herbert johnson fedora

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:05 am

Question for the fedora pro's? I see there are different places that provide the hebert Johnsons can anyone explain what the differance to me and thanks in advance.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:25 am

Welcome jpenman,

I am guessing you have looked at these three places?

Todd's costume provides HJs
http://www.toddscostumes.com/indy/herbe ... fedora.htm

Indy Fedora sells HJs
http://www.indyfedora.com/main.htm

And, Swaine Adeney Brigg claims to sell them too.
http://www.swaineadeneybrigg.net/produc ... asp?id=249

I understand that Todd and Indy Fedora have a similar source and work toward screen accuracy. Whereas the Swain Adeney Brigg are more retail and not as screen or costume accurate. Anyone is free to elaborate or correct me on this. As it's a little foggy in my mind as well.

A poster and hatmaker by the name of Fedora has had some first hand experience with rebuilding and blocking HJs. Many users have observed taper or shrinkage near the top after wearing their HJs over time.

I'll let others chime in on the difference, problems and solutions.

Again, welcome.

Pyroxene

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:58 am

The new HJ is not a bad hat, in fact, the felt is the best that they have had since I have been seeing them. It is not the best felt in the world, but it is on par with most of the other offerings. And unlike some of the earlier HJs, it is true dress felt for a change. I have an issue with the block, as it does not give you a real straight up hat on the back, but looks good from the front. It is the perfect LC block though, and is exactly what was used for the LC hat. The liner and sweat are not real good quality, but passable. I am adding HJs to my line of hats, and will have it on my website soon. At a savings. Being a fellow fan, I will do the same with tis hat as I did with the pure beaver. Make them more affordable for folks who must own one. regards, Fedora

Luisiana Jones · Post by **Luisiana Jones** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:46 am

As Fedora said, HJ are great hats and i had an argument in my head to decide wether to buy a HJ or an AB (for me the AB wins), if i had to buy a HJ, as i was going to do some time ago, i would buy it from Todds Costumes, they ship internationally, its fast, they shape your hat, you can choose which crest you want, well i think its a much better service than indyfedora.

well hope to be of some help

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:09 am

Pyroxene wrote:I understand that Todd and Indy Fedora have a similar source and work toward screen accuracy. Whereas the Swain Adeney Brigg are more retail and not as screen or costume accurate.

Yeah, that's pretty much it to a T. I believe that Todd has done costumes for movies as well, and that is part of his professional background. I've been looking into snagging am HJ from Todd's just to complete my hat collection, and sit it side by side with my Adventurebilt.

Regards,

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:51 am

thaks for the info.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:39 pm

As Fedora said, HJ are great hats

Kind sir, I never said they were great hats.

They are run of the mill hats with that magical name inside. I did say that the current felt is more of a dress felt than the past offerings. Great hats start with top drawer felt, that the HJ does not exhibit. And, I could never get the Raiders look from these hats when viewed from all sides. Too much front and back taper. But, with that said, they are worth what I will charge for them, 185 stock, and 200 with the Raiders block and ribbon. To me, and I am looking at one now, the HJs are the sort of hat that you buy one each year, just like you would shoes. They are disposable hats, like everything else in modern society. They are not meant to last you a lifetime. On the other hand, high quality hats are meant to be worn for years and years, and capable of handling as many reblocks it it takes. You can buy hats of this caliber from Art Fawcett(he is using my same felter now), and of course ###### who specializes in belly beaver felt. All of the excellent hats nowdays come from custom shops, and not factory made hats. Factories generally have a big eye on bottom line, and are notorious for using bodies that cost them 5 bucks or less. Seratelli, a huge feltmaker, has bodies that start at under 5 bucks for 2x and run up to 1500x that will set you back right at 800 bucks, and that is just the body. We are talking cowboy hats here, with Seratelli as they supply alot of the western market. With that said, I do not know of a custom western hatter that uses them.

Because their prices do not reflect the actual quality of their top drawer felt, i.e pure beaver. Probably more inside info than most care to hear, but I am on a roll.

Fedora

Luisiana Jones · Post by **Luisiana Jones** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:27 am

lol thanks Fedora, its always good to know more about hats

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:09 am

Many moons ago, Fedora posted a story that he had heard once. Let me see if I can get it together...

There was a farmer whos hat got taken by the wind and taken to a pool of mud in which it sank imediately. The farmer's son wanted to fetch the hat, but the farmer told him off and said that a good hat could take it and that they'd fetch the hat next summer when the mud had dried out. Several months later they shoveled out the old hat, that the farmer had worn for many years and that had spent the last months in the mud. He got it cleaned and reblocked and it looked like new again.

That is why I buy high quality hats. They can take the treatment I give them.

Regards,

Marc

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:39 am

I didn't realize you were a professional mud wrestler, Marc!

Once you own a high quality hat, it's hard to want anything esle. Sure, I'll aways love and own hats of varying quality and brand, but my Adventurebilt has been the hat I've walked out the door with 99% of the time. Not only is it comfortable and attractive, it holds up like only a high quality hat can. Mine went from the cold Midwest to warm, hot, and humid Mexico and back to instantly cold Midwest again in the course of a week. The hat didn't think anything of it.

bink

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:12 pm

I didn't realize you were a professional mud wrestler, Marc!

I've been called worse, so...

I know what you're saying Bink. One becomes snobbish over time. Don't read anything bad into it. Just a fact. I know back in the days, when I discovered Indygear.com (heck, it was the reason I got myself a modem). I read on the main pages about a guy called Steve Delk, who bought himself a GW for 400bux or so

I was completely off my mind to say the least. How could someone seriously spend 400$ on a HAT?! - Little did I know

and as time went by, I also spend that amount (and more) on hats. Would I ever wear the hats I started out with? - You bet no! Did I waste a fortune on hats I don't even call my own anymore? - Let's put it that way: it's been a learning process. Was it worth it? - For me it was. I'm am now in the possition to tell good from bad. I know what I've got in a hat and I might save other people from spending a fortune on things they don't want. To me that's worth big deals, when people ask me where to buy.

Regards,

Marc (co-admin of www.indyartifacts.de)

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:03 am

fedora wrote: Probably more inside info than most care to hear, but I am on a roll. Fedora

On the contrary, keep rolling my friend, as I love the inside info on felt and hat makers.

fedoralover

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:58 pm

Oh, don't worry, Marc, I'm not reading anything bad, at all!

I've become a snob about various things over time, and I'd admit to being a hat snob myself. My love of hats is a constantly evolving journey. Even a year ago I coud hardly imagine spending much over $100 for a hat (though many of my good vintage hats were great finds). After buying the Adventurebilt, I could see that it was well worth the money! Sure, I'll pay for a quality hat, but I try to be a wise shopper about it, too.

Like you, I like to take what I've learned and help others who are still learning make an educated buy. As a musician, I've made plenty of mistakes and poor choices in buying guitars and equipment. Now, when I see a kid (or adult) who obviously doesn't know what to look for in a guitar, I happily spend the time to teach him or her some of the basics (how to spot a good/bad neck, playability, price, etc). When I used to work at a music store, I'd even tell customers to shop around if they had to, since I'd much rather have happy customers find the right instrument (even at another shop) than an unhappy one returning something they didn't like.

The same is true with hats. For some folks, an Akubra, Keppler, PB, or Optimo is the perfect buy for them. But in my experience, the Adventurebilt is the best value for the money and is every bit as good as the vintage hats I love. So if someone wants my advice, I'll gladly give it. But more importantly, if you're happy with whatever hat you buy, regardless of the price or quality, then wear it in good health! It's more important that you're happy with the hat you choose to put on your head!

bink

Luisiana Jones · Post by **Luisiana Jones** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:08 pm

lol i believe the same as you do bink, in fact soon im getting an AB but till now ive always wore my disney fedora with honor, and happiness ( and i had 14 years when i bought it)

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:54 pm

As a musician,

Bink, we need to get together and do some jamming. Me, you and Rick5150. I may not play what most of you guys play, but I can do so many variations of the 12 bar blues, and plenty of southern rock. We could get Havershaw to let use his studio(he has dropped off of the map, does anyone hear from him at all anymore?) regards, Fedora

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:55 pm

Fedora, I'd gladly trade some 12-bar blues with you! What I play is so diverse, I'm sure I could attempt most anything! I'll bring down an old Gretsch and a tube amp.

Maybe you could start making some black hats with shorter brims and call them "AdventureBlues Hats!"

bink

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:10 pm

Well, you can't call yourselves "The Raiders". I think Paul Revere still uses that name.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:54 pm

Dakota is correct..Raiders would be out of the question, Paul Revere is still very much out and about and doing his thing. You could consider; Indy's Latest Find, or, This Belongs in a Museum, or, We Belong in a Museum

! Hey, for what it is worth, I play keyboards and love the blues...Michaelson plays too -- don't know if he does blues, but he is an O
rgan guy, and I prefer piano, so what the hey -- could be the 'Start of something Big (Sorry, Steve Allen)! Of course, you could name the band the 'Traveling Fedoras

! Well, just some thoughts, anyway. All regards! W>

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:38 am

I know! Fedora and The Fortune and Glory Band. Or The Last Crusaders.
Maybe.... The AdventureBilts. I can play a little rythmn guitar and harmonica.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:28 am

WConly wrote:Michaelson plays too -- don't know if he does blues, but he is an Organ guy.... W>

Ummm...

bink

VP · Post by VP » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:32 am

Back on topic.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:04 am

I can play a little rythmn guitar and harmonica

Shades of Neil Young. I play his music as well. Dakota, can you mimic the falsetta voice of Neil? Pagey just looks like he would play, and he plays the blues too!! We have the makings of a band here.

Fedora

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:29 am

Putting this a bit back on topic.. Fedora, do you know when you plan on offering the HJ on your site?

bink

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:35 am

Putting this a bit back on topic.. Fedora, do you know when you plan on offering the HJ on your site?

bink

And taking it back off again, I play also: blues and intrumental surf music on a Fender Strat. I can also do a mean Jimmy Page. We could have one of those massive bands with a bunch of guitarists like they do at award shows and the Rock N'Roll hall of fame.

As for Herbert Johnsons, I used to really want one. But after getting my Adventurebilt, I have no desire for another hat. Except for additional Adventurebilts. Hearing that Fedora would be offering them is encouraging.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:36 am

My latest HJ.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:09 pm

On again, off again. I'm gettin' dizzy. 8-[

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:13 pm

Dakota,

Nice hat!! Where did you get that from, and did you shape it yourself? I am seriously considering getting an HJ to complete my hat collection. I figure an HJ would find itself a place of honor next to my Adventurebilt

, but with Fedora's "the current HJ's are a hat you would replace each year" comments, I'm starting to wonder if it's a good idea or not.

I was just curious where you got yours, as I was thinking of buying from Todd's Costumes.

Regards,

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:45 pm

I ordered mine from Todd before Christmas. They originally thought they could supply me, but ran out of stock, so as they were ordering new stock, I asked for an uncut brim and unbashed crown. In other words, a regular Poet. That's what I got, in February. I cut the brim myself and shaped the crown. There is no stiffener whatsoever in this hat. I believe, from Fedora's description, that it's the same felt HJ is using now. I wear it every day, but it's too soon to tell how it will look in the long run.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:00 pm

I got one of these in for a reblock, from Afganistan, a couple of months ago. The color had faded really bad, and the hat looked like it had been through some sand storms. You just have to be careful when reblocking these hats as the brim will tear off at the stitch line. Been there, done that.

With that said, the hat was really fuzzy, but I fixed that too with some singeing and pouncing. I sold our serviceman two of my hats after fixin his HJ. I am curious as to what the AB will look like after his stint over there. Also, when I say disposable, just remember that this is not intended as a cut on the hat, but rather, higher quality felt just lasts longer. Figure, most commercially produced hats are disposable hats. That is the way they are made. Planned oblescence if you will. You wear it out, get a new one. Nothing wrong with that. regards, Fedora

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:35 pm

Yes, the stitching on this HJ is right at the bottom of the ribbon. If the ribbon rides up a bit (as they do) you can see them. I poked under my Optimo's ribbon and there are wider, obviously hand sewn stitches that are not right at the brim line.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:55 pm

Yeah, the brim break weakens the felt(a necessary evil) and adding the stitch line there insures a brim in one hand and a crown in the other. Well, you can reblock it, but you better be careful, and it better be a fairly new hat.

Some more very interesting info on the current HJs, that I do not understand at all. In a converation with one of the HJ people, a fellow fan here, was surprised when he was told that the HJs are not blocked with steam, or water. They are dry blocked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That would explain the taper on the left side of mine when I got it. The felt is never stablized. I have noticed that since I reblocked mine with my block, it is holding the shape well. Of course, I have not got it wet yet. This dry blocking is a new one on me, as I had never heard of it. I guess they used that contraption, but do not put the steam to it to help stretch the felt .(no drying time) I guess that may speed up the production. God I hate hat factories. There should be a law against it. You heard it here folks, and I trust the fan who told this to me. Fedora

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:44 pm

Yes, the stitching on this HJ is right at the bottom of the ribbon.

I think that's accurate to the Raiders hat.
See this pic:

Edit: I removed the pic- Dakota got a better one! See below!

VP · Post by VP » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:19 am

Hey, Pyro's hat is screen accurate! viewtopic.php?t=10016

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:55 am

Here's a better shot:

Whipcrack · Post by **Whipcrack** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:18 pm

Marc wrote:Many moons ago, Fedora posted a story that he had heard once. Let me see if I can get it together...

There was a farmer whos hat got taken by the wind and taken to a pool of mud in which it sank imediately. The farmer's son wanted to fetch the hat, but the farmer told him off and said that a good hat could take it and that they'd fetch the hat next summer when the mud had dried out. Several months later they shoveled out the old hat, that the farmer had worn for many years and that had spent the last months in the mud. He got it cleaned and reblocked and it looked like new again.

That is why I buy high quality hats. They can take the treatment I give them.

Regards,

Marc

When I ordered my Optimo I gave my address and Graham said “we have a lot of customers in your area.” I was surprised until he said a large number of the Amish and Mennonites wear Optimos. Those guys know quality and will pay for the best.

Wasn’t it another religious guy, Confucius, who said “by quality cry once?”

Thanks
Bill Walton

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:31 pm

Marc wrote:
I didn't realize you were a professional mud wrestler, Marc!
I read on the main pages about a guy called Steve Delk, who bought himself a GW for 400bux or so I was completely off my mind to say the least. How could someone seriously spend 400$ on a HAT?!

In case anyone wonders what ever HAPPENED to that GW, it's still alive and well after a couple rebuilds, and living in Tennessee.

Regards. Michaelson

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:43 am

Without starting "it" all over again, but I wasn't referring to Optimo.

Regards,

Marc

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:59 am

If you're referring to my post, I said 'GW' in my post, as you did in yours, Marc. Why would anyone thing it was an Optimo?

:

For those who don't know, GW is a Gary White.

Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:14 pm

Not to be confused with Barry White.

Though that hat's got a lotta soul...

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:09 pm

Naaa, I wasn't referring to your post Michaelson! Rather to Bill's, who used my post in reference to Optimo

Oh man, I've followed that GW throughout the years... Steve got it and wasn't happy with how the sweatband was only tacket in - what was it? - four(?) places. Then, later, you got the hat and had it rebuild from either Joe jr. or Jim at Petersbros., right? I think the crown came out a bit short or so... 5" open crown, if I'm not completely mistaken. So it went back to the original owner for a reblock again. Then it remained silent about the GW until Adam (Rundquist) got his made after he saw a new Raiders version on that "hat summit" and it was mentioned here and there again. Especially due to the differences compared to the newer GW...

Michaelson, I think you have gotton yourself a piece of Indygear history there

Regards,

Marc

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:22 pm

And I know it. It's been worked on by Steve and Peter's bros (twice), and made a round trip to the Queen Mary for MK's fedora 'shootout' that you mention above.
It's been retired after it made it's last visit for rebuild to Peters Bros last year, as it's been sewn and re-sewn so many times for ribbons, the infamous perforation that Steve has preached against due to machine sewing has reared it's ugly head, and I've been warned if it's reblocked again, there' s very good chance the brim will tear off. So, it's pulled out and worn in good weather on occasion, but is enjoying a well deserved retirement. Regards. Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:31 pm

Ah, so the old GW is still alive and kicking!!! Glad to hear it. Michaelson, I gotta feeling you never throw a hat away.

I bet you still have that old Broner. I can't talk though, I still have that old Deluxe Federation that kept me from getting a head injury. I never complained much about stiffer felt after that.

And I think I still have a Bushman and perhaps a Nostalgia stuffed in some crack. Hard to toss em, especially after you get attached to them. Never had that problem with shoes though. I normally can't wait to throw an old pair away. Good riddance. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:36 pm

Fedora wrote:I bet you still have that old Broner.

Uh, well, uh....yes. 8-[ Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:36 am

Old Mother Fedora
opened the doora
to fetch poor Michaelson a Broner...

Waitaminute... I'm getting my nursery rhymes mixed up again...

bink

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:40 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Old Mother Fedora
opened the doora
to fetch poor Michaelson a Broner...

Waitaminute... I'm getting my nursery rhymes mixed up again...

bink

Indeed you do, Sir. I believe the good Doctor's rhymes would be more appropriate:

Have no fear!
Bink comes here!
He's going to post about Indy-gear!
[---]
There are hats and shirts and trousers, too
and whips that are made out of 'roo!
The bag that will be worn by you
was made way back in world-war two!
[---]
Tapered fedora?
I say no.
Take that tapered fedora and go!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:42 am

Thanks, SJ, I needed that.

bink

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:19 pm

Thanks for all the info guys desided to get both the herbert johnson from Todd's and adventurebilt. Placed my order a couple of days ago, Both were seamed like nice guys and was easy to deal with.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:19 pm

jpenman wrote:Thanks for all the info guys desided to get both the herbert johnson from Todd's and adventurebilt.

My favorite approach.
"Why buy one when you can get two at twice the price."

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:17 am

It is very much a obssesion, but to late to change that now.

herbert johnson fedora

herbert johnson fedora

fedora

Re: fedora

fedora