don't exist, maybe they do... but i would like to see them somewhere to be allowed to say that.

I'm still trying a way to put the Making of Raiders/Greatest Stunts VHS on divx to get some captures. Anyone has it on DVD already?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:44 am

Ok, here's the original.

BTW, these are photos of the TV and not screen captures, that's why they look a little less colorful and crip and a lot bigger than normal screen shots.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:52 am

Mmmh .. how can we trust a tv picture? THe slider is also cut by the edge of the tv! We can't really take it as a proof

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:19 am

It does look like a d-ring. But the other looks straight. Like was said before might be a spare part change.

VP · Post by VP » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:20 am

Hey erri, why are you talking in the third person?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:24 am

Sorry but it just seems to me the same scene i grabbed from dvd but in bad quality from tv... and i repeat, you can't even see the whole buckle. A section is cut away from tv edge.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:13 pm

erri_wan wrote:Sorry but it just seems to me the same scene i grabbed from dvd but in bad quality from tv... and i repeat, you can't even see the whole buckle. A section is cut away from tv edge.

Same squence, different scene. It's a much closer view than what you took. (If you can find it you can capture it from the DVD for your self and look at it) It'll be cut off to as it's right at the bottom of the frame.

I wouldn't really call the enlarged ones you used clear either.

What is wrong with photographing the screen as long as it turns out good? It's a large High Def. LCD TV not a normal TV either. I do think I should not zoom in as close if I take more pictures of it.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:17 pm

I will try to take new screengrabs of that scene

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:45 pm

I managed to catch Raiders on TV last night and paid particular attention to the truck scene.

I can say with much confidence that Indy is DEFINITELY wearing a jacket.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:55 pm

Sorry to sway off topic, but Erri did you get your jacket back with the replaced sleeves yet?

Doug C

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:58 pm

Dekker wrote:I managed to catch Raiders on TV last night and paid particular attention to the truck scene.

I can say with much confidence that Indy is DEFINITELY wearing a jacket.

Doug C wrote:Sorry to sway off topic, but Erri did you get your jacket back with the replaced sleeves yet?

Doug C

Yes

now it fits perfectly... have a look

viewtopic.php?t=14464&postdays=0&postor ... &start=100

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:48 pm

Oops, I actually already commented on the great fit.

Again, good job.

Doug C

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:55 pm

Doug C wrote:Oops, I actually already commented on the great fit. Again, good job.

Doug C

it happens to me all the time, don't worry

Thank you