Club Obi Wan

I find it confusing. I have worn a jacket in real heavy rain before - I was virtually swimming home from uni one day to my flat which is about 1/2 an hour walk or 40 minute swim (swimming up hill is harder obviously ).

Anyway I was wearing a distressed Wested lamb and lo and behold no color ran at all. Not a sausage... err cutlet...

However, same story a different time in an undistressed goatskin Wested and upon getting home and taking the jacket off my white T-shirt is now 'hint-of Wested' ... actually when I say hint its about as subtle as being hit over the head with a shopping kart - the darn thing was mahogony brown.

So is there a formula for calculating what hide bleeds? What are the variables influencing it? Preventitive steps?

Pretty much depends on how it was tanned, Ken. Some tanneries have a bettern dye retention sealent in their final product than others. You really don't know until you've been caught in a gully washer in a jacket that has had no form of water resistant treatment applied. I've read the same stories you have, and it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, and the best you can do is to make sure you've put a good treatment on your jacket at the beginning of each 'season', and after after soaking (after your jacket completely air dries). Not much more you can do. There are industry standards regarding the tanning process that I really can NOT remember regarding things like chrome salts that hold the dyes better. I do know it's different from company to company. I do know that just about every hide reaches a saturation point that the dye can, and will, suddenly release, as you've discovered. It's just what that particular batch of hides level is that your jacket was made from. Lambskin seems to release the fastest, with horsehide and cowhide less like to release simply due to the water resistancy of the hide itself. Cowhide falls between the two. Regards. Michaelson

Wow... my mind boggles at how you know all this. Would I be right in thinking then that if a jacket bleeds, it will only bleed to a certain point and then not bleed anymore? So for example if you are caught in a rain storm it will bleed significantly, then less in the next rain storm and not at all in subsequent ones?

Ken

Wow... my mind boggles at how you know all this.

I was thinking the same thing, Ken!
I guess that's why Michaelson is now a 'Knower of Things'... how apt.

Sounds like he sits atop a hill somewhere wrapped in his Wested, fedora low over his eyes while lone pilgrims climb to partake in his wisdom.

Indiana Ken wrote:...Anyway I was wearing a distressed Wested lamb and lo and behold no color ran at all. Not a sausage... err cutlet...

However, same story a different time in an undistressed goatskin Wested and upon getting home and taking the jacket off my white T-shirt is now 'hint-of Wested' ... actually when I say hint its about as subtle as being hit over the head with a shopping kart - the darn thing was mahogony brown.

So is there a formula for calculating what hide bleeds? What are the variables influencing it? Preventitive steps?

Sometimes the nose knows since I’ve known a person or two through the years that have purchased what was described to me as double-dyed leather jackets which is a process that is used to obtain quick weathering results where that jacket would just reek of being over-saturated in unpleasant smelling dye. I heard it was mostly where a darker pigment coat is sprayed onto the surface of the protective top layer, and, the leather that lay just underneath. So that is really interesting that you had this happen with your Wested. It seems especially unusual for goatskin since it’s my understanding that is one reason it was chosen as being the most suitable hide for the Navy G-1. I’ve owned MANY leather jackets in many different hides (albeit not many lambskins) and have never really given it a thought about wearing any of them in rain, sleet, or snow and have never experienced what you have.

On non-leather clothing, that over-dyed smell is something akin to what you may (or may not) notice on black dyed jeans, like Levi’s, that have gone through a pigment, dry-drumming process.

Would the fact that the one that didn't bleed was distressed, and the one that bleed was un-distressed, make a difference? When you distressed the lamb, did you remove some of the color? I know when I distressed my authentic goat, I removed a lot of the color. This would obviously reduce the likelihood of it bleeding, since less color would equal less bleeding. If that is the case, then it makes a strong case for artificial distressing.

Since I got my goat jacket I think I've become a god of thunder and rain or something, just thinking about how many times I've gotten caught in a downpour. I've never had any trouble with bleeding though, maybe because I treated it before my first wear and then one more time a while after the first ever soaking? Interesting, and I have yet to see any bleeding though I have seen some shine go away on it.

Regards,
Swindiana

Band Director Jones wrote:Would the fact that the one that didn't bleed was distressed, and the one that bleed was un-distressed, make a difference? When you distressed the lamb, did you remove some of the color? I know when I distressed my authentic goat, I removed a lot of the color. This would obviously reduce the likelihood of it bleeding, since less color would equal less bleeding. If that is the case, then it makes a strong case for artificial distressing.

Thats what I was thinking, as in distressing you have removed soem of the dye. I also had athe experience with my firts ever lambskin (dark brown) that after distressing it, I got caught in the rain and this actually un-distressed it a little and put some of the color back!

Ken

Distressing only 'cracks' the surface that is the protective sealant to the underlying dye, so yes, a distressed jacket has a much better chance to release dye, as the fibers are now open to the air, and any dye suspended there has a chance to leech out when the leather gets soaked. What you saw your jacket do, Ken, is to release the dye from the suspended areas, and be redistributed through the areas that you had removed more of the protective surface. There seems to be a point where the dye 'releases' when soaked, but it seems to differ with each jacket and type hide the dye is in.

Oh, I've learned quite a bit from past years research when the Expedition was in process, and we have 3 tanneries here where I live, so I have had a source of information for these type questions for quite a number of years. _ is the real expert, though. I hope he passes through and reposts his studies on this question. (not unlike Ravenwood, don't you know. )

Regards. Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:What you saw your jacket do, Ken, is to release the dye from the suspended areas, and be redistributed through the areas that you had removed more of the protective surface.

Very interesting. The irony is it totally reversed all my hard distressing efforts.

Ken

Yep. That's another reason why I've preached natural aging through regular use. The dye and stress signs of a jacket placed from daily wear, right from new condition are natural and specific to the user. Artifically distressed items never stay the same when put in actual use. Sorry. Regards. Michaelson

What makes leather bleed??

Poke it with a sharp stick.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. 8-[

You didn't REALLY post what I just read...did you MJ? Regards. Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Yep. That's another reason why I've preached natural aging through regular use. The dye and stress signs of a jacket placed from daily wear, right from new condition are natural and specific to the user. Artifically distressed items never stay the same when put in actual use. Sorry. Regards. Michaelson

Curses... why do the good guys always win in the end. Being evil is so much more fun

Ken