Club Obi Wan

O.K., that's just my theory. I think it came off the type of block with the bashes carved in it. There's a lot of bumps and junk going on in the top bash of the Raiders hat. Specificly, a line about an inch forward of the rear end of the bash, going from side to side. It's like a little ridge with deep impressions on either side on the right side of the bash and less noticeable on the left side. I always tried to imagine this was the crown to side transition point, but it's too extreme. I think I figured it out today. I got a new BCF Tonak, a beautifull soft, dark brown with thin felt. Not too floppy. I turned it and put in the top bash and there was the Raiders line and bumps! It's bashes are formed on the block, and it looks just like this Miller. When you pop this top bash out, the bash transition points remain obvious and prominent. There's even like a second little dome on top of the main dome. I know that hat turning gives you irregular top bashes, and pinching them will put some lumps here and there. - but this Raiders feature is in every scene- it's deep and permanent. I admit- it's a very small detail ...And here's another theory- What if you wanted a tight front pinch in that Miller. You might be tempted to start it on the front edge of one of those two front bashes....... It's the perfect distance from the center.

The Raiders hat was never open crowned.

Yes it was!

Now the TOD hat... that's another story.

I'd say once you popped the "original" bashes up on the Raiders hat, the open crown would look basicly the same as Fedora's Adventurebuilts. Just a little bumpier here and there. ....Did I say "small detail"? I was wrong. .. I can add these features to the exterior of my open crown block (instead of making a wierd, prebashed block, and it should work if I iron them using the tip.? Here's the back of my new Tonak- Imagine a bash throgh the (turned of course ) middle of that, and one inch beyond.

sorry,
But it puzzles me why in the devil you spend so much time
on something like this when you could be out side, doing something
just more productive. I like the style of the films, but im not trying
to copy every single part of his hat, finger print for finger print.
Im sorry, but this whole thing with the hat is just crazy. I personally
dont think your whole theroy about anything on the raiders hat is true.
To me the bash turn seems like a whole load of lard. If i was a costume
artist, id buy a hat, and stick it on the actors head. Sorry, all of this has
been in my mind for years. I believe it has to do with long oval sizing, to regular hat sizing. I really wear a long oval, so any hat i put on
looks raiders like, and has the swoop, taper, sweatband dent, exe.
Kindest regards,
Adam

3thoubucks,
I know you have spent lots of time on your theories,
please dont take it personal. Its just what i think. Hey,
this is coming from someone who only works on whips at
12am to 3am uasualy Take it lightly, ok, its just after
4 years almost after listing to this i just had to tell you what i
think. Melty, Its too cold out here too. I uasuly need 4 layers just
to take a walk.
Adam

3thou,

It was absolutely open crowned and there are lots of folks around here who can back that up with letter from Swales himself. It began life as an HJ Poet with an open crown, plain and simple.

But keep up the good theories. It's great to keep the conversations going.

Best,
Ken

I won't get into the argument, except to say, the Raiders hat was turned, turned, turned. It is impossible to replicate that brim shape without the turn. Trust me. Fedora

4 or 5 years ago I made this replica of the Raiders hat in cemet and plaster. I worked from 40 35mm pics I took off my TV. Also pics in print and on the web. So that's how long I've been keenly aware of this feature. Here it is naturally in my Tonak It's the transition point in the Tonak block's pre formed top bash. The bash is a little shorter because the Tonak has a lot of taper.............Ford didn't sign a release that he would only wear the hat Swales personally sold him...There was another hat bought by Nadoolman wasn't there? Plus 40 more hats bought from HJ for the production. He could be wearing one of those. Someone could have been sent to buy a couple more brown HJ 7 1/4's without telling anyone at the shop what they were for............................................................................................................Melty Man and Molorom- I'll respond to your insolence because thankfully, you saved this post from oblivion....5 years ago I would have "gone outside" myself, and done some "extreme" mountain bike down hilling or something, but now I'm 51. I want to do something productive before I die. I wanted to be an "Artist" when I grew up. I can set up an easel anywhere, and oil paint you the landscape, no problem. It requires acute observation. It's what I've trained myself to do. My latest theory may be bogus, but it makes sense to me at this time.

$3K -

You are indeed one of the more knowledgeable persons around here regarding the anathomy of the Raiders hat. Several of your theories regarding the ROTLA lid are facts in my book. This, however, I don't buy. Your proof for the IOTOC theory (that is "ixnay-on-the-open-crown-theory" ) is a sculpted model you made while studying a bashed hat? That is, your sculpted model is a highly accurate design replica of the Raiders hat, therefore all Raiders hats were shaped on a block with similar, if not identical features? A misplaced deductive reasoning of sorts, IMHO.

Besides, ROTLA was just a movie in the process of being made back then. I seriously doubt that Spielberg, Nadoolman, Swales or whoever would've put that much effort in "just a hat". Lucky circumstances and a certain eye for the dramatic look gave the hat it's almost magical features we love so much.

An interesting theory, though, $3K! Keep'em coming!

I think one thing we should all try to keep in mind here is this:

The costumers for the film did not go out of their way to turn the hat. They did not go out of their way to specifically get a non-open crowned hat then rebash the heck out of it. They did not go out of their way to do a MILLION of the things in 3thou$ theory.

However, all of the above could have happened by CHANCE. I'm sure they didn't do it on purpose, but that doesn't mean it never happened! What 3thou$ has been trying to figure out for a while now is exactly what chance occurences happened to effect the shape of the hat/hats, I think.

Just because it wasn't intentional doesn't mean it didn't happen

Cheers,

Craig

I think if you like the raiders look you do whatever it takes to give you that look. But I have noticed that if you are a long oval it is much easier to get the look that you are looking for. Just pull from front to back on you hat and you will get the reverse taper and the famous raiders brim.
Just a thought,

Hatman

Wheather this theory is true or not is not really the point for me. If it makes an Indy Fedora look even more screen accurate or not, THAT is the point for me.

I've been following 3thoubucks theories over the years and can agree to some of them, while others just make me scratch my hat. So? At least he MAKES me scratch my head, in a hobby that started more then 20 years ago for some of us and in which basicly all facts should be discovered by now. This is, what makes this hobby fun. The small nitpicky details (yeah, I'm obsessed ).

Did they - perhaps by chance - change the creases that were blocked in on the HJ Poet? - Is it really that important?



The hat in this picture DOES have that certain Raiders Fedora configuration in the back of the top crease. If it was archived the same way as on THE hats - I really don't care.

Thanks for sharing 3thoubucks.

Regards,

Marc

Most interesting!

When I first read your review and saw the pics, I thought you had put in these wrinkles artificially...

Regards,

Marc

I've got to admit Langpuss, that is compelling, and a beautiful hat. You've given me a lot to consider...but I don't feel completely blown out of the water yet. . I think my theory is the truth and I'll be back with proof.

dang, that's a nice hat, and cool new avatar, langpuss!