Club Obi Wan

I have a question about the actual crack of the whip. I know the crack is due to breaking the sound barrier, but what I'm curious to know is how the crack is heard from the perspective of the whip cracker him/herself. I've been getting better at cracking my whip and I've noticed that it doesn't seem to crack as loudly to my ears as maybe to those farther away from me.

To illustrate what I mean, I was cracking yesterday and I could tell from the echos bouncing through distant trees that many of the cracks seemed much louder than I thought they were! Does being at the epicentre of the crack have anything to due with that, being as the crack is travelling away from you as you crack the whip? I would think that it'd be loudest to the fellow cracking the whip. I even tried aiming my cracks at an open field, but the cracks directed at the forrest allowed me to hear the intensity of most of my cracks.

I can't explain it, really. My experience in shooting firearms tells me I've got good reason to be wearing hearing protection (there's no denying hearing that bang!). But for some reason it feels as if my whip cracks are louder to everyone else but me. Maybe I'm ON crack?!

bink

Hmm, I've been wondering about this myself. I don't have a whip yet, but I was wondering if anyone who does uses ear protection.

binkmeisterRick wrote: Does being at the epicentre of the crack have anything to due with that, being as the crack is travelling away from you as you crack the whip?
bink

That sounds like a reasonable theory Bink. Plus, when you are firing a gun the bullet breaks the sound barrier as the bullet is leaving the muzzle, I think, so it would be a lot closer to the person firing the gun than a whip which does not break the sound barrier until the velocity/momentum is carried all the way through the end of the whip, I think, which in most cases is going to be much farther from the person cracking the whip.Maybe.

Then again Bink, maybe it's just the cotton balls I put in your ears so I can easily sneak up on you and grab your new Adventurebilt F&G.Doh, was that out loud?

ShanghaiJack wrote:Then again Bink, maybe it's just the cotton balls I put in your ears so I can easily sneak up on you and grab your new Adventurebilt F&G.Doh, was that out loud?

Why do you think I've been practicing my whip skills so much lately, Shanghai?

It makes sense that you'd hear a gun shot differently than a whip crack because of when and where the sound barrier is broken, but I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this, or if there is any scientific backing to my quiery?

bink

This is my theory;
The pop you hear is air rushing back into the vacuum created by supersonic speed, basically air molecules "catching up" into the direction of the crack. This initial force in one direction would then make the crack sound louder in that direction as there is more momentum than when the molecules "rock back" to the direction you are standing.
To sum it up; You can scream really loud into a persons ear without damaging your own hearing, but that person would pick up a whip and beat you with it since you now have caused him tinitus.

Interesting posts. I've found a few interesting sites on the cracking sound, but nothing on your question. I'll let you know in case I dig something up.

Regards,
Swindiana

If you crack whip in an industrial park, or at the base of a cliff, it does echo back louder than you normally hear it yourself. I'm sure it's because the wave is moving away from you.

I've cracked a whip in a very large (dry) stormdrain with solid walls at either end. The crack seemed normal at the source, but the first echo in front seemed like a loud gunshot and so did the second behind me.

For an additional experiment, learn a crack where it cracks behind you or right along side, ie a reverse circus or better still, the coachmans crack.
Your ears will be ringing it you do it right.

binkmeisterRick wrote:Why do you think I've been practicing my whip skills so much lately, Shanghai?
bink

Um, you knew that I was trying to break in my new Wested?

I wonder if the echoes could also increase the reverberation of the initial crack and therefore also increase the decibel level?

Well, yeah. The same way that the body of a guitar works to amplify the sound of its strings, instead of just going pling to rather ploing.

Regards,
Swindiana

Your whip goes "ploing?" Must be one of those cheap e-bay whips.

You know, I even tried cracking towards the side of the garage to see if the sound would bounce back louder from that close a proximity. The "loudest" cracks were still from echos off the forrest... And Dalex, I am trying to learn the reverse circus or reverse coachmans crack but haven't gotten it down yet. I'm only now getting the forwad circus crack down without having to use too much force.

That being said, the Winrich IOAB whip DOES crack like a cannon! I've managed the loudest cracks with it yet just the other day and it sounded just as impressive as the echo of my Winchester 30/30! No wonder those geese flying overhead started flying faster!

bink

I've cracked on my roofdeck and heard it echo back from buildings a block away. If someone else is on the roof with me, they say it is enormously loud. It doesn't seem so loud to me.

Great artcile, Scandinavia! You know, Hemingway, we ought to get together for a bit of whip cracking so we can hear what the whip actually sounds like! Some of the best cracks I got echoed off country buildings a good distance away. I swear omeone was probably thinking I had a rifle with me.

bink

You know, Hemingway, we ought to get together for a bit of whip cracking so we can hear what the whip actually sounds like! Some of the best cracks I got echoed off country buildings a good distance away. I swear omeone was probably thinking I had a rifle with me.

We could stand at either end of a football stadium and see who can echo the loudest!
One day, we'll have to attend a summit somewhere; our paths are bound to cross!

Snakewhip_Sable wrote: I'm sure it's because the wave is moving away from you.

I would agree with that. In fact, I challenge you to an experiment. Have an assistant stand about 12 to 15 feet from you & crack the whip toward the other.

This will prove the soundwave moves away from you. Now to further the proof, crack in the opposite direction from the assistant.

Have the whip crack at approximately the same distance away from the other. If the whip cracked 5 to 10 feet away in the first basis with the soundwave travelling towards the 2nd person, then crack the whip 5 to 10 feet away from the other person but with the wave travelling away.

Another thing that helps sound to travel is wind. If the wind is out of the north, sound carries easier with the wind than against. You will hear sounds from the north easier. If wind is from the south, sounds carry easier from the south. Humidity and temperature probably also carry a variable.

binkmeisterRick wrote:
I am trying to learn the reverse circus or reverse coachmans crack but haven't gotten it down yet.

The way I teach a student is by turning the body and using clock positions as points of reference. To do a reverse circus begin with this point of reference from what you already know. As you do your normal circus crack, you are aiming at 12 o'clock. Now you can dio it either of two ways really and its best to learn both anyway. Keep your body in the same position facing as you did while aiming at the 12 oclock,

Do the 12 oclock, then go back a few degrees to the left, call that 11 oclock. Then move your aim to the left some more to 10 oclock. Do a few cracks in each degree/clock position and become comfortable with cracking across your body until you get all the way to 9 oclock, straight across your body. That's really not all that difficult. Work your way back towards 12 oclock. Now begin going to the right. This is where it gets a little more difficult, but not really. Not until you get past 2 oclock. Go to 1 oclock, then 2 oclock. Become comfortable at each position and angle. Now here's the tricky part, but not so bad. When you get to the final 3 oclock position to do the whip across your body, that means you need to bring the whip up over in front of you instead of behind you over your shoulder. Now I recommend this to people and by changing back and forth between 2 oclock and three olcocck, that you must switch bringing the whip over your shoulder to in front of your body. Practice alternating between 2 and 3 oclock. You will see what I mean.

Now to carry the accomplished crack another step further and really the point of the whole matter is to turn it into a Slow Figure 8 where you follow thru from forward to reverse circus cracks. To get there from learning the reverse crack at 3 oclock do a 9 oclock and 3 oclock by following thru from each crack to the other. It's a great combination whipcrack called the Figure 8, or Slow Figure 8.

Once you have the 3 olcock to 9 oclock moves going well, turn your body as normal, crack the 12 oclock as you normally do, then do the 6 oclock behind yoiu. That's where it gets a little tougher. Maybe work on it by gradually truning your body from doing the 9 & 3 position until you can get it 12 & 6. That would be going from 10 & 4, then 11 & 5 and then finally 12 & 6 oclock positions.

Anyone schooled in martial arts knows there are forms to learn and memorize. It's like tai chi.... do it slowly at first to get the position correct and later add the zings and pops.


I hope that you get it. Ask any question on whipcracking at any time.

And by the way, there really is no "reverse" coachman's crack. I've never seen anyone do it beside myself and I have done it with both hands doing 2 whips together going from the regular fwd coachman's to a reverse coachman's.

My brain hurts!!!! What time is it again? I'll have to read that over one step at a time... that's why I hope to meet up with a bunch of whip entusiasts someday -- I learn better in person and can have help figuring it out as I go along. I like the idea of the sound experiment. I'll have to see if I can scare up some assistants!

bink

I'm at 1791893,7294196 GPS coordinate wise. I'll help out. Just let me know when you shoot that thing off and I'll try my 9 footer your way.

Regards,
Swindiana

Careful! Don't get too close to me or I might hit you with my whip!

bink

Robert nice description. This is excellent.

Dalexs was refering to the "coachman's crack", which when done properly cracks right at your ear.

or better still, the coachmans crack

Robert, could you describe that crack? BTW, people beware, this is a dangerous crack since it cracks so close to your head.

Yeah... then I have no idea what crack I was trying for.... maybe a wise crack? I feel like I'm still learnin' which end of the whip to crack!

bink

I understand about "seeing" things when learning Bink. I'm sight minded as well and so when I do describe in words I do my best to paint a picture, thus the CLock References.

So going back to the discussion you want to get the reverse circus or reverse coachman's crack. Now I am not sure if you were thinking that's one in the same or that you'd like me to describe the Reverse Coachman.

Thanks Sergei on the compliment. I did my best to paint a picture.

Now to explain the coachman's crack. I see people do this and notice right away that the majority think they are doing it when they are not. It's kind of like a delayed circus crack.

Start with the whip coming back over your shoulder as you do your normal circus crack. Now wait.... really wait.... really really wait.

Now you look for this: the tail of the whip will be pointing straight up in the air. It takes the whip a long time for the tail to go around that far and most people will not be patient enough to wait that long. Doing the normal circus crack only requires you to wait for the tail of the whip to be directly behind you before throwing it forward. Maybe almost touching the ground even. Thats the circus crack. Now the coachman's you really have to get the whip to go back.

Let's paint a picture and get the clock out again, but this time we're in the vertical plane. (Basic geometry required... hope your brain doesn't hurt too much on this one)

When you draw the whip back over the shoulder (12 oclock high) and go vack to the rear 3 oclock, the ground 6 oclock, coming under now 6 oclock (tail should be pointing straight down at the ground), coming back up, tail pointing straight ahead 9 oclock, then finally getting to 12 oclock again. Whew... like I said a long time and must be patient. You have to really learn to zing the whip back and give it some boost going back in order to 1 1/2 revolutions.
Please wear a your fed or some hat on this one. THe whip comes very close to your head - protect your ears. Wear ear protection too. Ideally you do want the whip to crack behind your head and maybe even at shoulder level. I can crack the whip almost at my waist. That's pushing the envelope. I've seen Sebastian crack the coachman and have the whip take a bandana out of his back pocket. That's pretty low and back there guys. The whip should not crack in front of you. Not the least bit.
So put ona hat, get some goggles and ear protection. The goggles are to protect your eyes as you will see the whip is very very close to the head.


As I said a lot of cracks are best taught in person. Mistakes can be quickly caught and corrected if one is willing to learn.

It is difficult to learn out of a book or even a tape, but tapes do help a lot if careful study is done and the teacher explains well enough.

Ask any questions on whipcracking or whipmaking at any time.

Robert? could you repeat that again?

,

Just Kidding, Merry Christmas everyone.







Jim J.

Woah! Sounds like a difficult crack to get right... definately not going to be a one time shot. I'll have to rent some body armor and take a few shots at that. You lay the whip out behind you first, right, like you're doing a regular, good ol' circus crack, and it comes out to your front, up, back, down, and makes half of another revolution... but how does it crack behind you? I'm thinking I'm gonna end up turning this into a circus crack but with an extra revolution!

Is it like you want to aim the crack towards your heels almost? Just behind you? Basically... am I trying to crack this downwards but generally away from my rear end? lol

I want to make sure I understand this before I go out and try it. A video would be helpful, but I'm not counting on that.

By the way, speaking of videos, Sergei, I watched Pyroxene's 30min video of the QM '03. When it got to your bit of whipcracking instruction (the same as posted in the "Who's Got Whip Crackin' Pictures?" thread) I payed close attention, and I finally can do a figure eight. So I just wanted to say thank you for showing the attendees how to perform it, and thanks to Pyro for videotaping it - it helped millions. Now I just have to get your "pepper" down without hitting my calves and neck. Also I think we could play "Crazy Eights" at the next QM. The winner is the person who can get out the most Figure 8's without missing a crack.

In Christ,
Shane

PS - Robert - thank you for further explanation of the Figure 8. That did help to reinforce the routine!

Hi All

I recently made this 16ft, 20plait bullwhip for a customer, http://www.whipmaker.com.au/images/Bull12.jpg and I found cracking it didn't seem very loud out in the paddock, compared to an 8footer. So I went to the local basketball stadium (which had concrete walls) and cracked it and I nearly hit the roof. The noise kept bouncing off all four walls for about 10 to 15 seconds. The 8footer wasn't nearly as impressive. I came to the conclusion that the 16footer was louder but because it was cracking so far out it didn't sound like it when I was outside. I reccomend finding somewhere to crack your whip with concrete walls all around you, its an experience you'll never forget.

Kind Regards from Tasmania

Simon Martin
http://www.whipmaker.com.au

Thanks for the input, Simon! I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the crack is louder as it travels away from you. And Robert, I am going to print these out and try them at some point! I agree that it's best to learn with an experienced whip handler. I'd love to correct my mistakes as I learn, you know? So... if you're ever in Indiana...

bink

Have to agree with Robert. The "Coachman's Crack" is not for the faint of heart. Because you are allowing the thong to travel back past your arm, body, head, and then reversing the whole process so that the whip cracks behind you, there are several things that can and do go wrong. Tangles to kisses on the back and legs to a nasty stripe across the back and head if you're not careful.

I would recommend that you get Mike Murphy's Basic Whipcracking Techniques video or DVD. It shows how to do the basic cracks by breaking them down into parts and then at speed. It's only about $20.00 and well worth the money. Mike shows how to do the cattleman's, the fig 8's, the flick, the volleys and the coachman's, plus several others.

And get with some other crackers. It doesn't matter if they are COW members or not. Since crackers are so few and far between, they are happy to find smeone who shares their passion and excitement for the sport. Check out the Whip Enthusiasts locator board and send the members that are close an email. You might be surprised.

Get the videos, get connected, and keep practicing.

Robert, did you ever do any more on that whip cracking video you were talking about making?

Jerry

Trust me, I think I'm gonna wait to get on that crack. Do you have the url for the Whip Enthusiasts locator board handy by chance?

bink

binkmeisterRick wrote: if you're ever in Indiana...

The last time I was in Indiana was for a business trip. I flew into Indianapolis and drove north to South Bend to visit the South Bend Lathe Corporation and tour their manufacturing facility. It's quite a historic building really. It's the old Studebaker facility and quite big... if I remember correctly it was about 500,000 sq feet facility. I bet the old Packards were built there too. I loved those old 1930s Packards. A real Indy car!

Practice practice practice... perfect practice makes perfect.

Here it is:

http://whip.know-where.com/whip/

Jerry

Robert, you practically drove right by me!!! Yep, there's some good classic auto manufacturing in Indiana. If you ever get to Auburn, Indiana, stop by the Auburn-Dousenburg museum and check out the beautiful cars they used to make there! You know the term "it's a doosy!" actually comes from the Dousenburg automobile since it was quite the posh car in its day!

And thanks for the link, Jerry! I'll give it a look! And yes, guys, practce does make perfect, which is why I'm finally getting the forward circus crack (crack number 1) down pat!

bink

binkmeisterRick wrote:Trust me, I think I'm gonna wait to get on that crack.

I think I'll do the same... I'll just keep working at that figure eight, before I start to look like I'm collecting Picasso Gear.

In Christ,
Shane

I managed a coachman's crack once when I was just getting started, but it was in no way intentional. I was doing a circus crack, but put a bit more force into the throw than I should have, and waited a bit long in the throw.

The whip cracked beatifully, but scared the bejeezus out of me because it wasn't in front of me like I was expecting.

I was told it looked good though. ;-)

I haven't tried it since.

I think I'll wait until my new 8' Strain "Lone Star" gets here, (Hopefully mid next week! Santa's comin' early this year!)

thefish wrote:...
I think I'll wait until my new 8' Strain "Lone Star" gets here, (Hopefully mid next week! Santa's comin' early this year!)

thefish,
Those "Lone Stars" are my absolutle favorite. This is my pair:



-Sergei

Beee-youuuu-teeee-ful, Sergei.

Thanks for sharing the pic.

Six footers? Whiskey with Natural Tan on the knots?

Mine will be an 8 foot in brandy with red accents.

Joe was saying that the brandy and the red finished wonderfully.

Anxiously awaiting. ;-)

-Dan