Club Obi Wan

Well, like I said in the other thread, I'm taking the plunge into making a whip. The end goal will be a ten-foot, 12-16-plait bullwhip. Since my skills aren't yet honed to perfection, I'll not be using kangaroo hide for this as it's more of a "See what I can do," situation.

I could have picked a better time to start, though. I'm rotating into graveyard shift at work today and have to leave here at three PM. But, I'll be taking the stuff with me and will hope to work on it during the slow periods.

I'm still kinda put off by the size of the bullwhips I looked at over at the Down Under Saddle Supply store I went to 2 days ago. So when I went to Home Depot yesterday, I got some core material that was a little bigger than was described by the good folks here and the online information I was able to hunt down. I did find a used copy of this book:
1 "Whipmaking - A Beginners Guide"
Dennis Rush; Paperback; $24.99
Which was shipped and received by me in TWO DAYS! Kudos to Aximino Books for the fast work they did. I have ordered these 2 books:
1 "Whips and Whipmaking"
David Morgan; Paperback; $8.34
1 "How to Make Whips"
Ron Edwards; Hardcover; $16.47
And hope to get them on Halloween (According to the UPS website).

Anyhooo, I went to The Home Depot and picked up a couple of items to be used for a metal core:

..and I went to Tandy and picked up 11 feet of material. I have no idea what the material is made from, but since it's the first try at this I just got the stuff that had the right texture and thickness. The fella at the counter said it's work for what I was doing, and almost demanded that I bring in the finished product so he could take a look. I also got some waxed thread.
The nail is aluminum and about a foot long. The threaded stock is thicker and the same length. I cut some strips from the thicker leather I had from the last time I was playing around with leather (I sew together occasional Zippo cases) and did a six-plait around the threaded stock. It didn't do as well as I thought it would. I'll have to stick with the nail and some thinner material. I'll have to do this at work tonight.

Well, that's it for now. I was up most of the night with an upset stomach (Never use CLR to clean your tea boiling pot) and have to stuff out a few cigarettes for the Wife. I know it's going to be a slow process -which is good because I'm a very patient fella. I want to get this right.

I'll update on this thread with pics when I achieve more. And, I'll be lurking from time to time.
-Bye!

RandallFlagg wrote:I could have picked a better time to start, though. I'm rotating into graveyard shift at work today and have to leave here at three PM. But, I'll be taking the stuff with me and will hope to work on it during the slow periods.

Good luck on your first attempt. I hope you sucessfully learn how to make one.

I always thought that the graveyard shift was the one that starts at midnight?

Well, we do 6PM-6AM every 2 weeks, then we switch to 6AM-6PM.

The great thing about these 12-hour shifts is that I spend less time driving to and from work, and I get more time with my Sons.

RandallFlagg wrote:..and I went to Tandy and picked up 11 feet of material. I have no idea what the material is made from, but since it's the first try at this I just got the stuff that had the right texture and thickness. The fella at the counter said it's work for what I was doing, and almost demanded that I bring in the finished product so he could take a look. I also got some waxed thread.

Randall,

If I may, I'd like to warn against taking advice on whipmaking from any other leatherworkers than whipmakers. It's not that they don't have knowledge and experience with leather, and there is much you can learn about leather from them, but plaiting is quite a different thing, especially whips.

I'm just venting a bit from my frustrations with my local tandy store. I went in there to get some bolster material and waxed thread, and while looking through the leather, I overheard the manager speaking to a customer.

The Customer was trying to make his own chaps I think it was, and he had spoken to a professional who told him a specific leather to use. The tandy manager was telling him that he was wrong and that is the wrong type of leather to use, and that he should buy this other leather instead. She said that the professional that he had spoken to was an idiot and didn't know what he was doing. Thankfully the customer just left.

Then the manager came over to me and asked if I needed any help, and I told her exactly what I was looking for, and asked if she could help me find it. We chatted a bit about the whips and I told her that I make kangaroo hide whips, and that I was just looking for bolster material. She told me that Kangaroo was no good for whips, and that I should use their highest quality tooling leather for braiding, she said it was much stronger than kangaroo. I was in shock. And the leather he tried to sell me cost more than twice as much as the leather I was going to use for bolsters. I just told her I appreciate her advice, but I will stick with what has been working for now.

I just wanted to pass that story along as a precaution.

On to the whipmaking, Randall, study those books hard, but at the same time realize that every whipmaker does things differently, those books are an excellent reference, and a great starting place, but every whip you make look for a way to improve on the books design. There really is no right or wrong way to make a whip. You just find what works best for you.

The nail that you picked up will probobly work best for a handle. That is the standard handle for the indy whip. But if you are wanting to make an indy copy you'd have to grind that nail down to 8 inches, or go buy an 8 inch one.

Wow, I've been blabbing for a while here. If you have any quesitons feel free to pm or email me.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

"His @#$% Paul knows. Listen to him you must or fubarred all will be."

--From Whoada, Yoda's whipmaking nephew

Yeah, picking out good leather and know how much it takes to make a whip take a certain amount of experience. I've been meaning to make an Indy whip from a single hide, but right now I pick out two matching hides for every whip above six feet long.

I think you'll get good results by combining the best techniques and ideas from all the books you bought. For instance, Ron Edwards shows how to build the foundation for the butt knot by using a strip of leather and tacks (you can use staples intead of tacks) and Dennis Rush uses string and some kind of wood putty. I tried Rush's idea and it's a pain in the %$#, so I'd recommend using the Edwards idea. It's cleaner and faster.

Also, Rush shows how to build a 12-plait bullwhip using a 4-plait belly, an 8-plait belly, then the overlay. You can get by just using two 4-plait bellies, especially in cowhide.

The only other thing I'd say is that when putting a lot of layers in a cowhide bullwhip the whip can get big really fast, so experiment and you might find using only one plaited belly instead of two or not using any bolsters will make a nice-sized whip

Actually, I was hoping you'd make an entire whip from duct tape and then send it to the 'Red Green' show. I can see it now--

"not only can you build a new fan belt with it, you can also build a whole Indiana Jones costume from it!"

-Adam

Randall, Can't wait to see how this project comes along, its going to be a great learning experience. You are getting some fantastic information here.

winrichwhips wrote:"Actually, I was hoping you'd make an entire whip from duct tape and then send it to the 'Red Green' show. I can see it now--

Adam, I was thinking the same thing. It also kinda reminded me of that guy who made the Duct tape fedora on here a few years ago.

Dan

Well, it's been eight hours into the shift and I still haven't cut any more than trimming off the sharp edges on the big pieces. I've spent most of my free time measuring, marking with a pen, remeasuring, tracing and reading. I sure wish I'd ordered those other 2 books earlier, but I had to wait for some $$$.

I don't think I'll cut into the strips tonight. I have to re-sharpen my knife and I don't want to start something I won't have time to finish. Tomorrow will be the day. Considering I'll be cutting this whole thing by hand, I want to get it right.

midwestwhips wrote: Randall,

If I may, I'd like to warn against taking advice on whipmaking from any other leatherworkers than whipmakers.

Oh, I wouldn't worry about that. I've heard some Tandy employees say some pretty outrageous things over the years. I'll trust you good folks long before I'll trust them. Besides, I just went there for the preliminary practice purchase. When I get the good stuff, it'll most likely be from Ebay.

winrichwhips wrote:Actually, I was hoping you'd make an entire whip from duct tape and then send it to the 'Red Green' show. I can see it now--

"not only can you build a new fan belt with it, you can also build a whole Indiana Jones costume from it!"

-Adam

LOL!! I was rather tempted to do that just for kicks, but that duct tape gets REALLY sticky after a while.

Well, I went and did the cutting for the core and braided it to the spike. I'm probably going to undo it tomorrow and tighten it up a bit more.

I'm really tired now and need to go pass out.

Does your belly have a core? Try putting some tapering strips of leather inside the core right after the spike so the diameter of the braid doesn't drop off at the end of the spike. Using a core will also make it easier to get a tight braid as it fills in the gaps in the center of the braid.

-Adam

That is the core. I still have to measure and cut the belly.

Okay, you don't get it.

Right now it looks like the diameter drops off right after the spike. Braid this core over some tapered strands of leather. In simpler terms, put some stuff in that thing to make it bigger, especially off the handle.

It looks like you just started braiding right off the spike without putting anything in the middle of your braid after the spike. You need some strips of leather in there to build up the diameter so you have a smooth transition off the end of the spike.

You should also keep in mind that any taper you put in this core/belly will directly effect the taper of all the other layers that go over the top of it. Imagine that this is your finished whip, only in miniature.

-Adam

OH, I see what you're talking about. I noticed that as well and didn't like it much. That's why I said I was probably going to undo and redo it a few times before continuing. The temptation to just say, "Skroo it!" is strong, but I'm patient.

Another Tandy story. I broke down and got an Aussie Strander. The website said they were $14.99 until the 30th of November. I mentioned it to the guy working there and he calle dthe boss over. She looked on an EMAIL and said, "There's no information on that being on sale."
I said, "It's on the website. Fourteen ninety-nine." She told me that it must be wrong.

The guy at the counter sold it to me for $15.00 and threw in an extra set of blades. He said that if his boss wasn't there, there'd be no problem.

No more Tandy for me.

Well, again I got impatient and cut the stuff for the belly. I was trying to get it done during the last hour of shift (Before the next crew came in and saw how "Busy" i was last night -he-he!). I braided it over the core and the guys seemed to stop with all the, "S&M" jokes and were pretty amazed at what I was able to do thusfar.



Again, I'm not using any braiding soap or anything that would make it difficult to take apart if I had to start over. It's now about six feet long.
You folks are also getting a small pictorial on how crappy parts of my house look. I have an excuse, though.
I have 2 Sons....

One more thing. Where would y'all suggest I go to find some kangaroo hides? Considering that I'm just using this cheap @#$% for this test whip (It doesn't even have a smooth side to it: rough all over), I should consider another source. Tandy doesn't carry it. Also, what's the general preference around here as to the material for the cracker? Horsehair? Silk?

BTW, I LOVE THE AUSSIE STRANDER!!!

try
http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/sides.htm
and never listen to the guys at tandy. Unless they
are whipmakers they dont know what they are talking
about. I had a very bad experience with that.
Adam

MMMmmm! I like. Bookmarked, and thanks.

Randall, I don’t know of any US retail leather supplier that has Kangaroo hides as part of there regular stock. You might be able to go directly though one of the Australian tanneries. Member Janine Fraser posted a great tip few months back that might be worth checking into viewtopic.php?t=13526

Unfortunately do to a really rough drought the high-grade kangaroo hides can be scarce at times. When you do find them they are usually not cheep. I know various whip makers like Mike Murphy and David Morgan sell hides. If I only needed one or two, I’d probably just get the hides from them. Thats just my 2 cents, Hopefully some of the other folks with more experience buying roo hides can offer other options.

BTW I make cracker/poppers out everything from bailing twine to horse hair, but out of all of it I still favor the simple nylon thread crackers/poppers.

Dan

Well, the thing turned out a lot bigger than I thought it would:

All's left is the turk's head knots. The Bic lighter is by the handle for a size reference.
This beast is ten feet, nine inches long -not including the fall, cracker or wristloop, and weighs in at about five pounds.

I can't get it to pop, though.

Whaddya think? Too much whip?

((runs for cover))

Randall,

Not getting it to pop just may be your technique.

As I was told a few times, there's nothing wrong with taking it apart and re-doing things you don't like. For example, the 5 lbs is a bit much for a whip that you intend to use for periods of time. Figure out if there is anything that you want to change, take it apart, and fix it. If you're completely satisfied with it, then screw what anyone else says!

Did you take notes?

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

I did take many notes and wrote down a pretty big list as in, "What NOT to do next time." I think that my biggest problem with making this whip is the material I used. Both sides were rough -there was no shiny exterior. And it was so thick! The handle is about the thickness of a flashlight. Glad I didn't use bolsters.

The good news is that I got the other two books I ordered. The Edwards book seems to be the most descriptive and illustrated.

I know I messed up a few of the plaits when I dropped from ten to eight. The cracker is horsehair. The real good pop I got out of it was a sidearm, but it busted the cracker off the tip. The folks at work thought an electrical panel blew up when I did it, too.

The next one will be done with a lot more patience and attention to detail. I didn't even bevel the strands on this one. I was so anxious to get it done before my shift ended so I could laugh at the smart guy at work when he tried it out and whacked himself in the butt. That didn't happen; he was WAY to intimidated by it's length and weight to try anything more than hold it in his hand and say, "It's fracking HUGE!". This is the fella who took the belly and asked, "It this IT?!" and started swinging it in a semi-underhand crack two days ago (A-la River Phoenix in the lion car). Thankfully, he didn't damage it beyond repair.

I'll have to wait until next payday to get some more material for my next one. This one was expected to be 10 plait 10 feet. The next will be a 12 plait 10 foot bullwhip. I really liked how that nail worked out and will use the same one the next time. I won't use kangaroo yet, though.

Thanks for your input. Everyone's been so helpful.

Congrats Randall on your first attempt! But it makes ya wanna do another one doesn't it? I'll have to admit, you had me crackin' up w/ some of the things you wrote, lol. And I wonder if you made the most posts in a single month. I've never seen so many by one person, lol. Anyway, congrats & good luck on the next!

Steve

Thanks, Steve.
I am quite anxious to get started on the next one -and do it correctly. My Wife LOVES this first one and wants me to mount it on the wall. A really rough estimate on the amount of time it took to make this would be somewhere in the area of 10-15 hours over the course of four days. It's really not even done yet because the last turk's knots aren't attached.
Now that I'm better armed with the books, I'll do better. Plaiting soap, beveling, the works.

I'm on political message boards a lot and have a slight addiction to these forums. I promise to try and keep politics off this board. I know how sensitive some folks get.

Deleting double post

I'm finally finished! Here's a pic with a tape measure to show the actual size of the handle:

And here's the whole thing:

Nice work Randall!
That whip is realy BIG.
Good work.
Best regards
Darth

Still, the only pop I can get out of this monster is from the sidearm crack. I'm narrowing the root causes to 2 things: The horsehair cracker is too stiff, and I'm WAY out of practice (it's been only about 20 years!).

I'm going back to work graveyard again tomorrow night, and will be up on the rooftops with several fresh nylon crackers to test out. I'll let y'all know how it goes. If all goes well, next payday will be when I get another piece of hide to make a 12-plait 10-foot bullwhip the RIGHT way -using my, "What NOT to do," notes. I also rigged a sharpening system for the blades on my Aussie Strander. Seemed like something to do considering I already have the Lansky diamond sharpening system.

I'll get back here in around thirty hours. Hopefully, my ears will be ringing from the explosive cracks from, "The Beast."

Dear Randall,

If you are planning to make any number of whips, let me suggest something to you. Using a strander is a good crutch in which to begin, but if you are planning on becoming proficient at whipmaker, you should throw the strander away, and begin to learn to cut with your hands by feel.

I used a homemade strander for sometime, until I was on a remote jobsite in the wilds of northern Idaho. I broke it, and was only left the with blade. I decided that if I wanted to finish cutting out this whip, I was going to have to do it by hand. Guess what? The strands that I cut looked just as bad as with the strander! I was at the point with using the strander that I was comfortable, but cutting freehand was not something that I was used to at all. I knew I'd get better at it, and have done so. I haven't gone back to the strander, except for about three times in 6 years, even when cutting lace for knot work.

Why not use a strander? I'll tell you why; you can't account for the stretchy parts of a hide, and cut a wider strand with a strander. Cutting freehand allows you to do this. When you use a strander, the strands are very uniform. But when you stretch them, you quickly figure out that they aren't uniform anymore, especially with kangaroo and the tension it allows one to maintain while plaiting. I know of folks that use these, and it's easy to spot in the plaiting when strands aren't uniform in width (ergo, a stretchy hide).

Just my opinion, and if you are comfortable, don't listen to me! But, as a fledgling whipmaker that you are, and I'm sure you'll make more (it's somewhat addictive). Do yourself the favor and make the leap. Don't get me wrong, because at first, it's uncomfortlabe and difficult, but it will become easier and faster than using a strander.

Nice job for a first attempt. Just keep at it, and always try to be patient enough to learn from your mistakes (I wasn't always!), making the next one better.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

By the way, as "beastly" as you describe your whip, it still looks like it should pop. Your muscle memory will come back to you, and you'll be given 'er he11 in no time! You might also try a standard type of popper, one with a twist braid in it, similar to the way most roo whips come. That may very well fix the problem.

Randall, nice job! There’s always room for improvement but for your first whip, id say it looks good. I’ve enjoyed your posts and can’t wait to see your next whip.

I think your cracker/popper is probably the reason you’re having such a difficult time with it. I agree with Paul, switch to a smaller twisted style popper. You should have much better luck cracking that beastie.

Dan

Well, you folks were right about the cracker. The nylon is making my sidearm about as loud as my Beretta 9mm.

I'm goin' back up to the roof to keep working it. BBL!

Well, I got the underhand, sidearm and overhand cracks down, although the overhand needs a lot more work -about every five cracked.

Practice.

Well, I re-learned all the cracks I knew as a youth and a few more. I can make multiple consistent booms from side/overhead/side combos. You were so right, Paul. My muscle memory did come back -with a vengence. I also learned that foot placement when launching into a throw does wonders for power.

I'm now working on my next one. It'll be 12-plait, 10-foot bullwhip. I'm on vacation for the next week and will have lots of time.

I'm ordering some hides from brettunsvillage.com, and have put in a good word for all you folks helping me out.

@#$%! I forgot something.

I've seen and read lots of different formulas and recipes for plaiting soap. Anyone want to post their opinions on their best ways for this?

Here's what I learned. It'll make your kitchen stink.

1 lb lard
1 cup water
1 bar unscented soap (I use Ivory because it's 99 44/100 pure!)

Melt lard in water. Grate soap with a cheese grater. Slowly add this to the mixture while stirring. Adding soap greatly increases the probability of boil over. Keep stirring, and reduce heat just to below boiling. Once all the soap is added, cook for a few more minutes to try to get the big pieces dissolved.

Take off heat, pour into your container, like a tupperware or coffee can, and leave it to set up for a day or so.

Season to taste and enjoy! Apply liberally to your strands when plaiting, but don't ever use it on knots, as it will cause them to slip. Knots are always done dry.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Paul_Stenhouse wrote:Season to taste and enjoy!

LOL!!
Glad I guessed right on the soap part. I just picked up three bars about 2 hours ago.
I'll try this out tonight. Thanks, Paul.

Randall,

No problem. Just don't forget to open a window or you might not get any Christmas presents this year!

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Use a double boiler set-up. I use a large pot with a couple inches of water and put in a 3 lb coffee can into the pot. Bring the outside water to a boil and you reduce the boil over point of the water in the coffee can. It will simmer more than boil.

Plus the clean up is a lot easier. I use the same coffee can for storage.

Another ingredient you can add to the mix is pure beeswax. I grate up a piece about the size of a golf ball into the mix.

Jerry R

This site rocks!

Thanks, Jerry.