Club Obi Wan

Which Jacket is better? Which Jacket fits better? The leather? The $100 difference? Please Advise

To be frank, and not to seem overbearing, but are you kidding me?????????? Flightsuits still beats the US Wings jacket by about a hundred times over on all points. From accuracy to material quality, the Flightsuits still remains the top dog of all Indy jackets. Now would be the time to buy from them before the customer service and who knows what else goes down, the jackets are still good for now, better buy now. I own both the FS goat and lambskin as well as two Wested's and hands down the FS ar way better than anything I have ever seen. Go with an Expedition, save the extra cash, and get something that is 100% accurate and well worth every dime. The goat is one of the best hides I have owned, durable, the accurate color, and just looks superb. The lamb is wonderful as well, a little dark, but drapes perfect and distresses naturally very well. The US Wings jacket have always been a kinda knock-off type jacket, very inaccurate. But standing by that I must say from I have seen they are well made jackets, but I would never buy one personally. The FS Expedition is the best jacket all around, top dog, go for it.

Bogie1943....I like your pic, that's pretty cool!

I've never owned a USWings Indy jacket before, so I really can't comment on them. Even though I have heard that they are made to quality military standards, they are not exactly "screen accurate." I think, unfortunately, that some folks here even had problems just trying to simply exchange them....so, that's another thought to consider. But, I've read that they are pretty similar (or fairly close to) the Temple of Doom jacket....

I can agree with Bogie1943, if I had to decide where I would put my money....USWings v.s. Flightsuits...I would personally go with the Flightsuits Goat. I've tried on a Flightsuits jacket once before (at an Indy summit) and am actually in the process of getting one. They are very nice, very screen accurate, and well worth the money I hear....

Best wishes on your decision!
Captain D

Flightsuit matches their hides so the grain on all their jackets matches throughout the entire piece. I have owned goatskin Wings jackets where sleeves don't match any way, shape or form. That said, though, one of my favorite jackets that passed through my hands was a Wings goatskin. I gave it away because the sleeves drew up to almost 2 inches above my wrists. The biggest problem with Wings is sizing, plain and simple. If they'd move away from the S-M-L-XL sizing and into the actual sizing like Flightsuits does, they'd made a MUCH bigger dent in the market.
In my opinion, FS has a HUGE edge over Wings...but only in the details of the production, if you set aside the real 'correct details' regarding screen accuracy. I'm talking specifically about jacket production here. I have owned both companies products over the years, and I can not honestly say that one's materials is better than the others regarding goatskin....but in the details, Wings has a lot to learn from FS, and that's sad. I really like Wings products too. When you get hold of a really good fitting and well made Wings jacket, you'll not let it go. If that goatskin Wings jacket had the right length sleeves, I'd STILL be wearing it today, and proudly. Quality control at Wings is lacking. I actually had one jacket arrive at my door that had the lining in one sleeve completely twisted and sewn IN that way, and this one came directly from David Hack for me to review!!! How in the world did it get by QC, let alone be shipped by the CEO of the company to someone for review!!?? I've never heard of such a thing from FS, even through all the iterations we did with them on the Expedition. Very very odd, and once again, upsetting to this writer. As a matter of record, I ended up taking the jacket sleeve apart myself and fixing it. It also ended up on the back of another one of our members who used to 'lurk' here. Haven't seen them around for a while, come to think of it.

Once again, just my opinion based on my personal experience with the products in question.
Regards. Michaelson

I'm actually wearing my Dark Brown Goatskin USWings today. It's a nice jacket. Compared to my Flightsuit (seal chrome goat), the 'Wing's leather is a lot thicker and heavier and has a cloth lining. A nice early winter/early spring jacket. My Flightsuit leather is a lot thinner, and therefore not as good in the winter but is a great fall/spring/summer jacket. Color wise, I got the seal chrome from Flightsuit and not the dark brown so I can't compare the two colors accurately. The USWings I have was a good fit, but I did have to have the sleeve brought up about an inch or so. Very Temple of Doomish in a lot of details, it's a nice jacket thou.

Here's a pic, the Expo is in the middle, the USWings Goat is on the right (the darkest of the jackets) and a USWings Distressed Cow is on the left (the lightest color of the jackets).

Over a decade ago, I bought my first Indiana Jones jacket. It was marketed as the Official Indiana Jones jacket and had a label that only said "Indiana Jones." I wore that jacket faithfully for many years until the lining wore out. I had a local dry cleaner replace the lining and clean the jacket. Unfortunately, the cleaning removed the color from the jacket so it basically looked off white. The cleaner tried to "paint" the color back in, but it ended up looking like vinyl. It wasn't until I found this forum that I found out that my jacket was made by Cooper which was aquired by U.S. Wings.

I also did not realize that there were other sources for the Indy jacket. After spending some time on this site, I ended up buying a G&B dark brown goat Expo.

The "U.S. Wings" jacket was a predistressed cowhide so I can't compare the leather or color (which was similar to milk chocolate), but I can comment on the design. The Expo has a better fit because I could choose a size 40 versus a medium. The fitted jacket looks better, but does not give as much room for layering of other clothing. The U.S. Wings had a number of differences vs. the Expo. Some of these are: snaps on the storm flap, full-length zipper, and right-handed zipper. In some ways, I preferred this, but apparently they are not screen accurate. The Expo also adds the double underarm gussets which would mirror the stuntmans' jacket.

One thing I noticed about the U.S. Wings' collar, was that they did not lie the same. One collar would lie flat and the other would sit up higher. So it had an asymmetrical look. The Expo does not have this issue. It may be because the Expo has a layer of fabric between the two layers of collar leather. This seems to give the collar more structure.

Michaelson's comment reminded me about an issue I had with the sleeve length. When I first received the U.S. Wings jacket, I had the sleeves shortened to fit. Over the years, I noticed that the sleeves looked short on me. I don't know if the leather shrunk or if it was caused by the sleeves developing creases. Just an observation.

In a way I miss the U.S. Wings jacket because it was my first, but I find the Expo to be a much better jacket.

Axel

Minnesota Jones, I know this may be a hard question to answer, but which do you prefer the US Wings or the FS? I am in the market to get myself a new Indy jacket and I am trying to cover all my bases. So the more info I can gather the better. Thanks, Brett

If it was the "Lays" dilemma, you can only have one... I'd pick the FS Expo out of my 3 jackets. It's just that slick of a jacket. But I really like the ToD look of the USWings jackets. They have a slightly longer length, like ToD, the smaller pockets, like ToD. The collar is more LC thou. Another reason I'd pick my Expo is because I was out there in San Diego and got to visit the place and was fitted in person with Dave Marshall. So it's a "souvenier" of our roadtrip out to the QM last year (2003). But they're both military spec jackets, and tough as nails. So I'd say you have to consider price as a factor between the two, as well as USWings sizing vs FS Expo sizing, and remember too that the USWings is a heavier jacket, better for colder months than the FS is.

Thanks Minnesota, definately more food for thought. I'll weigh my options carefully. Brett

[Bogie1943
Archaeologist quote]The US Wings jacket have always been a kinda knock-off type jacket[/quote],
So is flightsuits, they knocked-off a Wested original without permission or licence from me. Maybe a beeter quality knock-off but still a knock-off.
Not wishing to starts an issue just putting your words into perspective.
Cheers
Peter

So is flightsuits, they knocked-off a Wested original without permission or licence from me. Maybe a beeter quality knock-off but still a knock-off

Right on, Peter!

I have often wondered "how" Flightsuits were able to copy Peter's original Raiders' jacket without his permission....I'm not trying to start an issue neither....I'm just imagining Peter's perspective and how he must feel about that....

But anyhow, to those of you who have the USWings Goatskin jackets, why is that leather "thicker" than the Flightsuits Expedition and the Wested Goatskin leathers?

In Kindest Regards,
Captain D

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Axel

Axel wrote:"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Axel

And an easy way to make money from someone elses design.
'Blues

I own a U.S. Wings VIP cowhide. Just days after ordering I looked around here and found that I would have rather ordered a Wested. When the jacket came I was still exited, the jacket was nice (the best jacket I have ever owned) but it was too big on me and I knew about all the inaccuracies. I eventually had the sleeves shorted and I just finished distressing it with very, very, fine sand paper- which turned out well. The jacket itself isn't made that well, there was seven places where the stiching needed fixing! The right armpit underneath wasn't connected. That was before any sanding. Now, today I noticed the linning is coming undone in the packet. I am saving up for a Wested, the Flightsuits is nice but not original is expensive. You're probably asking why I didn't return it. Well my Mom payed for about half of it for a present and she thougt I was happy, (which in some ways I am- I wear the jacket) and secondly the first time I put it on the darn U.S. Wings tag on the sleave broke off!
The hole was punched too close to the edge and it came off, and sending it back had a huge "restocking fee" and when tags are off it would be very difficult to return. So in answer to your question- go with neither Flightsuit, and definately not U.S. Wings- get a Wested! They work with you and provide a top quality, original jacket.

Peter, please check your Private Messages, I have sent you a message.

wested all the way

I don't mean to start any kind of flame war, this is just my opinion. People can choose to buy from any vendor that they wish. It is their money, not mine. I personally would never consider purchasing any Indiana Jones jacket from anyone else as long as Peter is still in business.

He made the original that was worn by Harrison Ford in the movies and the other vendors are just copying his design and charging more money for it. Wested's quality is very good and Peter doesn't gouge us on the price. It is extremely important to me that it is an original and not a copy.

If Peter set his price considerably higher than the other vendors and it was simply a financial decision, then I could understand someone buying another jacket if they could not afford a Wested. But, that is not the case due to Wested's pricing.

I also feel that I can not support someone that is blatantly ripping Peter off. He is like a friend to the Indiana Jones fans. Just ask any of the attendees of the London summit. I don't see anyone from those other companies posting on our forum. I haven't seen pictures of any of the CEOs of those other companies serving refreshments in their home after taking any of us on a tour of the shop. I haven't seen any of them post a happy new year greeting to all of us. Maybe they all did and I just missed it, but I don't recall seeing it.

Remember, it is your money and you can spend it however you see fit. I really don't care. But, for me, the vendor of choice in Indiana Jones jackets is a no-brainer. I want an original Wested, not an Indiana Jones wannabe. And, I really don't even care how nice a wannabe it may or may not be.

Very well put, Bufflehead.
'Blues

I "DEFINITELY" respect everyone's points and personal opinions...Bufflehead's post, above, is highly respected and applauded!

I, personally, have owned many Wested jackets and love Wested all round.' It is true....Wested is one of a kind, and we love and HIGHLY appreciate Peter's hard work, commitment, dedication, and kindness towards his customers. I have nothing but positive experiences when buying from Wested.... And, I would be MORE than happy to buy another Indy jacket from him in a heart-beat....no doubt whatsoever!!

But in addition, it was mentioned here at COW that it can be a good thing to shop around to all of the vendors to find quality jackets, especially our Indy jackets, that may suit different people.

Even though that I LOVE Wested, (as I have just mentioned above) I may be buying a Flightsuits simply because they are very screen-accurate right off the shelf without having to "special request" anything, they are durable, built to military standards, and made right here in the U.S. It's good to have choices when shopping around....just like buying a pair of pants or buying a car....That's why I feel that it is good to shop around to all of the different vendors.

The only thing that disturbs me is that, yes, I do like what I see produced from Flightsuits, but it does kinda bother me that they may be producing their Indy jackets without legal consent from the original designer and manufacturer....which is Wested Leather.

I honestly hope that I am not adding "wood to the fire," those are just my personal experiences and feelings....

In Kindest Regards to everyone,
Captain D

Okay people... I've seen some beautiful Westeds myself. I hope to have one as well one day. But can we please keep this thread "on track?" The question was comparing US Wing's Goatskin Jacket to Flightsuit's Goatskin Jacket. There's enough business in this hobby to support the 3 manufacturers of Indy Jackets (4 if you count Disney). And we are all aware of the fans of Wested, as well as fans of the Expo. This thread is not about Wested and any further "wood on the fire" will result in warnings potentially being sent and locking someone's thread down that had a legitimate question.

Minnesota (Can I call you Minny?), don't forget about U.S. Authentic's Indy jacket. Funny, that I haven't seen any posts from site members who have one of these.

Axel

Sorry MJ. I really didn't mean to get anyone's knickers in a twist. I guess when it comes to Indy Jackets, I really have a one track mind. Since the person asking about the jackets just recently joined and only had 5 posts, I just wanted him to know about the Wested option. I didn't want him to buy something else and regret it later, if he then found out that he wanted a Wested.

Ya'll can go back to talking about those other jackets, now.

Yes, by all means go back to the topic at hand....

Right after I mention that the owner and operator of Wested leather, and orignial manufacturer of the Indy jacket actually gave me a ride to the train station when I came to visit him, even though doing so caused him to miss an exciting portion of the England- Switzerland match in the Euro Cup.

I have, as of yet, received no ride offers from the owners of FS and US Wings, but I am easily available should they like to contact me.


- sorry MJ, couldn't resist

Axel wrote:Minnesota (Can I call you Minny?)
Axel

No. Makes me think of Minny Mouse.

And I'm sure the person puting out the question had been on the main site prior to registering so Wested was out there for a choice. And don't get me wrong, Peter's a great guy and I can't wait to meet him myself one day. But a lot of people like the Sarge too and Dave Marshall gave me and some gearheads a personnal guided tour of Flightsuits and a VIP treatment all around. I have yet to meet a vendor in person that wasn't a great person as well. That's a great thing in this hobby. Joe Jr and Joe Sr at Peter Brothers were incredible when I was there. Graham and Kevin at Optimo were tops. Dave Marshall was a class act. Lee Keppler is a hoot. And David Morgan... I just wish I had more time to spend with him when I was there. So I'm not questioning the personality of Peter. We just have WAY TOO MANY threads in Jackets get off track with the old Wested vs Flightsuits, or Flightsuits vs Wested. It doesn't matter to me who likes what and what is the best. I just ask for these threads to stay on topic to help out the people asking a question. I hate playing the tough guy (it's not my style), but one more "Jacket Wars" style off topic post in this thread and it's locked down. Sorry guys.

Yes, I agree that we gearheads can be pretty emotional about our jackets, especially our jacket vendors, . I too apologize if I had stepped on anyone's toes as well....

Kindest Regards,
Captain D

Here's my experience with US Wings and FS:

Though not directly US Wings, my first Indy jacket was from the Paramount catalogue in 1989. It was made by Cooper and I believe by reading info on the main site that they are now one and the same. The fit wasn't perfect, but at the time I didn't care because I had an Indy jacket. That's all that mattered. The color faded tremendously, as mentioned above. But the jacket latest many years of abuse and travels to foreign countries with no damage to the leather or lining itself. It was one tough jacket.

When I outgrew my first one, it was many years before I found another. My sister worked at Disneyland and when she told me about the ride opening and the jackets, I was very excited. I got there as soon as I could and bought my second Indy jacket. I'm going on a little assumption here that since the label in the jacket was the same as on my first jacket and both are the same label as the Cooper, that my second jacket from Disney was a Cooper as well. The leather was almost like suede and was very stiff. The grain didn't match anywhere on the jacket, but again I didn't care because it was an Indy jacket.

I then found IndyFan, Indy Diggs, and then Indy Gear. I bought a Wested and then eventually an FS jacket.

Here are the differences that I've noticed (but take into consideration that the current offerings from US Wings may have improved). The US Wings jackets I owned didn't fit exactly right. I was limited in choice to S, M, L, XL. The FS jacket I have happens to fit better than any other jacket I've owned. The side strap configuration on the US Wings (Cooper) is backwards. The zipper pull is on the wrong side, but not really a big deal to some. The sleeve openings (at the wrist) on the US Wings are too large. This is mostly coming from memory because it's been awhile since I've had one in my possession. However, I never had a problem with leather tearing or stitching coming unravelled. They are well built jackets.

I don't think there is anything that I can add about the FS that hasn't already been said. In my opinion, it's more screen accurate and just has that certain Indy look to it. There is no mismatch in leather grain, and the leather itself is soft and durable. The fit is better because you have more options to choose from. At least for me it was.

Shishak wrote: The zipper pull is on the wrong side, but not really a big deal to some.

This confused me a little bit. Which side is the zipper on? I didn't know if you meant it was on the wrong side for screen accuaracy or if it was on the wrong side for the way jackets are in the U.S.

Bufflehead,

The movie jackets had the zipper pulls on the left side. The U.S. Wings' jackets have the zipper pulls on the right side as is customary here in the U.S.

Axel

Axel wrote:Bufflehead,

The movie jackets had the zipper pulls on the left side. The U.S. Wings' jackets have the zipper pulls on the right side as is customary here in the U.S.

Axel

Yes, since the Indy Jacket was "British" in design, the zipper pull was on the left (port) side of the zipper. Most men's jackets in the U.S. have the pull on the right (starboard) side. So US Wings' jacket with the zipper pull on the right (starboard) side, being correct for American Men Jackets, is the wrong side for "Indy's" jacket.

Thanks MJ. I already knew that about the movie jackets, but it doesn't hurt repeating for someone that may not know. I just wasn't sure about what he meant by the "wrong side". It would depend on if he was referring to "wrong side" for an american or "wrong side" for movie screen accuracy.

When I ordered my jacket, I deliberated considerably over this point. I really wanted to keep my jacket as screen accurate as possible. But, as Mrs. Bufflehead will quickly point out, I don't like change. I didn't think that I would ever like the jacket having the zipper on the opposite side as all of my other jackets. In the end, I had the zipper put on the "american side".

Whenever I order another jacket, this will again be a point that I will have to consider. Since I have had an Indy jacket for a while now, I have realized that I almost never wear the jacket zipped up anyway. As far as I can remember, Indy didn't zip his jacket in very many scenes, if any at all. I can't think of one off the top of my head.

I think that the Indy jacket doesn't look that great when zipped up. It looks really good when it is left unzipped. It is just my opinion. The only reason for me to zip it up would be if it was really cold. In that case I am going to forego the Indy jacket and put on a real winter coat.

Bufflehead Jones wrote:

The only reason for me to zip it up would be if it was really cold. In that case I am going to forego the Indy jacket and put on a real winter coat.

I guess I'm on the opposite end of this. I plan to wear my G&B goat as much as I can this winter. I am layering it with a down vest on colder days. I will pair it up with my Real McCoy's B-2 hat when it gets here. Of course, on snowy days I will break out the down parka.

It took me a while to get used to the left-handed zipper. I would unzip and pull to the right and it wouldn't come apart. I now either pull to the left or unzip with my left hand. I don't consider the left-handed zipper a plus, but it is screen accurate.

Axel

The best quality Indy jacket on the market today is still a Flight Suits Expedition period. I'm not taking anything but quality into account when I make that statement (customer service and one's reasons for choosing one jacket over the others are topics for other threads). The first Indy jacket that I purchased (beyond a Cooper in 1990) was from US Wings. It was made of stiff goatskin and had a lining that was unwearable. I had to have the lining replaced. I still never really liked the jacket. I believe that since then they have gone to all cotton linings (which is a good thing) and I remember Indydog and Michaelson raving about a really nice goatskin that they had. Who knows if they still have that type of goatskin. I did see a US Wings black cowhide Indy jacket once that had a really nice hide, I thought. Since this thread didn't ask about Wested (I've owned three), I'll only add that I personally liked the way their jackets felt over the US Wings. I don't think that they'd hold up to abuse as well as a Wings jacket though (indeed I've seen the stitching on one of Sergie's Westeds start to go). I can sum up the FS Expedition by saying that it "feels" like an Indy Jacket to me (lambskin aside, which is a "wuss" skin no matter how you look at it. I own one and like it for qualities that it posses, but I still don't think of it as a real Indy jacket). My goatskin Expeditions are tough and elegant at the same time. I also feel that they'll be around longer than I will. My favorite Indy Jacket is my russet goatskin Expedition. Collecting Indy gear has been a blast for me. I found that when all was said and done the thrill of the hobby for me came from the chase involved. I've since sold off most of my collection. The pieces that I didn't sell off were the ones that I could wear in everyday life and not feel silly about while I was wearing them. My 2 pair of Alden 405 boots and my 4 Expedition jackets are all I really have left. I doubt that I'll ever get rid of them. Ironically those are the only Indy pieces that I believe are up to the challenge of being around forever. Cheers

Is the russet goatskin still available from FS, Rundquist? Regards. Michaelson

I’m sure Rundquist can speak for himself, and it’s nice to see him post here again since I always took interest in the items he chose to purchase and in fact did so with several items I chose for myself upon hearing his remarks on them, but my last attempt at ordering one is that I was told since it’s a different hide other than the standard Dark Seal Goat or Dark Seal Lamb offered, it is now considered a custom jacket, and thus not offered at this time. Just one of the ‘issues’ I currently have with G&B’s current policy. I’d certainly wouldn’t mind being told I was wrong!

I would imagine that you could get the jacket in some form of a russet hide today. This was a special chrome tanned goatskin that they had because they had a delay in getting their vegetable tanned goatskin which they use for their historical A-2's. I would imagine that they might make you jump through some hoops to get one made today. From what I hear, you have to talk to the "right people" at Flight Suits today to get special order items. It seems that not all of their sales reps are properly informed. Cheers









PS- these pics were taken when the jacket was 2 days old. It's realy looking good these days.

Adam, that's STILL one of the sharpest looking jackets I've seen come out of the FS shop to date. I'm not surprised it's still in your stable. High regards. Michaelson

Indeed! Note it also has the OD stiching that goes good with the russet color hide.

-Sergei

Just one more comment about the zipper pull. I actually prefer the pull on the left side on my Indy jackets. Nothing annoys me more than walking around and hearing the CLANK-CLANK-CLANK of the zipper pull (well, some things annoy me more than that, but this is up there). With the pull on the left, it sits behind the storm flap and doesn't make any noise. Note that I'm talking about walking around with the jacket unzipped.

Shishak,

That's an interesting observation. I'll have to make note of that when I wear my Expo versus one of my right-handed zipper jackets.

I now have a more positive opinion of the left-handed zipper.

Axel

Shishak wrote:Just one more comment about the zipper pull. I actually prefer the pull on the left side on my Indy jackets. Nothing annoys me more than walking around and hearing the CLANK-CLANK-CLANK of the zipper pull (well, some things annoy me more than that, but this is up there). With the pull on the left, it sits behind the storm flap and doesn't make any noise. Note that I'm talking about walking around with the jacket unzipped.

Yes yes....when I put my order in I was planning on having the americanized zip put on, but forgot. Shortly after I realized this same fact about the pull rattling around, and am glad I left the english version alone. I own 2 other leather jackets (none of indy interest) with no storm flap and the zippers annoy the $#*^ outta me. I'm quite happy that my newest and probably best quality jacket will come without this annoyance.

Speaking of Flightsuits........My Dark-Brown Goatskin has finally arrived

Captain D wrote:Speaking of Flightsuits........My Dark-Brown Goatskin has finally arrived

And...?

Sergei wrote:

Captain D wrote:Speaking of Flightsuits........My Dark-Brown Goatskin has finally arrived

And...?

And....She is a beauty, well made, great color, and perfect fit! This jacket is well worth the money. This jacket is here to stay....

High compliments to Flightsuits!

Kind Regards,
Captain D

Redinight wrote:I own a U.S. Wings VIP cowhide. You're probably asking why I didn't return it. Well my Mom payed for about half of it for a present and she thougt I was happy, (which in some ways I am- I wear the jacket) and secondly the first time I put it on the darn U.S. Wings tag on the sleave broke off!
The hole was punched too close to the edge and it came off, and sending it back had a huge "restocking fee" and when tags are off it would be very difficult to return. So in answer to your question- go with neither Flightsuit, and definately not U.S. Wings- get a Wested! They work with you and provide a top quality, original jacket.

I have a US Wings A2 in HH. I went with a size 44 but decided I should have gotten a #42. It was after their 14 day or whatever return period. I guess it was my fault. They didn't want to work with me on a return. I would never buy from them again.

Slightly off topic here, but I own a US Wings Flying Tigers Horsehide A2. I also now own a Wested (thanks Peter!!) and a Real McCoys B3 (thanks Fedora!). I have to say that I really like all three. I would definitely buy any Indy Jackets from Peter, but the US Wings A2 is an excellent jacket. It is a perfect fit, durable, comfortable and well made. I just wanted to mention this because I wanted y'all to know that there are some of us who have had good experiences with US Wings. My A2 is about 4 years old and I wouldn't trade it!


........Bruce