Club Obi Wan

I have two Westeds at present (1 old Lamb and 1 new Goat) and will be ordering a new (final : ) one soon to replace both of these. The Lamb that I have was made before Peter changed up the jacket and made "improvements" but I like most of the features better than the new jacket that I have. Those (better) differences are that the old one has:
1) smaller and rounder pockets (new ones are too big and square)
2) no leather facing behind zips (I know you can request this)
3) no leather for the inside of the collar stand
4) Strap is hidden where it attaches to the back panel

Question is will Peter make my new jacket with these old features, I mainly want the smaller, rounder pockets and the cotton facing on the collar and zips.

Doug C

Doug, could you post some pics of your older jacket? I'd love to see it.

I didn't know there was a previous version of the Indy Jacket. Which one is more screen accurate? The new one or the old one?

Sure here are a few :

the first two show the old small rounder pockets that I like..

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/8342/jacket014pi.jpg

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/5716/jacket131dr.jpg

The next one is the back, notice the hidden strap (no place for Xbox stitching) as well as the arm seams in relation to the big panel. Also the action panel has a much shallower pleat which I like but only with modern elastic inserts to keep them closed.

http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/2827/jacket022ux.jpg

The last two pic you can see the lack of leather behind the zips AND sort of get a glimps of the lack of leather where the collar stand is

http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/8121/jacket188iq.jpg

http://img273.imageshack.us/img273/7536/jacket190kq.jpg

I love this jacket but am selling it 'cause I want the same jacket in a TofD length.

Doug C

Doug, I could have answered this for you!

Peter will do pretty much whatever you want, but it will be a custom jacket, which means it will be NON RETURNABLE.

The cotton facing on the inside of the collar was something Peter dropped after too many people came back to him complaining that the collar had worn out too quickly.

The minimal facing with the main zip is something he will do.

The rounded pockets should just be a matter of the cutting process.

The straps might be the sticker I think this would involve more work to do than attaching them outside as the current jackets, but if your will to pay the price...

Erri-wan - The old one is more screen accurate, as it follows the original specifications. Peter changed things in response to complaints that the collar wore out too quickly & the main zip caught in the lining too often. The pocket shape & the action pleat strap differences are more than likely down to a simplfying of the cutting & construction process.

Hope that helps

Erri - I believe the older ones are more screen accurate than the newer ones but that's just my opinion. I mean the leather facing was put on to correct a problem that some were having..pleats were deepend for a similar reasons, why pockets were changed I don't know.. Strap attachment points became visible.. my opinion is that too much tweeking has been done to the original pattern but when looking at the big picture they are minor points I guess. I think the old jacket would have been closer to what was original since those issues hadn't been addressed yet.

Doug C

Skippy wrote:
Erri-wan - The old one is more screen accurate, as it follows the original specifications. Peter changed things in response to complaints that the collar wore out too quickly & the main zip caught in the lining too often. The pocket shape & the action pleat strap differences are more than likely down to a simplfying of the cutting & construction process.

Hope that helps

I perfectly understand the reason about the collar and zip and it's fine... about the pocket shape and action pleat strap differences... mmmh he could have kept them if they were the same as the original couldnt he?
Anyway are there any really BIG BIG BIG noticeable differences?

I can see the pockets are a bit different... don't know about the pleats. My eye cant see a real difference

The reason teh action pleats are deeper is so they will stay shut. The shallow originals tended to lay open.

Does anyone know is Peter will still make the "Chris King Special"? Didn't Chris do a lot of research to come up with the exact specs for the Raiders jacket?

J_Weaver wrote:The reason teh action pleats are deeper is so they will stay shut. The shallow originals tended to lay open.

Ow i see

I believe the larger pockets are so you can put a Grail diary in them as in the LC.

Does anyone know is Peter will still make the "Chris King Special"? Didn't Chris do a lot of research to come up with the exact specs for the Raiders jacket?

The Chris King is just a slimmer fit, as was the original jacket. Yes, he did do the last major overhaul to the jacket and worked with Peter on alot of details, but I've found that depending on your own height, some of these may not work for you. The pockets are one example. My first 'Chris King' had standard pockets that were way too big for me. It looked almost silly. My next Wested had smaller pockets and worked much better on me.

What's the Chris King Special sorry?

The reason teh action pleats are deeper is so they will stay shut. The shallow originals tended to lay open.

I'd rather have the originals but add elastic to make them stay shut.

Doug c

I believe the larger pockets are so you can put a Grail diary in them as in the LC.

Yes but that should be only on the LC jacket and not every thing that's made..MHO.

Doug C

The cotton facing on the inside of the collar was something Peter dropped after too many people came back to him complaining that the collar had worn out too quickly.

That's a lame excuse, that would just be character in my eyes

Doug C

I think many of the changes we've seen have been done to ease production and save money.

That's a lame excuse,

Unless you are the guy who has to replace them, at your own cost,
because people complained about it.

Leather facings on the collar and the zippers help any leather jacket
wear better at high stress/contact points.

It also helps to keep the inside lining cleaner longer.

Just as a side question, if your old jackets are so much better, why do
you need to get a replacement? Are they that worn out after only a few
years?

Flathead

erri_wan wrote:What's the Chris King Special sorry?

From what I remember, and I'm sure there are some threads on this somewhere, Chris had a jacket made to the exact original specs of the original as he figured them to be. Keep in mind that this jacket was made specifically to be put on a manequin, so durability of stitching was not a concern. In fact, I believe that most of the seams were stitched in such a way that they would not hold up to much wear.

Maybe someone out there has more details on this.

Mike

Quote:
That's a lame excuse,

Unless you are the guy who has to replace them, at your own cost,
because people complained about it.

Seriously? How quick could the cloth against the necks be wearing out? If it lasted a season, and I'm sure it would have done much better than that, then there wouldn't be anyone replacing them for free. I'd be real suprised if it was real quick. Heck jackets have been made like that for years. So maybe the leather is an improvement but not completely necessary as to change permanently IMO, but certainly a great idea as an option.

Flathead wrote -

Just as a side question, if your old jackets are so much better, why do
you need to get a replacement? Are they that worn out after only a few
years?

Flathead

Well, I already answered that when I wrote this -

I love this jacket but am selling it 'cause I want the same jacket in a TofD length.

Doug C

Doug C

Doug C wrote:

The reason teh action pleats are deeper is so they will stay shut. The shallow originals tended to lay open.

I'd rather have the originals but add elastic to make them stay shut.

Doug c

Same here. Anyway, the newer deeper ones stay open more than the shallow ones on my old jacket.

When I order my next Wested I am going for most of the old specs you mentioned including the pocket size. I like them better and its more screen accurate IMO.

Also agree that the larger pockets should only be on the LC version.

I agree Tone, I've seen many pics where the cargo pockets look too big. I have no Idea when or why the change was made.

J_Weaver wrote:I agree Tone, I've seen many pics where the cargo pockets look too big. I have no Idea when or why the change was made.

The larger outside pockets are to accomodate the the grail diary like I said. Peter has stated in the past that sooner or later most people try to jam a diary in there anyway so he decided to change all of them to the larger size.

I'm sure you can request smaller pockets but it would be a non return option as Peter sees it as too much a change from a "standard" jacket.

Out of interest my pockets measure 14.5cm x 18.5cm on a 38 short. Can people post theirs to compare? I've always wondered if they are scaled to the jacket?

http://public.fotki.com/KtTemplar/weste ... later.html

This one has no zipper facings. I also like the look of the cloth collar facing but can see it being less hardwearing than the leather one.

PS.
This is older Wested courtesy of theraider.net





If we are talking screen accurate then shallower pleats (they seem to be held/sewn shut here imo) seem more accurate but the strap is correct in the new jackets:

Well if the pockets were sized to hold the diary (like the inside pocket is now bigger on all the jackets), then wouldn't the pockets look big on a 38 jacket and look smaller on a 48 or 50? Or does wested have a minimum size, and they are scaled up for bigger jackets....I think its one size, and the relation to the overall size is what looks "off". Answer that question and you'll know for sure

Hi Tone,

Do I take it right that you feel the pockets on your 2 jackets are a little too big? Can you give us some measurements? I know I used those "Newfangled" units but that's only cos I'm in Europe and that's the only ruler I could find at a pinch!

Looking at the pockets on my jacket I think they are ok, "might" be a touch big but the right size to be useful, any smaller and they wouldn't fit a cd, which seems to be the thing I most often put in them.

My 44L's are about 17cm x 20cm.

Kt Templar wrote:PS.
This is older Wested courtesy of theraider.net

That's IndyFrench's jacket, btw.

My jacket is a 46L and the pockets are 17cm X 21cm.

I agree Tone, I've seen many pics where the cargo pockets look too big. I have no Idea when or why the change was made.

It was about 2000 or 2001 when Chris King spoke to Wested about major screen accuracy changes on the jacket. Some of his theories were completely correct and others didn't work so well. The standard pocket size was changed at that time and made larger off of screen cap measurements from the Temple sequence.

Indiana_Tone wrote: KT,
My pockets are just fine. I was seeing some smaller sized jackets where it appeared as though larger pockets had been put on them is all and was curious if some people might be ordering them that way. Are "MY" pockets too big?! Not at all.

Well, I went down to Wested and had a look around. (Sorry guys, I'm about half an hour away from them.) And get a couple of xmas presents.

My jacket has a 38 label, but I'm convinced its more like a 40 LC length with modern fit. I found a 40 Raiders length Goat in 80's fit and it's just a little too tight across the back.

Anyway the upshot is the pockets on this goat ARE a little bigger on this than on mine. So maybe we can ask for one size down on the pockets?

It also had zipper facings where mine does not. I prefer it without, the front feels stiff with it. Of course it could be some of the "less comfortable" feeling is due to the difference between my broken in lamb and the spanking new goat!

Indiana_Tone wrote:Did you happen to see an 80s fit 42 goat in for sleeve alterations?
I doubt it's there yet. Customs is probably trying it on, taking it off, trying it on, taking it off.....

That's alright they can break it in a bit for you! They were a bit busy today so I didn't get a chance to nosy around the "to be completed" rail. I did notice a well worn one hanging up in the back, might have been in for a relining.

There was one guy went in for a fancy dress party bought a predistressed cow, shirt and pants all in 1 hit, he seemed a fan too, I tried to offer him my bag to borrow and Peter offered him his Dorfman but he didn't get the hint! By then I got involved with what I was doing and didn't see him leave.

Hey, just to reiterate the old style pockets were not only smaller but they were rounder on the corners too.. see this picture that I posted and compare it to the modern pocket that VP posted above.

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/8342/jacket014pi.jpg

Doug C

Maybe he has changed the placement of the pockets? Some of those pictures make the pockets seem farther away from the zipper, while others are very close. This could do with the individual cutter and sewer of the jacket, not the pattern itself.

Here's a couple of my 2000 vintage Wested. The pockets are rounder and the action flap is very small. (only 1" from the edge to the inner seam) You can't see it in these pictures but the storm flap seems a bit too wide too. (2")


(and the sleves are too short so I'm looking for another one)

IndyDoc wrote:Here's a couple of my 2000 vintage Wested. The pockets are rounder and the action flap is very small. (only 1" from the edge to the inner seam) You can't see it in these pictures but the storm flap seems a bit too wide too. (2")


(and the sleves are too short so I'm looking for another one)

Is that a Raiders? And what size is it?

Cheers,
Jeff

The pockets looks very screen accurate. I would have asked for that pocket shape if i only knew before that wested makes them not in the old style anymore

Yep see Indydoc's pictures help to show better what I'm talking about regarding the rounder pockets of the older jackets. I don't see why it was changed to a more squared off pocket - that should have just been an option (IMHO) you know, the LC Pocket option. I want the old ones, the ones from the original patterns.. on my next jacket.

Doug C

So, does anyone know if it's possible to request he old wested style raiders pockets when ordering a new jacket and if this would cost us more?

Gobler wrote: Is that a Raiders? And what size is it?
Cheers,
Jeff

I'm not sure actually. I assume it's Raiders. (no snaps) Did they have a choice of style back in 2000? The size is a 40. Being from 2000 it's pre-authentic brown also, so I'm not sure wether it's closer to authentic or dark brown. I like it what ever it is though.

#### i want that pocket size now

And i want those shallow pleats.....looks very nice.
Todays wested-pleats is way too deep....

How long are those side straps?

About 7-1/2". Rather long IMO.

Indywannabe wrote:And i want those shallow pleats.....looks very nice.
Todays wested-pleats is way too deep....

Honestly I prefer the new pleats but the old pockets are GREAT! WHy do i discover these things only after i bought one already? darn it

Not to rain on anyones parade but every single pocket flap I've seen in this forum is off. None of them have this much of a nice shape to them. To add to that, in this pic, the pocket seems like the ones Wested changed to. It doesn't have round corners as the jacket posted above and that many people say is more screen accurate. What do you guys think

That does look like the current "square" pocket shape. Hmm....

That has an interesting shape the front edge of the flap has an extra facet.

I think the shape on the sides of the flap is just because it's folded/creased.

After getting a jacket with the current sized pockets, I realized that they were just too big. I asked for mine to be sized at 19cmx15cm. They now look perfect to me.
I just found the original notes to Wested from several years back, asking them to change the size of the pockets based on certain screen caps from the Temple sequence.

Jsut for those curious. That pic of the pocket is form Raiders. It's at the beginning before he goes and gets the idol

Man there are just too many choices. LOL I didn't have this much trouble when I bought my car. LOL Now what should I go with for the closest screen accurate Wested.