Review of a JPdesign prototype fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:19 pm

I received one of Jimmy's new prototype Indy fedoras yesterday, and have the following to say in review:

It's a VERY nice hat. The one I received is black (it's the one he shows in the vendor section in his 'hats' link) 100% beaver with grey band. The felt is, to my feel, a bit heavier than an AB, but the finish is VERY velvety in softness....a VERY nice finish. The fit for this weirdly shaped head (mine) was dead on, so I was absolutely amazed at how comfortable it was right out of the box. Jimmy has the Raiders styling down pat, as he was doing this styling when he worked at PB years ago. The hat has no liner (they're on order), and the sweat VERY soft, with nothing embossed, so if he's planning on having anything in there, he'll have to say.

Jimmy can fill in the exact details of construction, but all in all, I'm VERY pleased with this fedora, and since I have no black fedora in my stable, am pleased to have it.

If you have any specific questions, ask away, and I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability (and memory). Anything I can't remember, I'm sure Jimmy can fill in the holes.

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:37 pm

How shapable is the hat? I know there have been stories of some PB hats which have been cowboy stiff and others which have some "life" to them. I know my AdventureBilts will form easily when coaxed. If you wear Jimmy's new hat and toy with the brim, will it shape to the touch or spring back in place to where it was? I must admit I've become spoiled by how responsive the AdventureBilt felt is. Over all, though, it sounds like Jimmy sent you a very nice fedora!

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:40 pm

It's about the same, though a bit stiffer than an AB right out of the box when talking about the crown. The brim IS the same, in my opinion. Bear in mind, it's 100% beaver too, not a blend, so it has the same capabilities in shaping or spring of other highend beaver felts, like Steve's.

He says he's thinking about a slightly thinner felt. This may be a good idea, though this is by no means in the 'western craftsman' type hat, as say, a PB custom, but it has more of a heft than the AB, but not as much as a PB in hand.

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:58 pm

Um, Michaelson, maybe you should sent it to me for... umm... a review.. 8-[

I like the way 100% beaver felt reacts. I think my first AB has a pretty good thickness to it, so I personally couldn't imagine going much thicker without thinking of cowboy felts and the like. If Jimmy is going to source thinner felt, I think that's a good thing for an Indy hat. Still, I've had some pretty thick hats that have been nice fedoras, so it's not a slam at the quality of the hat.

Do I recall correctly that Jimmy uses machinery in the making of his hats? I'm not critisizing this, either, just trying to get my facts straight. I've owned plenty of "machine" hats (vintage and new) that have been very well made. Knowing Jimmy's expirience, they'll be well made, either way.

It will be interesting to see the comparrisons to the AB and Jimmy's fedoras when put side by side. I think Steve has an exceptional product, especially since his hats are 100% beaver AND 100% hand made creations. I think he will likely keep a niche with that. If Jimmy's hats are 100% beaver yet involve the use of some machinery, I think it may just come down to a personal preference of having a quality hand made fedora or a quality "machine assisted" fedora. The price points will also be a big consideration. Steve said it himself that he only wants to turn out one hat a day, whereas to have "big business" goals demands you have the machinery to aid in quickening production time.

If presented with the choice, I will likely go for a 100% hand made hat. I will always be an advocate for the AdventureBilt. Yet if I had money to spend on one hat per month, there's no question I'd be buying tons of hats from different vendors. Just because I love the AB doesn't mean I can't spot another good hat when I see it. I just wish I had the money to buy them all!

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:00 pm

Jimmy will have to answer that one, bink, but in review of the stitching, it looks all hand done to me, so I'm clueless what he's doing in his own shop.

As for me...I've had a bit of a hand in almost all of our vendors creations, and I love them all equally, so there IS no particular 'favorite'. I'll admit to wearing one a LOT more than the others, and it's not even an Indy shaped fedora! How's THAT for an eyeopener?

Don't bother asking which, as I don't play favorites in public, or at least I try not to.

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:04 pm

Oh, great! Make everything more difficult when choosing to buy a new hat!

I would love an answer to that question, though. Is there an approximate price range set on these hats yet? You know, this must be how hat buying used to be in the old days. You go in wanting a hat and get worked up over the quality choices!

What a time to be into this hobby. Nowadays you've got plenty of good choices in all aspects of gear collecting!

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:06 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:What a time to be into this hobby. Nowadays you've got plenty of good choices in all aspects of gear collecting!

bink

....and unlike the old days, NONE of your choices are junk!!! WIN-WIN!!!

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:08 pm

What's a gearhead to do...? GROUP HUG!!!!!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:10 pm

LOOK OUT FOLKS!!!!! PROTECT YOUR WALLETS!!!!!!!!

Regards! Michaelson

JPdesign · Post by **JPdesign** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:36 pm

all hand made, Wood blocks and flanges, hand sewn,

The fet is thinner than a western felt, but thicker than a dress felt.
I am useing an uncommon weight of body that is not usually found these days.

as for embossing the sweatband, my next batch I get will probably be embossed with a logo.

nice and soft, nothing like a western hat.

Thanks
Jimmy

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:51 pm

Wish I could offer a comparison of the band to another hat...but I can't. It's really comfortable.

Regards! Michaelson

JPdesign · Post by **JPdesign** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:59 pm

It is a roan leather sweat, just a certain finish.

Jimmy

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:08 pm

JPdesign wrote:all hand made, Wood blocks and flanges, hand sewn,

The fet is thinner than a western felt, but thicker than a dress felt.
I am useing an uncommon weight of body that is not usually found these days.

as for embossing the sweatband, my next batch I get will probably be embossed with a logo.

nice and soft, nothing like a western hat.

Thanks
Jimmy

Thanks for the answers, Jimmy. I guess we'll now have TWO vendor options for a 100% handmade Indy fedora! Do you have an idea what you'll charge for the final product?

bink

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:42 pm

How about dimensions? Ribbon width?

JPdesign · Post by **JPdesign** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:05 pm

Made to measure. Will do specs as requested.
Generally 5 3/4 open crown
2 3/4 x 2 1/2 demensional brim.
1 1/2 inch ribbon, box bow with v crease
hat crease to the scene in the movie, or generalized to each movie, or generalized between all three.

Thanks
Jimmy

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:38 pm

I think it may just come down to a personal preference of having a quality hand made fedora or a quality "machine assisted" fedora.

I'm not understanding the logic in this. Why would it make any bit of difference so long as it's a quality hat? Doesn't every hat have to be sort of 'machine assisted' at some point? Shouldn't the end result be the deciding factor of any product, not the road you took to get there? If any company were making fedora's off an assembly line with the same attention to detail and quality AND at half the cost of the hightly touted AB's you'd ALL be buying the assembly line hats. Period. Of course Bink would still buy them from Steve while getting an assembly line hat behind his back, but that's besides the point.

(JK)

All kidding aside, I just can't think that that would be an issue.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:01 pm

What, me buy anything other than an AB?!

If money permits, I keep buying hats I like, regardless of who makes them. What I ment by that comment is to say that all things being equal, if the quality was identical, and the price was more or less even, I like having certain things that were made by hand. There's something extra special in a quality product that has been created by a skilled craftsman. I'm not saying Jimmy or any other hatter is not a skilled artist. On the contrary. Jimmy's credentials are held in high regards by many. I have never owned one of his hats, though, so it is unfair of me to judge them personally at this time.

It seems to me that most hats on today's market likely have the sweatband machine sewed in and that much of the hat making process (after the felt bodies are made) are "production run" hats. The Dorfman is a "machine" hat. If the materials, quality, and price of the Dorfman matched the AB titt for tat, and I only had the cash for one or the other, I'd still go with the AB, simply because of the personal touch associated with it. A hand-stitched sweat versus a machine stitched one that puts many extra, tiny holes in the felt. I guess I don't like the infamous Herbert Johnson brim-ripping-during-reblock feature included with the modern HJ, especially if I'm going to pay serious bucks for a hat! THAT'S what I was getting at.

Now Jimmy has answered all my questions, except for price, which he may not have settled on yet, which means that his hats are just as "handmade" as Steve's. At this point, then, it appears as if another excellent option for an Indy fedora is becoming available to the fan. I'd love to see one of Jimmy's new hats when production gets under way, but I don't have tons of cash just floating about to spend. I know personally what to expect from an AB, but not from one of Jmmy's creations. Does that mean his hats are horrible? Absolutley not! It just means I need to win a lottery so I can afford every single piece of gear on my wish list.

bink

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:14 am

I see where you're coming from and I never intended to insinuate that you questioned JP's credentials. Just to be clear. I don't care what everyone else say's about you, Bink, you're an ok guy by me.

I just wonder that if someone could make a hat of equal quality to that of the AB or Optimo for the cost of the Fed, what would happen? Would people go so nuts over that new candy as much as people go overboard about the AB's and would Steve take second seat as hat vendor or would the AB fanatics stick together and stick to their guns?
I always feel I have to clarify that I'm not digging at Steve here as even he has said that the fanfare is a little overboard. I know it's not him, it's the overzealous members here.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:50 am

Come now, agent5, I believe you knew the answer to that one before you even typed the post. Think about the past FS vs. Wested debates....the Optimo vs. whomever makes a different hat debates....paper vs. plastic....

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:54 am

Oh, I know where you're coming from, agent5. I'm not taking anything personal. ...I love you, too, man!

I just wonder that if someone could make a hat of equal quality to that of the AB or Optimo for the cost of the Fed, what would happen?

Well, it's kind of like my feelings with Optimo. I think your Optimo is an incredible fedora, but it doesn't make sense for me to pay the money for an Optimo when I can get a hand made, 100% beaver fedora that's just as good for considerably less, hence the AdventureBilt. Currently, the AB is the only 100% beaver Indy hat that I know of in its price range. You pay more for something similar elsewhere. Now this may change with JPDesign throwing his hat into the ring, as it were. (Pun intended.) If Jimmy's hats are considerably cheaper than the AB, then of course folks are going to flock to this hat. But I think Jimmy is in the hat business as a business, and not just a fan-based hobby/business. I'm sure he'll have more overhead to take care of than Steve. Still, if JPDesign's Indy fedora price is comperable to the AB, it will be interesting to see how things pan out. I'm sure his offering will do well, though.

I am an advocate of the AdventureBilt because of the quality of the product, the vintage "process" of making them, and the exceptional customer service of its creator. Customer service goes a VERY long way for me, and if given a toss up, I'll go with my personal experience of proven customer service over the competition, even if it means paying a little more sometimes. I am hoping to save up for a new hat this winter (if I can get away with it) and am (surprisingly) hoping for an AB grey. Yet I wish I had the cashflow to support every vendor here, because there IS a lot of great quality stuff to choose from. But after owning several new beaver hats (as opposed to my vintage ones) I am spoiled by it and figure if I buy another new hat, I want beaver. I am looking forward to seeing how JPDesign pans out, because if it's in the price range of the AB, I may have to save up for one of Jimmy's, as well!

bink

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 9:11 am

Anyone have the link to JP's sight?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:18 pm

It's in the vendors announcements area under 'Up and running'.

Regards! Michaelson

SHARPETOYS · Post by **SHARPETOYS** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:05 pm

So what is the price of this new offering please!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:43 pm

Not to be speaking for Jimmy, as this is HIS show, but I don't think he has all his numbers together yet, ST. He's still awaiting his liners (none came in my prototype), he was still looking into having the roan sweats embossed, and he was still sourcing ribbons, so this is still a work in progress.

That said, though, if he HAS a price in mind, I'm sure he'll stop by and let us know.

Regards! Michaelson

Kilgour Trout · Post by **Kilgour Trout** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:29 am

Hey Folks! It's the 30th of November

already....has anyone heard if JP has any numbers on his lids yet. Christmas is coming wary wary sooooon

and there's nothing like a festive new lid to start the year off with eh!

Kilgour Trout

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:32 am

I don't know if he offers them with white, fuzzy trim, Kilgour.

Kilgour Trout · Post by **Kilgour Trout** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:38 am

Oh Man!! that's just not fair

. Bink..Leave it to you to put a twist on things

. If we ever have a full blown "Winter" Summit we'll have to figure out the fur trim thing eh!

Hmmm....where do we get White beaver? El bino's are really hard to find but perhaps if we just scare 'em real bad?

Been up since 4 working on planes...must....wake...up...find....white.....beeeeaaveerrrrrr

Killllgoorrrr

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:54 pm

Don't you remember the hat from the Indiana Jones Holiday Special?

http://public.fotki.com/binkmeisterRick ... edora.html

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:50 pm

You can always tell when a graphic designer has WAY to much time on his hands!

As to prices, the ball is in JP's court on that one. I have no idea what he's come up with yet, so he'll have to answer that for you. Drop him a line!

Regards! Michaelson

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:43 pm

Now you need to buy an Optimo.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:44 pm

Why?

Honestly, it's one of the only examples I HAVEN'T owned to date.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:13 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:I don't know if he offers them with white, fuzzy trim, Kilgour.

What, like this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/ ... t_ITG2.jpg

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:04 pm

Even better! And there's a cute elf to show of the hat, too!