Club Obi Wan

Well I picked up my Wested Indy jacket last week I got a Goatskin Raiders & it's a truely beautiful jacket. So well made

However...

I do have one small issue & I'm now so confused about what to do, I really need the imput of the members here


Basically the seam across the back...well when I put my arms forward in any way I can feel the seam putting pressure right across my back. Now whilst it is not painful, it is anoying & quite honestly, worrying about it is ruining my enjoyment of what is an otherwise perfect jacket in every way.

Now I'm 5 foot 8 inches short & I'll be the first to admit I'm carrying about 2 stone in weight more than I should Mostly on my torso & tum. That said, I tried on a 40 inch chest jacket & Peter himself (great guy - I'll get to that in a moment though) measured me for arm & jacket length which obviously fit perfectly Unfortunately I didn't really test with the size 40 I had on the amount of fit I had round the body/mobility of my arms.
I asked Peter for the chest to be a 41 to give me a little more room & my jacket does have plenty of chest room, even with the action pleats pulled in fully. I also have double 'Jagger Lips' under arm gussets. It's just when I put my arms forward, even for something simple like holding a magazine, that I can feel the seam across my back & wonder if I've got enough room there

So the questions are...

Is this normal? Has anyone else had this with their jackets? Am I worrying about nothing?

Do I need a bigger jacket? (I did speak to Gerry/Jerry at Wested who said that going up a size would only give me an extra 1/2 inch on the seam total. Anything bigger for my size would have the actions pleats open all the time & looking as he put it "... sticking out like wing nuts"! )

The seam on my jacket meets with the seams running up the back of the arms, which is the current standard on Wested Indy jackets; but studying Raiders, the original jacket on screen has a seam about 1.5 inches higher that the arm seams from my estimation.

So would raising the seam work better?

Does anyone have an older Wested jacket with a higher back seam, or had one made that way? (didn't Got Maul have his seam raised?)

Wested seemed to think it would not help & said that they had dropped the seam down to again stop the action pleats staying open.


So please, anyone who can speak with experience, knowledge or authority on this subject, chip in (Michaelson ???). I'm pretty desperate to get this sort



(Let me just making this clear, I have absolutely no critisim of Wested. They have been nothing but helpful. This issue is either a problem of my own mind worrying about nothing, or I need to get a truely fitted jacket made to accommodate my particular back (no I'm not from Notre Dame!))

BTW, as I was saying, Peter, what a great guy We had a chat about the UK Summit & a few other things. I got the impression from him, he really does enjoy meeting up with all the gearheads & has a genuine affection for us mad people Very, very cool

Not an expert, but it does sound like the back of your jacket is a bit on the narrow side... I haven't experienced that sensation myself.

I can feelmine a bit...its up to you, but I don't think there isnt much you can do with the jacket that will get rid of the problem. It doesn't really bother me. Did you get the cotton lining or the satin? That may have a difference in feel too.

Hmmm. This is really your call. I have noticed a little pressure from time to time, but nothing annoying.

Is the yoke on modern Wested's lower so that the action pleats stay closed?

It doesnt sound like it is a problem as such unless it actually irritates you - sounds more like a sign of a very fitted jacket. However as most people will prob advise - speak to Peter. You are fortunate enough to even be able to call in some time if it is that much of an issue.

Ken

Skippy,

I have a Raiders lambskin and I felt that exact same thing when I first got my jacket. The day I got the jacket, I ran to the grocery store to pick up a couple of things, and when I reached forward to push the grocery cart and felt that pulling across my back, I thought, "oh no, my jacket doesn't fit". I didn't think that I would ever be able to live with that.

My jacket is a real close fit. It is great with an Indy shirt, but if I wear a baggy sweatshirt or something, it causes the shirt to bulge in the front. My lamb is perfect for IndyGear but if I were to wear other types of shirts I would probably need to get a larger jacket, maybe a goat, someday.

Now, to get back to the problem that you experienced. The way my jacket fits, I have no problems with my action pleats staying open. Like I said, it pulled terribly across the back when I first got it. Now, it seems to have molded itself to my shape and I don't experience this sensation anymore. I sometimes hold my arms out in front of me just to see if it feels like it is pulling and I can't feel it. I really don't think it is mind over matter or that I have gotten used to it. I think it has broken in to fit me.

Having said all of that, lamb is said to be the softest of all the leathers. You have a goat. I don't know if the same thing would happen with the goat, but my feeling is that it would. Peter is the best judge of how a Raiders jacket should fit. Trust him.

The Wested I currently have is a bit tighter across the back than the previous three I've owned. And the sleeves are more narrow, too but as this one has gussetts, I understand that's normal.
I've always thought the yoke sits too low in terms of both screen accuracy and comfort. The pleats on Ford's jacket were higher, period. If they do not sit on the shoulder then they do not open up as the shoulder rotates forward to allow the extra room they are designed to allow. The bottom edge of the yoke on Wested's and most Indy jackets for that matter seem to sit level to the armpit. This totally undermines the purpose of the pleats and it's not accurate, either. Also, if they were higher up on the shoulder, they would follow the curve of the shoulder for a couple inches and having them "bent" at the top like that would keep them closed better.
I'm to the point where I'm really considering taking a pattern from my Wested, altering it and just making my own jacket.

I've experienced the same exact thing especially when first putting on my FS goatskin jacket (or going through my daily Schwarzenegger flexing routine in front of the mirror ) when I notice it the most while I do not when wearing my FS lambskin (contrary to Bufflehead's experience with his "real close fit" Wested lambskin raiders) where the leather, and thus the seams are more supple. I've also experienced it under the arms with my goatskin on occasion. And I can assure you that as the leather around those seams itself eventually relaxes after months of heavy wear (becoming desirably more supple, more so than the seams themselves will ever be) you MAY notice it even more with the seams in essence being the 'wire' framework which holds the jacket together ...which should be a reassuring feeling as long as you say it's a feeling of "pressure" and not a feeling of cutting into your back. It seems quite normal to me considering this type of hide. IMHO, it is nothing to be concerned about especially considering you were fortunate to have Peter fit your jacket himself and getting the other corroborative information you did from others at Wested. After awhile you will get used to the annoyance you describe. I also agree that going any larger will not look good in regards to the action pleats on a stiffer goatskin, nor will any attempts to raise of lower the seam running along the back lessen the "annoyance" you describe without risking the 'look' of the jacket unless you're willing to live with raising the back seam an extra 1.5 inches higher which may or may not help.

If you get the opportunity to go back and compare your Wested goatskin with one of their similarly sized off the rack larger goatskins, and then, compare the goatskin to a lambskin (where you'll likely not notice any seams at all) you may well see what I'm talking about. But in the end it's for you to decide whether your jacket looks good on you and fits or whether you would prefer trying out the changes you suggest in your post.

Thanks for the imput so far people

Interestingly I had a chance to try on some leather jackets today with different yoke seam heights.

My jacket has the yoke seam at 6" from the collar seam. Now I tried on a jacket with the seam at about 4.5" (which is what I think the original Raiders seam was positioned at) & it was fine ...although it was a soft suede type leather, so that might of made a difference

Then I tried another jacket with a seam at 6" like mine, so the seam was across my shoulders, same as my jacket. Result......well when I put my arms forward the stitching across my back start creeking like it was going to split!

Now...

Shawnkara wrote:I've always thought the yoke sits too low in terms of both screen accuracy and comfort. The pleats on Ford's jacket were higher, period.

Yep, I'd definately agree with that.

Shawnkara wrote:If they do not sit on the shoulder then they do not open up as the shoulder rotates forward to allow the extra room they are designed to allow. The bottom edge of the yoke on Wested's and most Indy jackets for that matter seem to sit level to the armpit. This totally undermines the purpose of the pleats and it's not accurate, either.

I hear that too.

Shawnkara wrote:Also, if they were higher up on the shoulder, they would follow the curve of the shoulder for a couple inches and having them "bent" at the top like that would keep them closed better.

YES! I 100% agree on that too! Watching Raiders on DVD the other night, I spent ages freeze-framing & studying that seam & the action pleats & I totally believe your right on what you say.


So if anyone has an old or engineered Wested jacket with a high joke seam I'd be VERY interested to hear your observations, but everyone thanks for the response so far & please keep the opinion & observations coming. I plan to head back to Wested very soon & brainstorm with the crafts-people there & see what we can come up with

Cheers.

Skippy,
It's nice to see someone else on my train of thought, even if the tracks are a bit rusty Since you're fortunate enough to have direct access to Wested's shop perhaps you could bring this up with Peter? Maybe we could get this change incorporated into the design? Fan input has been used in the past, so maybe we could get lucky.

I too have spent a lot of time thinking about this topic, as well, with my Indy jackets...

My grandfather, dad, and myself tend to have broad shoulders and find that the Indy style jacket, whether it be Wested, Flightsuits, or USWings, "may" just be tight fitted in the arm-pit and shoulder areas regardless of jacket producer....I may be wrong though.

It seems that whichever jacket I wear, when I extend my arms straight out (like Frankenstein ) or "hug myself," I too feel the tight pulling across my back and arm-pits even if I order my correct jacket size. When I wanted to order a Flightsuits Goatskin Indy jacket before last Christmas, I ordered my correct jacket size (thinking that the Flightsuits runs a tad larger than the Wested fitting). But when it arrived, I felt that it was quite the opposite. To me, personally, it felt as if the Flightsuits was a tad "smaller" in fitting than the Wested that I owned (even in the exact same size )....

To make a long story short, I decided to go up a size in the Flightsuits just for the added room in my shoulder and arm-pit areas. What I did was, I put an extra layer or two on just to see how my regular fitting would feel when I wore layers underneath during winter-time. It was then that I decided that I needed to gp up a size....But even though I love my Flightsuits, I can't "custom order" an Indy jacket like you can with the Wested fitting. The best that I could do with Flightsuits was to go up a size. My flightsuits doesn't fit bad; it still looks good and fits well. For your situation, I'm sure Peter, at Wested, could work something out to allow for some extra room for your back if need be.

If I remember correctly, I think that there were a few members here who were discussing the possibility of enlarging the arm-hole into the Indy jacket, with Peter at Wested, to permit extra space for their arms. I'm not sure of whatever came about of those discussions, but I would imagine that Peter could do something like that as a possible option....

Best of luck with your jacket & let us know how things go!
Kind Regards,
Captain D

Captain D --

- I had the same situation as you with FS Expo.

- While technically I am a size 40 (actual chest closer to 41), the FS size 40 was too tight in arm pits, shoulders, across back, and arm legnth was too short.

- I too went up a size. (42R) I am great up top now (and can layer) and arm length is perfect ...but had to compromise a bit in the waist being a tad too big.

- Of course, at my age (I believe Michaelson and I are about the same age) a little room at the waist may not be a bad idea for future changes in moi.

- Overall, I am reall happy with my FS goat.

Same here!

My back, my shoulders, sleeve-length, and arm-pit areas feel GREAT and are quite comfortable even though I had to go up a size. However, I do tend to have a "little more" room in the "body" of the jacket.....which can be a good thing for extra layers and any added weight if need be in the future . Also, congrats on your Flightuits Goat, as well, my friend!

Kindest Regards,
Captain D

Roger that Captain D.

I do have a little extra room in the body of the jacket as well. But it is unavoidable. Here is why I need ia 3 season goat jacket...Here's a typical Fall, Spring, Summer trip for my Indy jacket (or my Cowhide A-2 in dead of winter)...

1. Fly to Beijing for 14 hours in the air over the polar air cap at 40K feet altitude (very cold. shirt, sweatshirt and jacket

2. Land in Beijing where it is about anywhere from 45 to 70 degrees (just shirt and jacket)

3. Fly to Shanghai or Guangzhou.....70 to 85 degrees (T-shirt only and jacket)

4. How about off to Hong Kong where the temp may be 85 degrees but "Killer Air Conditionng" can freeze you to death in any office building or hotel (shirt and jacket)

5. Fly back to States via Japan (chilly) and once again freezing at high altitude)

Y'all get the picture

Anyway... I wish I was just malling it or on the block back here where a real fitted look would be great...but on the road it's three seasons and I need the extra room to layer.


Cheers-- Lao Feng (aka Colonel Feng)

Lao Feng wrote:
- Of course, at my age (I believe Michaelson and I are about the same age) a little room at the waist may not be a bad idea for future changes in moi.

Turning 50 thursday. Yep, waist room is VERY welcome at this age. (grins) Regards! Michaelson

Whoa, no wonder you need a 3-season jacket ....The Flightsuits Goat should hold up pretty well during your travels!
High Regards,
Captain D

p.s- Happy pre-Birthday there Michaelson!

Thank's, Capt. Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote: Turning 50 thursday. Yep, waist room is VERY welcome at this age. (grins) Regards! Michaelson

Happy Birthday, Sir! Mine is tomorrow! How scary is that? I am honored to share a B-day week with you, my friend.

Same to you, HJ, and likewise!!! High regards! Michaelson

Happy Birthday Michaelson! (I'm just a year ahead of you...blazin' that dusty trail....yee-hah)

Ah, THAT'S who's dust I've been eating all these years! (grins) Thanks, my friend! High regards! Michaelson

Geez, you guys aren't even old enough to go on tour with the Rolling Stones yet. I think you have to be in at least your sixties or more to do that. Instead of book learnin' you guys should've picked up a guitar at an early age and learned to look incredibly ugly so you to could earn in excess of $300 million per tour playing some 100 dates.

Happy B-day you guys, you've got a long way to go yet.