Club Obi Wan

I THINK THIS IS IT! An Akubra Pastoralist style block. Now I have had problems with the line circling the Raiders crown. It seems to be low in back high in front, and the transition midway looks fuzzy and uneven. Look how low the line is here and how it fades away. Look at the ribbon. If that is 1 1/2 inches, imagine a second ribbon above it would add up to 3 inches. The line is about 1/3 inch above that at 3 and 1/3 inches. The sides of the Pastoralist is advertised as 83mm, which is just about 3 and 1/3 inches. ....Now, the line is also seen higher, entering the back upper corner of the front dents. ...and produces a ridge across the very top of the front dent. ( That image can bee seen about 5 replies later in this post) .........SO, here's my hat shaped Pastoralist style, with 3 1/3 inch sides. When it's popped up, there are two lines circleing the crown. The line in back, the lower line, is the correct height and the upper line enters the front dents where it should! . In my last post I pointed out these bumps on the sides of the Raiders grey Here are the same bumps on my hat produced by the lower line The Akubra Pastoralist may not be the exact same hat used in Raiders, besides it's probably too thick a felt, - but I really think this was the style.

Oh my god! This is starting to look plausible!!

This is starting to look plausible!!

Or one of those ink blots that shrinks use, or even finding images in white clouds. I am afraid stress lines in the felt has multiple explanations. All that I see is a stress line, nothing more. But, I am not saying that someone, the costumer, or even Ford may have punched the hat down to age it, and make it look worn and created a stress mark in the process. When one takes the written account of the HJ in consideration, the telescope crown is still a stretch. But, it is fun to think about it. I personally would need an official word to convince me as the other explanations are more plausible. But, that is just me. Fedora

I agree Fedora. I think that all the funny bumps and lines we see were caused in the aging process.

Yes but look at this picture - it's SO Raiders - I don't think I#ve seen such a reverse taper coupled with a deep dent and still a straight front crease. Looks fantastic - just picture a brown ribbon on that. WOW

Heres a link to the Pastoralist, the one in the first post didn't work. http://www.everythingaustralian.com.au/ ... 0&cat_id=2 Height is described as 3 1/4, but 85mm is 2mm more than that. The Akubra has more taper than my hat- might not make a very accurate Raiders hat. Here's the pic of the upper line traversing the top of the front dent i had to remove from the first post.

I've have to give Fedora credit. Yesterday he pointed out my other telescope hats had too pointy domes. I knew that, but he motivated me to try this, because a tight telescope doesn't give you as pointy a dome. J_Weaver, I need to thank you too, because you suggested this style in this post a while back, and I said I would try it next. viewtopic.php?t=12486&postdays=0&postor ... t&start=50

3thou, I admire your never-ending quest to figure out the Raiders fedora. Even though I may not agree with many of your theories, I have nothing but respect for your drive to figure it all out to the nth degree.

Regards!

bink

Thanks Bink! I've been wrong before but this one feels pretty good so far. "Australian Model" works with this hat too.

3thou, no thatnks necessary.

Its kinda hard to tell from the pics, but does the Pastoralist give the very deep top dent without pulling in the sides?

Well, I've purchased an Akubra Colly and a Squatter this year. I spent a lot of time trying to find different pictures of these hats on the web. It seems older models of the same hats look different, like the blocks are a little different. Here's another picture of the Pastoralist, and it looks a little different blockwise than the current official picture. . The dome is a little flatter and the tucked in gap looks tighter. Who knows what this hat looked like 25 years ago. Maybe it had less taper. It's only currently available in Imperial felt which is thick. My squatter had the nice thin Superfine felt. I'll be looking everywhere for this style hat, but I'm not sure I'll order the current Pastoralist. But I'll probably have somethig on order or in my hands within the next two or three weeks. Here's another one. My mouthis watering! This one doesn' t look very tapered. Brim width on these is 2.88". That's a pretty tasty number.

As always, three_thou, very interesting! And if nothing else, that would make a good hat for a Raiders conversion on a budget. I've never been 100% sold on any one theory or story, but it's always seemed to me there has to be something beyond "We found this hat sitting in a shop". Fedoras of that period really weren't available in the late 70's/eary 80's, especially when they wanted one with slightly larger proportions to make it distinct. Personally, I've always believed the Raiders hat was created by heavily modifying something else. No "Poet" I've ever seen has quite matched the Raiders hat. And it's only recently with Adventurebilt, PB and a couple others that we've seen a good replica that was designed to be one from the start. It HAD to be another hat, which they morphed into what they wanted.

the fox mulder of indy gear!

Vannevar wrote:the fox mulder of indy gear!

I concur.



I may not be a supporter of all your theories either, $3K, but you do have some of the greatest fedora discoveries under your belt. Kudos for your vision and persistence!

3thou, I have a Squatter also. It its the only hat I've ever seen in person that will flap in the wind like the Raiders hat. I'd love to have an AB made out of the same felt as the Squatter.

whiskyman wrote:Yes but look at this picture - it's SO Raiders - I don't think I#ve seen such a reverse taper coupled with a deep dent and still a straight front crease. Looks fantastic - just picture a brown ribbon on that. WOW

Yeah, I gots to concur. It looks like the bird's eye shot of tapping the temple floor with the torch, and I've never seen another hat look like that...

I was just going to talk about the scene, schwammy! I blocked the hat on a home-made block about a year ago. But I wasn't happy with it, and one big reason was I wasn't getting any bumps AT ALL inside the top bash. Now precisely Raider's-accurate bumps are there, thanks to the upper line of the tight telescope shaping. ..........Here's that scene from the temple. Click the link and note the circular crease that goes straight across the bash, over the humps, goes into the shadow on the near side, then re-emerges and heads for the corner of the front dent. http://www.raidershat.com/linetorch_op_800x600.jpg My hat is a Miller with thick felt, that's why the creases are too fat. There's really very little going on in the Raiders top bash. The shadow in this pic indicates the most noticeable landmark.

3thou...
Have you considered the "Plainsman"? It has a taller crown, but the same block design.

That is very interesting. The biggest anomoly for me is the top dent. There is one scene (i think in the temple) that the top dent looks very deep. I've never been able to get a top dent that deep without pulling in the sides.

Keep up the work, you may be on to something. Let me add this to your theory. Perhaps the hats were aquired through the means we've all heard. Perhaps you are correct in that the marks were created my a porkpie/telescope crown. However, maybe this happened during the distressing process?

The Plainsman is just a slightly taller Squatter with more taper. I think that would be called a "soft telescope". My Squatter wasn't close. Plus in relation to the ribbon width, I don't think the height was over 3.5 inches ......Nadoolman described the distressing as rolling it up and sitting on it,.. but now that I've done it, producing a tight telescope is a lot of work- getting the height even all around, then pinching that crease tight, getting the inner crease even, then pinching that one all around (if I didn't pinch that one, the upper crease wouldn't be there.)....Try it, it's not easy. ....Scandinavia Jones- I love that UFO hat poster!

I get this line across the front bashes from the lower line. Since this felt gets pinched outward, when the front bashes get pushed in, it tends to erese these lines. (I pinched 'em fresh for this shot.) Still, there might be evidence in the Raiders hat. Some of you won't see anything, but I think I see the same line, http://www.raidershat.com/Page3.html that even puts a little blip in the front crease.

Scandinavia Jones wrote:

very funny Scandinavia Jones


Interesting to see pics of this theory... i'm quite new to all this, if i can ask you something, i only have a humble question: If Herbert-Johnson made the original hats... why would they sell us a different hat of a completely different block?

Because they're greedy and evil.

Just kidding.

erri_wan wrote:If Herbert-Johnson made the original hats... why would they sell us a different hat of a completely different block?

Raiders of the Lost Block...
Good question. Most likely, if not destroyed by accident, the Raiders block is still around...somewhere in the deeps of wherever Herbert Johnson's warehouse is. Why not use it for the present-day Indy fedoras? Hmm... if memory serves, this has been up before... didn't someone actually contact Richard Swales about this?:-k

It seems like I heard somewhere a while back that they were planning on bringing back the old block style. I'm not sure what became of it though.

VP?

Deborah Nadoolman says she didn't think Richard Swales had anything to do with the Raiders hat, so he could have been unaware that hat was a telescope. Dakota Ellison was getting answers from Deborah, but she didn't respond when he asked her if it was a telescope. ................. If anyone cares to look, at the entrance of the Peruvian temple, both lines are visible on that Hawaii hat, the lower line on the left side of the hat, the upper line for a few frames when he bends to scoop sand. Since that was the last location filmed, it is unlikely that is the Cairo hat, unless it's been cleaned and reblocked. It's not turned either. If it's not the Cairo hat, why would it have telescope lines? If it has been cleaned and reblocked, how could the lines still be there? The hats may have been open crowned and formed into telescopes by hand. Maybe by Ford or Nadoolman, maybe in the shop using steam possibly.

3thoubucks if you want a help I could capture for you the pics you need for your theory from the DVD.

Floribama Steve wrote:VP?

They don't care about blocks or screen accuracy, just money.

I am sure I have said this before but I will say again. Does it really matter what the original way of getting the Raiders hat to look the way it did was? What matters to me is getting my hat to look like the Raiders one and if 3thoubucks method works then who cares about anythign else?

Ken

VP wrote:

Floribama Steve wrote:VP?

They don't care about blocks or screen accuracy, just money.

I was actually hoping you'd do your trademark "link post."

"Yes, we also used to have them with a black silk liner ( at this point he mimed with is fingers typing) but we received so many emails from those film fanatics that we changed back to the white. They send us stills from the films and everything, most odd!"

viewtopic.php?t=13632

They called us odd. :evil:

VP wrote:
They called us odd. :evil:

how can we blame them?

I just noticed this in another thread. According to Michealson they are all Poets. Check out the porkpie at 10 o'clock!

J_Weaver wrote:I just noticed this in another thread. According to Michealson they are all Poets. Check out the porkpie at 10 o'clock!

I have to admit starting to cringe when I hear the word 'porkpie'..
Tell me honestly folks..of the hats to choose from, would anyone select a porkpie to use as their "base" hat?
If you were making a movie taking place in the 30's, what would you choose to make your hat from?

Feraud wrote:Tell me honestly folks..of the hats to choose from, would anyone select a porkpie to use as their "base" hat?
If you were making a movie taking place in the 30's, what would you choose to make your hat from?

I totally agree. I'm just thinking out loud so to speak.

that porkpie has a too little brim to be the raiders hat.

erri_wan wrote:

VP wrote:
They called us odd. :evil:

how can we blame them?

We're not odd, everybody else is.