Club Obi Wan

I had an "Official Indiana Jones" (Cooper/U.S. Wings) distressed cowhide jacket that I wore for about ten years. I finally decided that it needed a cleaning so I had a dry cleaner send it out for cleaning. When it came back it had gone from a chocolate milk color to off-white. It had been ruined.

I have since replaced it with a G&B dark brown goat Expedition jacket. Obviously, I waited quite awhile before having my last Indy jacket cleaned. My two questions are: 1) For those who have had their jackets professionally cleaned, how long did you wait before cleaning it? 2) How happy were you with the end result? Did the color change?

Axel

Indy Jacket, cleaned? Cleaned for me is wiping it with a damp cloth. Other than that I expect to wear it until it falls off me, then replace it with a new one!

Just curious, had you recently used Pecards or some leather conditioner on it before sending out for dry cleaning. Also, I’ve been told a professional leather cleaner and your typical dry cleaning establishment is not the same.

Rixter,

At the time I did not know of Pecard's. I had periodically used leather lotion of some kind, but I do not think that I had used it around the time of the cleaning. Is there an interaction between Pecard's and leather cleaning?

The dry cleaner farmed it out to a leather cleaner.

Axel

I wouldn't trust anyone cleaning a leather jacket but me. I have used (sparingly) soap and water, or alchohol to clean the leather. I have never had to clean a lining so I don't know how that would be done without affecting the leather shell

Ahh... I think I recall Flathead mentioning something about if a conditioner contains bee’s wax and used on certain leathers (maybe it was shearlings) it may cause the effect you described - but I can’t find it. I would hope he might refresh my memory on this. However, it’s probably more important to know what did the leather cleaner OR dry cleaner who sent it out say about that? I should think they are responsible, and I would definitely pay them a visit directly if nearby.

Well, if I remember correctly, my -unfortunately now stolen - Avirex lambskin Varsity Jacket had a label inside, that warned of exactly the effect described. Dry cleaning the jacket, it said, would take off the finish and leave it a brownish washed-out shade...
So, I guess, that is what happened to the Cooper...
Well, but that's just my two cents

Cheers
MLM

Following up, I asked someone who knows a few things about cleaning leather jackets. There are several things that could cause the problem. A few of the more typical are if the manufacuter used naptha in it’s distressing process, or if it had not been conditioned recently and the hide was ‘dryed out’ it could cause the problem you described. In either of those cases, you would also notice that the jacket may be stiffer now than when you sent it out (you didn’t mention that so maybe not in your case).

The good news is that if you are really fond of that jacket, and it is a grainy type cowhide, as opposed to a buffed or smooth finish hide, the color can be restored somewhat, but to ensure the best results, it may have to be redyed. I don’t know how much you paid for your jacket, or, how much it cost you to have your jacket cleaned, but I’ve dealt with a reputable, highly recommended place that will do a complete re-cleaning, re-conditioning, AND if needed, re-dying or restoring to any color you desire for around $50 plus shipping, but, in your case, more likely it would be closer to $38 plus shipping.

Also, before you decide, you may want to try this on your own first. You might try using what some here have also used, Lexol PH (or the kit with both conditioner and cleaner) to clean the leather following the instructions, and then using something like Pecards dressing (tinted) to condition the leather. It won’t hurt the jacket, but it may not bring the color back totally, if at all, to what you want.

http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9590

ever had letap remove some color from your jacket? sometimes it leaves brown marks on my cloth

Is the outer finish actually removed? Or is there some sort of whitish
stuff on the outside?

The shearling jackets are tanned, and prepared differently than cowhide,
lambskin, or goatskin jackets.

If your Avirex jacket was made to the original WWII specs, which I really
highly doubt, but if it was, it had a hardened finish that was either hand, or
spray applied, and it would have hardened to a very stiff finish which was
made to repell rain, oil, and gas. Once this finish has been either cracked,
or worn away, the shearling is pure white underneath.

Your regular leather jackets are tanned and colored differently, and they
should have an outer finish that will slowly rub off, leaving the tan highlights
underneath in the worn/distressed areas.

If your jacket is tan now after it was "cleaned", then the place
that did it used the wrong cleaning agents, and they totally removed the
entire outer coloring.

If you take some saddle soap, which you can buy at just about any
grocery store or super market, and follow the directions, and clean a
small spot on your ruined jacket, see if the tan/whitish color comes off.

If, after doing this, you can see some of the original brown finish coming
back, then your jacket is coated with some form of by product from
the cleaning process.

If it does not, then your jacket is indeed ruined, and you will need to take it
back to the place you originally brought the jacket to get it cleaned, and
demand they fix it to the condition it was received! If they sent it out
to some other place, as you stated, then they are still responsible, as
they used another agent to do their job, and they are still the responsible
party on this agents behalf.

Sometimes, if products that contain bees wax or other silicones are used
on these types of leathers, the wax/silicone can clog the pores of the
hide, and it can sit in there until the hide gets wet, and then this wax/silicone
will come to the surface, and make the jacket appear with a whitish color
to it.

Either way, you should take the jacket back to the place you asked to
clean it, and demand they either fix it, have it re-dyed, or have them buy
you an equivelent replacement.

Flathead

Thanks for all the good comments. This happened at least 2 years ago. I took it back to the cleaner and voiced my displeasure. He ended up coloring it to a light tan color. The problem with this was two-fold. First, all the distressing of the leather was covered up. Second, the coat now had a vinyl-feeling finish. I don't know what he used to recolor the jacket, but it was almost like some kind of a fabric paint. I tried to get him to pay for the jacket, but he refused.

I honestly don't remember where I stored the jacket now. I pretty much wanted to put this bad experience out of my mind, and chalk it up to a life lesson learned. I don't know if the jacket can be redyed after the cleaner did his coloring job.

The jacket was about $250 back in 1992 when I bought it. I don't know that I'm willing to spend money trying to restore it when I probably would not end up fully satisfied anyway. You know how picky we COW members are about our gear.

Based on my bad experience, I am leery of having my new G&B Expo cleaned when it eventually needs it. Based on the apparent lack of COW members who have had their Indy jackets professionally cleaned, it sounds like I am not alone. I have Lexol pH which I could use on the leather. My concern would be cleaning the lining. Of course by the time it needs it, it may be better to just have the lining replaced, provided that G&B will still perform that service at a reasonable price.

Axel

That’s always the problem, the cost/benefit ratio whenever it comes to get ANYTHING repaired or fixed. The trick is always finding the proper place or person you can have faith in to do the job they say they will do. And unfortunately, when you do find one, you’ll find you cannot do it on the ‘cheap’.

That’s what is great about this forum; you not only hear the ‘ooO’s and ahh’s’ about how great an item is, but you also learn from people who have had bad experiences so that it can help others possibly avoid making similar costly mistakes. I hope that ability to express your honest opinion is never hampered, and equally important, never abused by members.

My advice that I pass on to you that I got when I first became a member is to research the area you live in. In addition to keeping an ear out for customer referrals from friends and co-workers, call various ‘high end’ shops that sell leather goods to see who they use or various dry cleaners who will give out information for professional leather cleaning/repair. Soon you will have at least a short list from which to choose from. After considerable effort I found a local place that does most all of our Police Departments jackets and repairs and also does work on military jackets and other apparel for a nearby military base. It may take a bit of effort to find, but it sure pays off in the long run.

Also, in your case, I would call G&B and they will give you a couple of places that they will recommend. Although their recommendations may not be located in your area, they are in a position to know more about it simply because of the volume of jackets that pass through their hands and a familiarity of the problems they encounter from their vast clientele.

Moderators: This thread might be better suited to the 'Gear & Distressing' forum like the other link above. Not that I want to tell you what to do or anything. ...no ...no, not me!

Rixter,

I had originally intended to put this in "Gear and Distressing", but out of habit I posted it in "Leather Jacket."

That is a good idea to see whom G&B would recommend. I'll keep it in mind. Even if I have to ship it out of state, at least I would have the comfort of knowing it will be cleaned properly.

Axel

My oldest and most often worn leather jacket was a police motorcycle jacket, which I wore when riding. I never had it cleaned with anything other than saddle soap and leather conditioner of one kind or another, done myself. This jacket got dirty too, with road grime and splattered bugs. I even sprayed it down with a garden hose a few times to rinse off the saddle soap. It had a removable insulated liner, which occassionally went in the dryer with a fabric softener sheet and a few shots of Febreeze to get the odors out. The sewn in liner never really needed any cleaning, it was nylon taffeta.

Slightly off topic but on several threads I have noticed Cooper and U.S. Wings mentioned together and I think at least one stating Cooper makes the U S Wings branded jackets.

I was on the phone today trying to get the right B-3 jacket sent to me (third try BTW) and mention one of them was branded Avirex and the latest was branded US Wings to which I added probably meant Cooper made it. I got an immediate "the jackets are made for us but it certianly would not be Cooper". The girl seemed to imply the Coopers are easily distiguished as being far lighter and less well made.

Anyone know for sure who makes them.

Tony

Tony,

So you were on the phone with U.S. Wings and they said that Cooper did not make their Indy jackets?

All I know is what is written on the Indy Gear main site "Gear" and "FAQ" sections as far as the Cooper, U.S. Wings connection.

Perhaps someone more in the know can comment.

Axel

Cooper USED to make the Wings offered Indy jackets. Wings had a falling out with Cooper several years ago, and built their own production line in Stow, Ohio, and have produced their own Indy jackets ever since. They then partnered up to offer Avirex jackets through their catalog and website after their break with Cooper. Regards. Michaelson

Cooper no longer makes the jacket. I called them a couple of months back.

Does anyone know what year Cooper stopped making the U.S. Wings jacket?

Axel

After nearly ten years of wear the inside collar of my Indy jacket definitely was showing soiling. A darker jacket may not show the dirt as easily.

Axel

Thanks for the Cooper / US Wings info. It looks like they are thinning out the Aiveirex stuff too as the first B-3 they sent me was an Avirex which was too large. They replaced it with a US Wings branded jacket which was equally as long just narrower. I asked whether the next replacement (long story) would be Avirex or US Wings and was told they are discontinuing the Avirex and I must of gotten one of the few left. Had the same deal a year or two ago on an A2.

While not an Indy jacket the B-3 is impressive. I have wanted one for nearly 15 years now. Sold off most of my older ill-fitting stuff for the B-3 and a Wested TOD. Still after a nice vintage looking G-2 which will likely come from flightjackets.com

Tony