Club Obi Wan

I emailed a request, to Flightsuits, 3 days ago for some clarification on
their jacket sizing. So far, no reply. This is customer service?

It's been dicey for a while. Regards! Michaelson

Meaning : Have they been having problems, with personnel, production,
or what? I have been interested in ordering a jacket but maybe this is not the time.

I've been reading and hearing it's the proverbial 'feast or famine'. Some folks have had customer service literally bend over backwards to give information and help. Others have been given the cold shoulder, and it has been like pulling teeth to get information.
I haven't dealt with them in some time myself, so I'll have to leave the current situation discussion to those who HAVE recent information.

Regards! Michaelson

Most distressing. I have the money, I have the urge. Just want to make sure of what I am ordering. But if I can't have my questions answered, I will have to spend my money elsewhere. It wasn't a terribly difficult question.

Sometimes a phone call is the best way to talk to these folks. I have a feeling the folks who handle the electronic work, and those at the phones are two completely different groups. Regards ! Michaelson

Listen to Michaelson advise. Calling vs. email is always better in my opinion.

Not too long ago I had done some business with Gibson-Barnes. I have a few Westeds,' as well as Expedition jackets from Gibson-Barnes.

And, let me say that I have "always" had EXCELLENT customer servive from the folks over at Gibson-Barnes....I realize that a few people had some unfortunate episodes. Perhaps, I just got lucky but every single time that I had called their 800 number, or written to them via Email, everything went through smoothly.

One of the best salespeople that I had the opportunity to talk to is a fella by the name of Jeremy Walters, Ext. 205. He takes pride in what he does, and he'll take care of everything for you. He has "great" customer service skills, and you won't be disappointed. You can reach Jeremy at: jeremy@gibson-barnes.com. He'll fix you up...

As for choosing an Expedition jacket, you won't be disappointed in one neither. I have a Dark-Brown Goatskin Expedition jacket from Gibson-Barnes and it is the best leather jacket I have ever, or will ever own, hands down. I'm one of those picky leather jacket owners, and when my Dark-Brown Goatskin Indy jacket arrived I was extremely impressed that all of the leather grain matched perfectly throughout the entire jacket. It is absolutely beautiful, well-made, screen-accurate, and all around PERFECT!

Best wishes on your decision, but I think that if you give them another shot, you'll be well pleased with their product indeed!

Kind Regards,
Captain D (Aaron)

Thanks Captain D. for your reply. BTW the very jacket you own is what I would like to get. All I really want to know is: Did you order your normal size, as in a 44R or whatever, and how did you find the fit. Some people in these forums have indicated that they go down a size when ordering. Flightsuits did respond to an inquiry I had made several weeks ago, regarding one of their clearance jackets and gave me the measurements I was looking for, for that particular jacket. That jacket would not have fit me and they simply referred me to their sizing chart for ordering other jackets.

My query is simply this: Their sizing chart says they add extra fabric so the jacket will fit correctly.
How much fabric? What is the actual sleeve length on a 44R jacket and what is the circumference, measured from side seam to side seam, under the arms. The clearance jacket had a 53" circumference but short torso. Even the 53" is more than I want. Jackets I currently own,
in a large size, measure 51" and that is plently large. I would like the Expo to fit a little closer, as I do not plan to layer clothing under it. I would order a 42, but am afraid the sleeves may be too short.

If I might ask, what is the size of your Expo? Did you order the same size as your Westeds, and what does your jacket measure,
under the arms, side to side and the sleeve length from shoulder seam to cuff? Any help would be appreciated. I may try to contact Jeremy and see if he can assist me. Thanks

My experiences with G& B customer service have been exceptional! (As they were with Wested, where I have actually visited in the past). G&B folks have been accommodating to the point of remarkable. Maybe I was lucky...but this has been my experience. Cheers--Lao Feng

Yes, it's true, there is a recent track record of discrepancies between what is expected and what was once very consistent in good customer service out of FS....but that was prior to a lot of "turnover" there related to the exchange of control over the company.

That said, I, too have always had a good experience when I've called and actually talked to someone. I don't have much patience for waiting around for an email from someone, so as a general rule, I always call. I don't think you'll be disappointed if you handle it that way, as Michaelson suggests.

And I don't think you'll be disppointed with the Expedition jacket either. I have one and, though I've thought about selling it in the past, I now am so happy with it I wouldn't dream of it unless it was a matter of life/death.

Hope that helps some.
Indydawg

Sizing? I wear a 44R and I bought a 44R. Fits perfectly. I have no idea what is meant by extra fabric. It doesn't translate to an extra size, at least in my case.

Maybe I'm making more out of this than needs to be. When I researched past threads, I found numerous posts that indicated a 44 in a Wested translated into a 42 in a FS, for that wearer, as an example, and even vice versa in a few cases. I took all of this with a grain of salt but I wondered if the FS ran 'true to size" or were designed a little on the large size to allow layering. The threads I found created just enough doubt that I wanted to try and get my order right the first time by getting some actual dimensions of some existing jackets. The 53" quoted as the size of the jacket on the clearance rack made me wonder if that was a standard for a 44 or if that was part of the made to measure for that particular jacket. It apparently didn't fit right or it wouldn't have ended up on the clearance page. Oh well, I was just wondering.
Sergei, you say you take a 44R and ordered a 44R, and it fits perfectly.
Would you mind measuring the circumference as well as the sleeve length.
I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks

Clearance rack: you have to remember that jackets appearing there may have been modified off the standard pattern. So the jackets on clearance are most likely returned jackets (within the 6 month policy) that were modified per the spec of the buyer. So, a 44 jacket on the clearance rack with the circumference of 53" may not be the standard 44 off the rack jacket.

I would recommend talking to Jeremy on these specifics. But back to topic. When Dave Marshall was in the picture, when asked about sizing: "order what your normally wear".

Speaking of Dave Marshall, anyone know what he's up to these days? Any chance of he and his wife attending the QM gathering?

Indyjim wrote:Maybe I'm making more out of this than needs to be...

...hmm, well IMHO maybe you are.

Indyjim wrote:I emailed a request, to Flightsuits, 3 days ago for some clarification on
their jacket sizing. So far, no reply. This is customer service?

First, I’m not sure why you are sending emails when it would be much simpler to speak with someone like Jeremy about your concerns directly just as Michaelson, Sergei, and Captain D have suggested. It’s not like you are calling long distance to some far away country, ...er, like say England. Also, I’ve found (through my own experiences) that most sizing information posted by others, or even given out through a vendor no matter how knowledgeable or well intentional that information may be is ‘no’ substitute to actually trying the jacket on yourself and feeling comfortable in having time to mull over your choice in the privacy of your own home before finally committing to the purchase. This is just one of several reasons I’ve purchased a number of jackets, including two Expeditions from G&B, and that one major reason is their ‘guarantee and return policy’ which is still extremely generous and relatively painless compared to..., well, the other major vendor, at least I think it is.

If, as you say, you “have the money,” and the vendor is by all accounts reputable, and you have gone through the process of gathering all the information you can reasonably expect to acquire on sizing, color, or type of hide (which you already seem to have done), simply place an order over the phone with a competent representative like the one mentioned here by several others. In the past, representatives I’ve had have actually encouraged ‘bracketing’ in on your size, meaning trying the jacket you ‘think’ you need, and the size up or down that you think you ‘may’ require (...hey, just like at a regular neighborhood clothier) If, after ‘bracketing’ your size you still have a problem with sizing, discuss it at that time with the person you purchased it from. Sometimes accommodations can still be made if they are not too drastic, but only ‘after’ you have tried the standard off-the-rack sizes.

Indiana Jess wrote:Speaking of Dave Marshall, anyone know what he's up to these days? Any chance of he and his wife attending the QM gathering?

QM? Didn’t that go down with all hands years and years ago in Lake Michigan after hitting some iceberg. No... I think that was the Edmund Fitzgerald, and it went down in the Atlantic ocean after being struck by a German torpedo during WWI. No, on second thought I think that was the Titanic ..but then what was the Lusitania doing on Lake Michigan if it was a passenger liner???:-k Well, I hope Dave, or his wife, wasn’t on any of those ships!

Indyjim, it's been my experience that FS runs closer to size than Wested. Westeds run a bit small, so if you order a 44R from FS, you'll get a 44R. They are machine made and consistently sized, Each Wested is made by a different person, so IMO they come out a little inconsistent in their sizing. Don't get me wrong, I love Wested, you just have to watch your p's and q's when ordering from them. FS is generally rock solid. I have two of 'em and they are exactly the same, where as my Wested came out on the smaller side.

hope this helps,



have a nice day.

Texas-Raider nailed it when he said that Wested is hand-made, therefore, sizes may vary slightly. Whereas, the Expedition is machine-made and each jacket will be cut exactly the same as the next in the same size.

For example, I had a Wested Goat in the same size as my Expedition. The Wested was actually a "tad" larger that the Expedition. And, I've handled another one in the same size that felt slightly smaller. It's not much, but it was just a tad...

I see that you live in PA. I also live in PA, so if you happen to live in southern PA (say, York, Lancaster, or Adams Counties) perhaps we could meet up and you are more than welcome to try on two Expedition jackets that I have...

Kind Regards,
Captain D

When FS used to produce the 'Made to order' versions, they, too, were each hand made to personal spec, as is Wested's practice. I think they really made a bad decision to move away from that practice and go strictly with standard sizing.

I agree with what Sergei stated in terms of just ordering the size you always wear. The sizing it true...BUT, what about folks like me who have longer arms than the standard? I tried on a true size 42R that Dave Marshall brought to the 2nd QM summit, and the sleeves were well over 2+ inches to short! I'd have had to have at least a 44R to make the sleeves work, but then the body would have been bigger than my standard sizing.

So, it's guess work in a way, but at least it's closer than the Wings offering that comes in s-m-l-xl.

Regards! Michaelson

What Michaelson stated above is why I was just trying to get a handle on what the actual dimensions are, before I placed an order. That way, I don't have to wait to try it on and send it back if its not really going to fit or fit the way I want. Sure, trying it on is the best way to go, but a little knowledge beforehand can save some shipping costs and aggravation after.

Why do I email? Because my schedule and the time diiference between east coast and west coast doesn't always permit me to be on the phone or be
available for a return call.

Captain D, thanks for the offer, but I'm in the western part.

Best wishes on the outcome with everything IndyJim!

I think that you approached this task the smartest way by asking questions here at COW and contacting Gibson-Barnes with any concerns that you may have. You are right, that by keep sending jackets back n' forth through the mail system, until you get the best fitting jacket, takes not only a lot of time but also a lot of money to an already expensive jacket to begin with. The more info you have on hand when you make the order, the better the chances that all goes well the first time round.'

Take care and please keep us updated on how things go!
Kind Regards,
Captain D