Club Obi Wan

So as not to steal another thread I am wondering if any of you own this jacket, it sure looks interesting...If I get an indy jacket it would be the wested or the FS, but in the meantime this raiders looks very nice, different. I was also reading the warrantee of Flighsuit and it seems just great, 6 months to return an item...but as we all know, within a few days we generally know if something is a keeper...so anyway, this raiders jacket:

http://www.flightsuits.com/leather_raider.html

I would love to know how it looks on, the cut, fit...I am sure it will have an absence of extra seams..also about the leather choices, looks like goat or cow, and I think the cow may be distressed...I have no idea about how these drape, both wear well I am sure, so any info would be greatly appreciated...I think I got OD'd on the indy jacket last week.

Thanks

Guitone,

Just to be clear...don't confuse that jacket with the Flightsuits Expedition. The Expedition line is cut after the Indy pattern.

http://www.flightsuits.com/leather_expedition.html

The two jackets are much different sleeves, pockets collar, etc.




I personally have an Expedition in goat and it is a good jacket. Although, the goat you probably won't be able to distress. I think people have tired and there hasn't been much success.

Cheers,
Pyro.

That looks like a lovely jacket!

I've really been bitten by the A2 bug of late! I'd like to own a jacket like that.

Al

I know it is different, part of it's appeal to me I think. I can see it great with chino's and cords......The Expedition is also great, this is just different from what I usually see as an indy jacket or a regular flght due to the pockets.

I know it is different, part of it's appeal to me I think. I can see it great with chino's and cords......The Expedition is also great, this is just different from what I usually see as an indy jacket or a regular flght due to the pockets.

Yup, I know what you mean.

Kind of has that Tom Seleck Indy look too!

If you do go for this jacket, please post some pics!

Regards

Al

I tried this jacket awhile back before deciding to return it. The jacket just did not look good on ME. I think it had something to do with the shorter, rounded-off collar; but mostly I think it had even more to do with the design of the pockets. As typical with jackets of this type, the side entry pockets are practically useless, probably more so than even the Indy jackets; and because the bottom of the pockets are rounded-off on one side, the depth of the pockets just doesn’t have much usefulness either.

As to the overall fit, the arms were tighter fitting than the body of the jacket even on a regular. I’m not a fan of tapered, or narrow sleeves, at least to the extent of the jacket I GOT since the body of the jacket seemed too bulky from the chest down in comparison when you actually WEAR it. This was possibly because of the amount of material needed for the design of the layered pockets themselves - I dunno. The sleeves, shoulders, and body of the jacket just SEEMED proportionally off to me on MY frame. Personally I’d rather go with another A-1 jacket, but again, this is just my opinion.

You are probably right, the jacket does go nice with faded jeans though if you’re just considering the overall ‘look’ of the jacket and the hide itself. You may like the fit, and functionality of the jacket on YOU more than I liked it on me, especially if you have larger hands. The only way to really know is to try it and see for yourself.

As to the hide(s) themselves you will find a review and pix here, although on an Expedition:

viewtopic.php?t=4875

You can no longer get G&B to make an Expedition like the one Indiana Joe purchased in either of these cowhides anymore, but the description of the hides themselves are still valid for the ‘Raiders’ jacket.

Rixter,thanks....the pockets being useful is a must...so if these are not than I have to rethink both the expedition as well as the ANJ-3. If there are no epaulets it has more appeal since I know the pockets will be similar to the indy's, at least I would think.

Thanks again

You can see them being worn in several movies and TV shows. I think Kevin Costner wears one in Bull Durham, I know Richard Dean Anderson wears one on Mac Gyver. It is generally known as a G-2-that's how Avirex bills it. US Wings has one, too, but the pockets do not zip across the top, they have flaps like the G-1. The only real difference in the Wings G-2 and the G-1 is the fact the G-2 does not have the storm flap under the zipper nor does it have the fur collar. Oh, and none of these jackets have epaulets-the Wings, Avirex, or Flightsuits versions.

I owned one of these for a few weeks once-an Avirex version. It didn't look good on me either. I do know, however, that it is a popular jacket. One of my good friends in high school, who's dad was a retired Naval aviator, had one because the Georgia weather just doesn't suit a G-1 very often (while everywhere else in the US has 4 seasons, we have two-8 months of summer and 2 months of light winter-no, I don't get to wear my jackets that often).

Basically with this jacket, you're getting a "civilianized" version of the G-1-no fur collar, hand warmer pockets, zip top pockets. It has the gussets under the arms, the half belted action back, and storm flap under the zipper, plus the map pocket inside on the left.

Good jacket-just didn't suit my tastes. Might suit yours.

Only one way to find out.
Later!
Indydawg

I just got off of the phone with FS again and their customer service does seem to be pretty good, not all of the CS personal know as much as others, but certainly more knowledgeable than the folks on the phones at US Wings. I have read about new ownership at FS, can you tell me what that is all about, when it occurred, if there have been any perceived differences to the quality of the jackets?

Sure wish I could find a cow in my size on the sales rack......but maybe if I wait awhile I will get lucky.....

Thanks

Oh, and by the way-Kevin Costner apparently really likes this jacket because he also wore one in Field of Dreams.

I've personally had that same experience talking with folks in the CS department at Flightsuits. You'll get ahold of someone who really knows their stuff sometimes, and sometimes you get someone whose specialty is perhaps uniforms and not jackets. Quickly remedied by getting the name of the CS person you really like and just asking for that person any time you call.

As far as perceived differences in quality of jackets since change of ownership of the company-I can't personally speak to that as I've not had any personal dealings with them since the change of hands. There have been tales of CS being all over the grid with respects to the right hand knowing that the left hand was doing. It also appeared for awhile that the company was getting away from paying attention to the "little guy" customer and was going hard after corporate accounts, airline business, and government contracts, opting to pay more attention to "big business" and filling huge orders as opposed to Joe Blow. I don't know what the current status is, but I can imagine that there could possibly have been something of a hit, perhaps below radar, to the quality of the jacket that you get "off the rack", as they are strictly cookie cutter making jackets now, and are not currently, I believe, doing even made to measure jackets for individuals. This may NOT currently be the case, but the last I heard, people were getting mixed messages about this.

Now, if you can wear an off the rack size-you're in business and that won't matter at all anyway. I do know, from personal experience, every FS jacket I have ever seen is top notch on quality of skin and precision in stitching. If it isn't satisfactory, for whatever reason, you can always send it back for a refund-that's guaranteed for something like 90 days, I think.

That's about all I can say with any degree of confidence. _ and Michaelson could really answer your questions about this, but I'd contact them offline-they're both a bit chattier that way !

Later!
Indydawg

I pretty much agree with Indydawg.

The big change with G&B, besides letting go most all of the knowledgeable people who were once employed there for whatever reason, is basically twofold; firstly, they no longer make made-to-order jackets which means you can no longer have a particular style of jacket made in the hide of your choice. You must only select from those hides mentioned in their catalog (no Expeditions in Vintage Dark Brown Cowhide or Russet/Mahogany Horsehide, etc.) and secondly, you can not have any alterations done in the way of changing the size of the jacket to your personal measurements (for which some were glad to pay the extra money to have done). This also includes a discontinuance of having the choice of having ‘options’ added to a jacket like (2) inside pockets, zippered or not zippered, a different lining such as a thinsulate lining, etc. These limitations should not influence anyone from purchasing from G&B per say. It is not MY real grievance with them. That is their current policy - ... so alright, I guess there’s not much you can do about THAT.

The biggest problem (for me) is that they have not been willing to honor their verbal commitment (Guarantee) they made, and, which is STILL stated on their site that: We will exchange standard sizes for another standard size.  Or you can UPGRADE to a MADE-TO-MEASURE item. We will alter or remake your made-to-measure purchase free.

http://www.flightsuits.com/info_guarantee.html

I suppose my main complaint is that they refuse to make another jacket following the same pattern that I, nearly a year and a half ago, paid the extra $130 or so to follow my ALREADY made-to-measure pattern which they verbally committed to when I went ahead with the order, and again, STILL state in their guarantee: Made to measure - If nature gave you wide shoulders and a long waist (or vice versa), Flight Suits will make a uniform or jacket exactly to your measurements. We use a computer design system to adjust your pattern so it fits exactly right. Then we save the pattern on disk so you can order the same size again and again. Free alterations - You want your made-to-measure uniform and jacket to fit right. Flight Suits guarantees that your uniform and JACKET will fit the way you want them to. If they don't, we'll alter them free. And we'll get them right back to you.

These are just my personal gripes because of the ‘pattern’ I had made at an extra cost which in my opinion they could easily follow since they maintain as stated above that they still have that pattern, and because of their verbal and printed guarantee. After all, that was one of the factors that influenced me in paying to have one made.

http://www.flightsuits.com/info_facts.html

Echoing some of the points Indydawg mentioned on the positive side, let me add, for MOST people who DO fall within their off-the-rack sizing, they still offer a good choice of sizes and thus a better fit for the average consumer; better customer service; a better return policy; prompt delivery and return (they even picked up a different style jacket up at home for an exchange - at least they did so at the time, I don’t know about now however); and IMHO, have a good, and consistent quality of hides, ...some VERY nice hides indeed; and make an excellent representation of an Indy style jacket. So if you do not have special sizing issues, and can live without the wider selection of hides for your jacket, and have not already paid to have a pattern made, and don’t mind paying a bit more than what you can purchase a Wested for, I would say give them a try.

I would only add to this already lengthy post (sorry about that) is that YOU must try jackets you feel YOU like, and not be influenced too greatly by what other people like me say. Many things are learned by trial and error. What is posted here is by and large only one persons opinion. Don’t let that deter you from experiencing what’s out there yourself. I’ve personally tried many a jacket and am pleased to have a variety of jackets from all sorts of makers, both Indy jackets, and military type jackets.

Well said indeed.

It truly does all boil down to personal taste. Who says you even HAVE to own an Indy jacket to like the Indy movies?! I tried to give my brother a Wested a few years back-but he just didn't wear it. He's strictly an A-2 man-and truthfully, he didn't look all that good in the jacket. Go with what works for you-whatever that may be-and to heck with what others may think.

Later!
Indydawg

Well, this is what I think I am going to do...bring in an expeidition and a raiders and see what I like best. The raiders would be in dk brown vintage cowhide, the expedition I am not sure...I know the goat is supposed to be more durable, both look good (I got swatches) but does one actually wear/weather better than the other (I think I hear that lamb will but not sure)..I am not going to manually distress a jacket and take a chance of screwing it up. Also, at 5'7" I will stay with the regular instead of the short, it will give me a bit more length in the expedition and I don't think it will really matter in the raiders, I would probably like the added length better....now I am waiting for the folks at FS to get back to me and let me know what they have for me to look at...

Thanks for all of the advise, thoughts, comments.

I have personally owned both. The Raiders leans more toward the A-2 in styling, and rode up on me. I gave it to my daughters boyfriend, and he's still wearing it. It was a lot heavier weight than the Expedition too. Nice jacket and plenty of pockets for gear. I just wish it had fit me better. Regards. Michaelson

In the expedition, what leather would end up wearing in best? I am not worried about durability as I am sure I will not roll down any hills with it, but I would like something that will wear and drape well. They are offereing lamb and goat right now.

Surprised to hear the raiders is heavier, probably the cowhide, if that is what you had.

Thanks again.

The Raiders was cowhide. Have to admit, it was physically the heaviest jacket I've ever had come through the door. Great for cold weather wear, but pretty limited where I currently live.

The goatskin is the best hide bar none on the Expedition. The lambskin is nice and light, but the goatskin is actually lighter in weight physically (or feels that way to me), and yet inch for inch MUCH stronger in fiber resilency. My Expedition is one of the first production goatskin jackets made, and it's as soft as can be, and wear great.

Regards. Michaelson

Michaelson, thanks

Joel