Club Obi Wan

Been nearly a year since I got my jacket and Mola Ram's thread got me thinking. As much as I love my Wested, what would I have done different or what will do next time to make it more Raider-ish

- First off, I'd definately have it made shorter than even the Raiders Reg. Still looks a little long to be a true Raiders jacket IMO, but then again, I am fairly high waisted/longlegged.

- Action Pleats. I think they are too deep compared to what I see on screen and my old pre-Wested Leather Concessionaires jacket. I'd see if Peter could make them more "shallow" and/or ask for the elastic to help them from staying so open...

*er ... lost my train of thought for a sec... dang Victoria's Secret Special um, where was I... *

-The collar ... should be a little smaller IMO to be closer to Raiders. Not sure Peter would do this though.

- Size: I'd be tempted to go down to a size 40 from 42 to get an even tighter more snug fit, that I personally see when I watch Raiders

- Zipper facing. I'd lose it (again if P. would do it). I think the extra leather on the facing affects the overall and drape in just the slightest. Again, I am comparing it to my old jacket from the 80's.

- Sidestraps. So are sliders accurate to Raiders? I got D-rings. I want whats accurate to Raiders.

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Things I'd keep the same...

Hide: As much as I appreciate the goat, and its what I'd get if I was really going to use it for serious adventure and/or dragging behind trucks, for my money you can't beat the Lamb for accuracy, drape and in my experience its plenty tough enough and also light enough to wear about 5 minutes in South America. Seriously, I think the Lamb is vastly underrated in terms of its endurance and longevity.

Color: When I watch the movie I see a dark jacket, and I was tempted to go for the dark brown, but seeing the authentic in person, in behind-the-scenes footage and stills, and at the Smithsonian, there is no doubt in my mine that the Authentic Brown is the way to go. I think sometimes pics on here with the flash make it look lighter than it really is. I see some pics of the dark brown and it just looks too dark IMO. *Ducks*

I am probably forgetting some things, but am taking notes for another purchase down the road. These are just my opinions of how I see it and I realize that others will disagree, but the point is what would you different on your jacket purchase or what will you do next time.

Regards,
Bama

You know, there are certainly different schools of thought on what a Raiders jacket should be. Should it be a useful jacket or a screen accurate one? Well, I can tell you this is where M.J.S. (Multiple Jacket Syndrome) starts. The reality is you really need at least two jackets, regardless of your preference for the supplier.

There is no other hide that will ever look, feel, or drape like lambskin. End of story. But it will also wear (and I'm not just talking cosmetically) much faster than most other hides. For some this is a good thing, for others it's not. So if you're looking for screen accuracy, then this is the hide for you. Dark brown or authentic brown? I've got a dark brown FS Expo and an authentic brown Wested goat hanging next to each other in my closet. You know what? To my eye the dark brown is what I see on screen 90% of the time. So for me, a dark brown lamb is the most screen accurate jacket.

However I like to hunt, camp, hike, etc... My lambskin jacket never goes on those trips. My vintage cow US Wings jacket does. It's bombproof. Not even close to screen accurate but recognizeable as a Raiders jacket and it can take the punishment. Now the Wested goatskin, I imagine it could take quite a bit of abuse and keep on coming. Sadly I'll never know. I just bought it from Skippy and the arms are a shade too short for me (check the classifieds ).

My point is this, if you want your jacket to look like the one in the movie then you need a "costume" jacket. I love mine. If you want to actually do some exploring then you need a "real" jacket. I also love that one of mine. The two are never going to be the same jacket. Not in the foreseeable future anyway.

I'll do this the same way you did it.

Different
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X-Box stitiching: I am paying the price for not asking for this. When I ordered my jacket, I thought: "Pssh, I dont need that." Yes, you do. Is there any way to get double X-box stitching? I would do it, if there was.

Under arm gussets: Now, when I raise my arms over my head, the entire jacket goes with them. Rises up almost past my stomache. I understand that wiuth under arm gussets, this is reduced. Again, this is another feature that I thought "don't need" when I originally ordered.

Goatskin: Nothing wrong with the lambskin hide I got for my current jacket, I just want something else next time around, and there will be a next time, so I figured I'd give the authentic brown goatskin a shot.

Zipper on the right: I did not know that lefty-friendly zippers came standard on Westeds. Next time around, I will order a zipper that is righty-friendly, because I'm a righty.

Extra half inch on the sleeves: It's fine like it is now, just next time around, I would have that done.

Bama, I'm pretty sure D rings are screen accurate to Raiders, but they have a tendancy to slip. I got D rings as well, and don't mind giving the side straps a tug here and there. There have been times, though, when I didn't notice the sidestrap had come out of the rings completely, and I had to re-thread it. Sliders, from my understanding, either don't slip, or slip very little.

In a way I was lucky enough to have this oppertunity.some of the changes I requested on my new jacket are:

Collar size: I felt the standard size looks too big for the Raiders look so I specified a 2 1/2" collar.

Lining: orginally I got cotton body/ satin sleeves but after I got it I dodnt like the slick feel of the sleeves so this time around I am going with an all cotton lining.

other then that I loved my jacket the way it was, except for the size :evil:
Best Regards,
Joe

Buy one of each.

I would get it one size smaller and perhaps an 80s fit. The current jacket just has a bit too much space.

I'm the other direction, VP. I'd have a bit MORE space in mine. The jackets I have are great, mind you, but I NEVER seem to think about the colder months where I layer clothing, and that little extra room would have been MOST appreciated in my jacket. All I'd have to do is go up from a 42 to a 44 to pull this off...and oddly enough, remember that when I'm obtaining the cloth Raiders jackets...but never the leather versions.

Regards! Michaelson

A word about lambskin: Absolutely nothing beats it for drape and for sheer smoothness. It is an incredible hide. Also, if you are the sort that wants to distress your jacket, it makes for a malleable and expressive canvas.

I am a fastidious fellow, as most of you know, and I can tell you that lamb is very delicate stuff. You need to be careful. If I were a younger man, I would probably tear through it. As it is, I have backed into a stucco wall and put two surface tears that were repairable with Crazy Glue and brown shoe polish, which made them invisible. In San Francisco, I was climbing up onto a rail to take a photo and the keys in my pocket caught and tore two surface flakes and I applied the same fix.

This jacket is incredible for wearing around and for casual travel, but it is simply not meant for dragging over rocks and trees and dirt...

So, what would I do differently??? Nothing. I would keep my lamb as it is, but I would add another jacket to the stable: a horsehide.

I bought a dark lamb ToD with all satin lining last year. I love it and wear it religiously. It's pretty stock and has a very dressy look. I didn't want to lose the dressy option but I still wanted a rough and tumble Indy style jacket. The answer: get a second one for rough wear and save the 1st one for ritzy occassions. The second time around I gave a great deal of consideration to my climate which is generally warm and humid (mind you it's 26 degress as I write this). I want to wear this new jacket on every day possible. I chose the Raiders model and asked them to shorten the bottom by an extra inch. I also opted for the light weight of the lamb and a breathable all cotton liner. Satin can get very sticky. I omitted the inside pocket because I don't like how it feels or how it shows on the outside. Don't discount the toughness of lamb. I know it's soft and luxurious but it can really take a beating. It's thin and won't do much to protect you like other hides. It scratches and shows wear more and I think people equate that with not being durable. It will last and will take everything short of bullets and barbed wire. I've had an Avirex lamb A-2 since 1984 that I used to wear like a second skin. It looks like it's been through a war but there's zero punctures, zero tears. I get so many comments on the wear visable on that jacket. I want to achieve the same thing with my new one. Lamb doesn't sound very macho but it is the ONLY leather actually worn by Indiana Jones. I know the movies are works of fiction with multiple takes and multiple jackets used. I also know H. Ford didn't switch to a replacement jacket every time he hit the dirt, hit the wall or hit a Nazi.
Just read Hemingway's comments above. I'm really surprised. I guess there must a lot of variety in the quality of lambskins. Maybe I should be more careful with mine.

Thanks Strider, I thought it was the sliders.

Interesting to hear everone's different thoughts and opinions in what they see and want in an Indy jacket, and the obvious solution is to do what others have said and get more than one.

VP, you're like me, in that you're after the perceived short, snug fit of the Raiders jacket.



Havana, maybe you're on to something about the different variations of lamb, because mine seems pretty tough too. I also think its a great idea to have one "for show" and one "for go".

Hemingway, I forgot about the horsehide, THAT is probably what I would get if I was going for serious adventure. I would still like to get a LC in black (with some custom specs) for use as a motorcycle jacket. Dang it, lottery, hurry up! :evil:

I think I finally got the fit and size right for the jacket after a couple tries So the only thing I'd do different is get one in a different hide. I currently have the Lamb and I loved the durablity of the goat, but since horsehide is back, I may even consider that.

I have 2 Westeds that I'm going to replace with just one soon and I'll be requesting a little of each.. I'll be asking for Lambskin,dark brown,TofD length, Xbox stiches, No facing behind the zipper, and I'm going to request the straps to be raised just a bit.

Doug C

I've got an authentic brown goatskin. The only major change I would make is to get tapered sleeves. My wrists are too small for the openings. Other than that I would probably choose a different leather next time, one that can be distressed and end up the right color. I can't decide between lamb or cow. I don't know if I want to go heavier or lighter than my current jacket.

Has anyone felt strongly enough to request the straps to be reversed, I know there was some debate about it a while ago.

I think my next will be like this: Dk Brown goat, x box stitching, 2 piece gussets, tapered sleeves, raiders length, press studs on the storm flap, extra inside pocket, no zip facing, raiders collar.

Or maybe go with the shearling version .

What I DID do differently was to switch from authentic lamb to dark goat. I have never regretted it. Yes, authentic brown came out well in pictures, but I NEVER liked how it looked in person. I would look at my jacket as I wore it and not like the colour. Dark brown may be less "authentic" but it looks how I want it to. Also the lamb looked fantastic in photos (esp. distressed) but felt like a costume jacket. With the goat I feel like I'm wearing something substantial which nevertheless drapes pretty similarly to my lamb. I couldn't be happier in my choice and don't feel the need for two jackets.

Havana wrote:I know the movies are works of fiction with multiple takes and multiple jackets used. I also know H. Ford didn't switch to a replacement jacket every time he hit the dirt, hit the wall or hit a Nazi.
Just read Hemingway's comments above. I'm really surprised. I guess there must a lot of variety in the quality of lambskins. Maybe I should be more careful with mine.

Don't forget that Peter stated the lamb of yesteryear was wholly different to the lamb he gets now. I dare say Ford's jackets in Raiders were tougher than today's lamb jackets. I'm pleased that you're happy with yours though.

Does anyone know if the color of an Authentic Brown Goatskin jacket is the same color as an Authentic Brown Lambskin? I want to get a goat for my next Wested. See, I want a rough and tumble jacket, but don't want to lose the lightness of my lamb jacket. I was amazed when I first put it on at how light weight it was.

I am afraid that if I go with Cow hide or Horse hide, that I will get this heavy jacket that weighs on me, and I don't want that.

I've been told the weight difference between lamb and goat is noticable, but how noticable?

80's fit.
tapered sleeves with a zipper or cinch strap on the wrists.
smaller collar with hidden snaps for motorcycle riding.
side pull straps with eyelets and real buckles instead of sliders.
zip out thinsulate lining.

Strider, I've never had a lamb, so I can't really compare the two. However, I have an authentic brown goat and I find the weight very nice. Its certainly isn't as heavy has cow or horse. IMO you can't go wrong with a goat jacket.

"- Action Pleats. I think they are too deep compared to what I see on screen and my old pre-Wested Leather Concessionaires jacket. I'd see if Peter could make them more "shallow" and/or ask for the elastic to help them from staying so open..."

I had exactly the same problem with mine jacket (or shall I say action pleats)! I didn't like the way that action pleats were opening. That is why I decided to do something with this. I asked a tailor one day to stitch the action pleats more to the jacket. Below is a link to the pictures that show that change... Now I am more pleased with the jacket !

http://public.fotki.com/KrzysiekS/weste ... _-_update/

Regards,
Krzysiek

Krzysiek,

That's how they used to be made, a few years ago. From what I understand Peter made the pleats deeper so they stay closed better, but in my opnion it didn't work that well. The deeper pleats just give you more material to bulge out.

Exactly! I do not recall my previous jacket had this “problem”. That's why I think Peter should back to the old specifications! When you see any of the Indiana Jones movies you can notice that action pleats in the Harrison Ford’s jacket does not open in the way our jackets do. Why Wested should not use the old specs to create nowadays jackets? I'm wondering who else has the same feeling about it.


When I buy another jacket I will request action pleats as it used to be. I have snapshots (downloaded from the internet) of the original jacket auctioned some time ago.


Regards,
Krzysiek

Here's mt 2 cents about the changes Wested has made over the years. They all have been made to improve the jacket and ease production. Thats great, no problem there The jacket is still screen accurate enough to please 90%+ of people who want an Indy jacket. However, I'd love to see an option where we could get a jacket made from the actual original patterns not the improved ones. I hope the original patterns haven't gone the way of the original Raiders block.

J Weaver,
I don't think there ever were original patterns per se. Peter developed the jacket with Deborah N..dmn (sic). The process was Peter's inspiration to take a "James Dean" jacket, aka the famous red one from "Rebel Without A Cause" and cross it with an A-2. Viola! Indy-jacket. From the way he described it to us, it was a hands-on sort of thing.

BTW, I have worn cowhide, goat and lamb. Lamb is so light, you would almost think it was cloth. Cowhide feels heavy to me and goat is a wonderful compromise.

That is a good point Hemingway. However, if they were making a few dozen jackets per film wouldn't there have to be pattern to go on once the final design was decided?

J_Weaver wrote:That is a good point Hemingway. However, if they were making a few dozen jackets per film wouldn't there have to be pattern to go on once the final design was decided?

I think that is an excellent point, but not necessarily in this case, because time was of the essence and Peter had to come up with those in a matter of a week and a half or so before filming.
However, let's not obfuscate the point, patterns or not, the original jacket could be replicated with dilligent observations. If one were so inclined.

Krzysztof Smigiel wrote:When I buy another jacket I will request action pleats as it used to be. I have snapshots (downloaded from the internet) of the original jacket auctioned some time ago.

"Who's pleats are too deep!"



Actually these look quite deep to me.

On the issue of "snug fit", (80's fit from pervious thread) I figured its time open a new line of discussion on the loose vs. tight issue


I would offer that I have an old Avirex A-2 in cowhide which, when I first bought it, was a bit baggy and large. Not a lot...just enough to be annoying. (The size below it was too small for movement). One day, quite by accident, I was caught in a rainstorm, of the genre that Micahelson would describe as a "frog drowner." After drying it off thoroughly with a towel, and NOT putting it in a dryer, the next day, it was one form-fitting jacket.

Moral of the story: If you are REALLY going to wear your leather jacket, in all situations and elements, you may be happy that it was bit on the looser side when you first bought it.

Of course, if you are only going to wear it under optimum meterological and need-to-move conditions, than a form-fitting jacket is fine.

I've already got the order for my next jacket planned out.

The first time I got a authentic brown lamb TOD hybrid w/an extra inside pocket, xbox stitching, and press studs(everything else standard).

My next jacket is going to be a raiders DB goatskin w/back pleat elastic, no handwarmers(pointless IMO and flare out at the wrong times), no inside pockets(though I don't know how much a difference these would make on "the look"), and SLIDERS instead of D-Rings.

Zach, instead of no inside pocket, you could request a mininal facing around it. IMO the "super facing" Wested uses right now effects the drape.

I would request 80's fit and and inch or two shorter in length so that I can wear it easier with an empty holster... but other than that the Raider's i've got is great... too great... I'm looking into getting another one because I cant bare to distress the one I've got now...

I love my authentic brown Raiders jacket!
The only changes I think of for another jacket are different hides. I would like to wear a goat and horsehide for a few weeks to get a feel for it.
I would consider another Raiders style jacket in a different hide.

I'm trying right now to get Wested to agree to make me another one but with a front zip that reaches right to the bottom; having it finish 1 1/2" up from the bottom of the jacket just looks really weird to me. I did request it last time, but no joy.

Anyone know where there are any close-ups of an original Raiders zip and where it should finish? From watching the DVD it looks like it extends all the way down to me.

Zach, J_Weaver's right about the minimal facing; I got that on my pocket and it makes it drape as if there was no pocket at all, so I definitely recommend that. I also got mine with no facing on the zip to help with the drape and haven't had any problems with the zipper catching so far (they sew the lining far enough away from the teeth of the zip and tight enough for that to be fairly unlikely to happen), so if you want the right drape, I'd go for that too.

I plan on ordering my next jacket without the facing along the zipper as well. IMO on teh heavier leathers like goat and horse it makes the front of the jacket too stiff.

Are they going to do that with the one that is back with them?

Indiana_Tone wrote:I'd just have the handwarmers sewn shut. Everything else is fine.

Mine are Velcro-ed shut. I never really liked how they bulged open.

Hmm, wouldn't it be better from a construction/structural integrity point of view to not have handwarmers at all rather than sewing them shut after they are installed?

about pleats again... please look at this picture (taken from theindyexperience.com)

http://www.theindyexperience.com/news_a ... cket_2.jpg

Regards,
Krzysiek

Yup, the original pleats were reported 1.5" and thats what they look like in that pic. The pleats om my jacket are in the 2.25" - 2.5" range.

Krzysztof Smigiel wrote:about pleats again... please look at this picture (taken from theindyexperience.com)

http://www.theindyexperience.com/news_a ... cket_2.jpg

Thanks for the pic, yes that has smaller pleats, and it also has the straps facing the way all the jackets have right now too. I still think the pleats in the temple scene look bigger IMO, maybe the elastic would solve the problem?

Also that's a LC jacket and as we all know theat one is looser than the Raiders so might not need as deep pleats.

That's the one and only thing about my new jacket that I have a complaint about. The pleats are fxxxgxn deep about 3 inches. I had no idea or I would have requested the 1.5 inch..they make me look hunched back..Perhaps I can have the tailor sew them closed a little..

Cheers,
Jeff

Gobler wrote:..they make me look hunched back..

Jeff, you in good company. My girlfriend complains that my jacket does the exact same thing I think it's also to do with our short & stout figures

Would one of you guys post a pic? I like to see it.

I get my jacket back in two days. I'll get some photos then.

Cheers,
Jeff

Weaver if you were refering to me, then this pics shows what we're on about pretty well

Ah, I see what you mean. I'm not sure I see how the depth of the action pleat is causing it though. To me it looks like it is due to the fact the jacket is zipped and you are sitting. My ToD jacket bunches up similar to that if I try to sit with it zipped.

Thanks for posting the pic!

Here's my 2000 vintage Wested. The action pleats are only 1" deep from the edge to the inner seam! Also a good shot of the strap. BTW, how wide is the storm flap normally, mine's 2" and seems a bit wide to me.

Skippy wrote:Weaver if you were refering to me, then this pics shows what we're on about pretty well

That's exactly what mine does unzipped I don't know what I can do to solve it.

Cheers,
Jeff

Has anyone got a jacket with the elastic and they show us a pic of the pleats to compare please?

Mine was supposed to have elastic but oh well...

Cheers,
Jeff

Skippy wrote:Weaver if you were refering to me, then this pics shows what we're on about pretty well

Thats what I'm talking about Skippy!

They should look more like this...




IndyDoc's look right. I don't like the deep pleats. I'd rather have them shallow even if they hang open some ... more screen accurate IMO.