Club Obi Wan

I understand if you've paid $400 for a perfect braid of leather shipped halfway around the world that you wouldn't want to ruin it, but shouldn't your whip be more than a decoration? That's a LOT of dough to dish out for an ornament.

I notice a lot of you won't crack whip unless you're standing on anything but soft, lush grass or a field of pillows. You remember that nutty guy with the field of pillows, right? If you build it, they will sleep? that guy? anyway...

Look: no lush grass- it's a dirt road.



Is it really going to hurt the leather if you use it in an area that's not grassy, or am I talking heresy here? Leather's tough, right? Are these fancy whips super fragile or something?

What about doing wraps and stuff? Does no one try to snag tree branches or railing on moving train cars or arms of giant statues inside temples or anything?

Though trying to swing on your whip is CRAZY, I'll admit - that'll just snap it in two even if you're a skinny guy. That's why I have a grappling hook and 20 foot climbing rope.

Be gentle with him, folks. He knows not what he asks.... Regards. Michaelson

"He's a witch!!!! Burn 'im!!!"

"How do you know he's a witch?"

"He turned me into a newt!"

Regards. Michaelson

Heresy. Gotcha.

Lemme have it then. But explain WHY it's heresy without getting P.O'd, eh?

I have a cheap 10 ft Mexican leather bullwhip and I use it in my parking lot, on pavement - that hasn't damaged it in the least. This is why I ask.

Cowboys, using your reference, use cowhide stock whips that are tough, but still destructable, and they make them themselves once they've worn one out from daily use. I know a man whose family has owned a ranch in southern Florida, and they have made their own stock whips for 4 generations. Considering you're paying several HUNDRED dollars for one of the 'roo whips, they're not exactly covered by a warranty, especially when you're using them in a way or area that will indeed destroy the leather if dragged through gravel or dirt. Even dirt, if not cleaned out of a whip on a regular basis, will eventually destroy a whip from the inside out. Remember, to create the crack, you're moving the tip of the whip at over 1700 feet per second, and that's putting an EXTREME strain on the entire whip. Unless you're somebody who can just drop LOTS of monies on replacements, it's not something that should be used hap hazardly....that is if you're expecting symphathy from folks who know better, and you've trashed yours 'like a cowboy'.

Also, the photo example you use is of a man who is using a prop whip that he does not necessarily own, and once torn up, they just hand him another one, so sure, HE'S going to use his any way HE wants.

Personally, I use mine somewhere between 'cowboy' and babied. It's a tool, but like all tools, used with care. Not rode hard and put away wet.

Regards. Michaelson

Yeah, besides, we're just picking on you, Snakewhip. Can you tell it's Friday and I'm already wishing it was 5 o'clock?

That's what I figured. Lash's DM seems, not delicate or fragile, but... I don't know how to word it (fancy?) - not so tough as this cheap bullwhip I have - it's super thick cowhide and after all, it was only $15 including shipping.

My nylon whip might get burrs if it were longer (it's around 6' with the fall) and I practiced on pavement, but somehow, though it's made of weaker material, it seems more durable and versatile than a 'roo hide whip.

Do folks have 'work' or stunt whips, then, and just save the fancy ones for 'show', as it were?

I don't mind bein' picked on. It makes me feel like one of the crew.

I have a Robert Duke eight-footer and though I shouldn't, I am often up on the roof-deck cracking it, trying not to drag it on the ground (Concrete block). Though the edges are getting a bit worn. Sometimes I crack it inside, but this restricts the cracks I can do! -And it terrifies my roommate's cats! -Though my dog seems fine with it.

I try to take good care of it, as I do all of my gear. I've noticed that the oils of my hand are starting to darken the leather nicely.
My feeling is, if I wear it out I'll get another one. I know I'll get another eventually anyway, because that's how I am. But, if I wear this one out, I have an excuse.

What did that one cost you, Hemmingway?

I realize they're not readily disposable, but even pants, shoes, and jackets eventually wear out. Right? I had a motorcycle jacket I wore for about 14 years before it finally needed replacing - but I wore it every day and through, let's say 'distressing situations' (pun intended), but I never babied it though it cost me a pretty penny. Even my new 'dress' jacket has a few barbed wire nicks in it.

I'd be a lot more careful with a fine, fine whip, like Hemmingway does, but I'd still 'work' it. I think.

If I ever spend big dough on one, I may change my attitude, but I'll let you know.

You know what, Sable? I'm not sure what it cost me, exactly. IndianaFist and I bought two at the same time and Mr. Duke cut us a deal. I believe it was somewhere in the vicinity of $245, if my memory serves me correctly.
They can be found here:
http://www.indygear.com/forum/viewtopic ... ight=twins

The roohide whips I make for myself are both babied and abused. Some more than others. My primary "abuse" whip gets used for what ever task I need whether it be cracking on gravel, hiking in the rain or wrapping the rough bark of a tree. But at the end of the day I clean it, dress it and make sure it is in good working condition before hanging it up.

Tools and gear that are properly maintained and cared for will continue to hold up when made to perform above and beyond their intended purpose. But nothing lasts forever and you must be prepared for their inevitable, and costly, repair or replacement.

You have no one to blame but yourself when your whip fails from what is commonly thought of as abusive activity.

Yeah, it's like having a dress hat as well as an adventure/stunt hat. People generally have more than one whip, hat, pair of pants, et cetera, right?

Sableman,

The reason most people are told to baby their whips and especially if the are kangaroo whips is that kangaroo is not near as durable as cowhide. That is the downside to roo. The upside to kangaroo is that it has 7 to 10 times the tensile strength and with that can make a more densely braided whip, which makes it more efficient as well. Cowhide has a random grain patter giving it more durability but losing the tensile factor to the kangaroo. THe roo has a grain giving it the tensile strength. So baby the oo whips to extend your investment as you know are a lot more expensive than cowhide whips. Of course everyone just starting should probably get a cowhide whip or two or three and beat them to pieces til you've mastered it then baby your roo whips. Keep a good cowhide whip for situations where the terrain is rough. Keep a roo whip for times when it's ok. If you have to the roo in those rough places like concrete do your best to keep the cracks in the overhead. Sometimes easier said than done, but possible. You will still drag it a bit on the ground, but, hey thats life. Buy another roo whip and then another. I talked to a guy the other night that is a total crack addict. That is he loves cracking whips and even just holding one in his hands makes him feel good. He owns 105 right now with probably at least 85 of them are kangaroo by some of the finest whipmakers in the world. That seems ridiculous. He buys them every month it seems but HE LOVES THE WHIP. I admire the guy and his passion. In fact, I've told him that I am going develop a new model whip and name it after him for his passion. I think thats real dedication on his part. I tip my hat to the man. He has two more whips on order. He says 200 whips is an accomplishable goal and even said 500. My my my... unimaginable. Oh well, I've rambled.

If you are a crack addict then one whip won't be enough!

Crack addicts anonymous

Robert Duke

Thank you for that very thoughtful and informative answer!

I don't know if I'll ever bother with a 'roo whip, but I'll definately get another leather bullwhip - based on answers here, a cowhide one. I have three whips so far and my favourite is the nylon snakewhip (hence my user name).

The expense of a 'roo one just doesn't seem justifiable to me if I can't really work it.

"crack addict"!! I love it!

That's a cool story about the whip guy - seems like a good idea naming one after him.

Dear Mr. Sable,

I used to own a 10 foot kangaroo whip that I made for myself so I could beat the tick out of and see what happened. I did this so that I could determine for myself if kangaroo was really going to stand up to abuse of use in the woods, but not on the concrete. It took it's punishment and kept on going. I sold it, and miss having it, but when it left my hand after three plus years of abuse, it looked good.

Awhile back, I made this ugly 4-plait whip out of latigo, the same material used on falls. It was a 10 foot stockwhip, with a really short handle, and had no belly in it all. The taper was created by the overlay. Being that I made this very cheaply, and in about 45 minutes, I decided that it wasn't worth much. So, I set out to abuse it on concrete. I remember a particulary tough session on the concrete, and it was a bit roughened up. Running my hand over it and smoothing it down seemed to work to "fix" it back to normal. I've since given it to a friend of mine, who treats it like @#$% also. Know what? It still looks good. Well, as good as an ugly whip like that can!

For awhile I'd been toying with the idea of making whips from cowhide as well as kangaroo. That's not because I don't like roo, in fact, I prefer to work with it, as it's much nicer. But, I've always wanted to produce whips, for myself as well, that I could treat like a baby treats a diaper. In my mind, cowhide is it. Couple that with the fact that currently, roo is getting pretty scarce, seems like a no brainer to me. I know that I'll be able to produce whips in cowhide, with two plaited bellies as I make on the kangaroo whips, and come close to the handling of the kangaroo, in terms of weight, density, feel, etc. They'll probably less in the strand count department, since similar width strands in cowhide are much less strong in cowhide, especially near the fall hitch. They'll definitely be cheaper because the material is cheaper. That way, people can have a cheap alternative that they can use on concrete, or beat up.

I figure I'm not too different from most people that buy a whip and want to abuse it. I'm just hoping that most people agree with me on the fact that I'd be more inclined to abuse cowhide before kangaroo. Tough v. handling characteristics.

By they way, you can hang on a 4-plait kangaroo thong with no belly to it. Kangaroo is THAT strong. But, you will stretch the dickens out of it.

I'd abuse my whips, because I can make more. Those that have to shell out the $$$ should keep that in mind when using them. You can be nearly certain that you'll cut a strand in a kangaroo whip if you catch it on sharp metal, such as sheet metal, but not necessarily with cowhide.

I've always like cowhide for the toughness, but kangaroo for making whips.

One thought to ponder: How many leather motorcycle outfits are made of kangaroo?

I'm rambling because it's Friday and I want to go home!

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

It was a most excellent ramble, good sir.

Almost leads me to believe I'm not as blasphemous as I'd previously thought. But still a whip blasphemer, nontheless.

Thank you!

That's funny that in my post, the word tick is used to replace the word for liquid yellow excrement, which starts with P and ends in iss.

Very clever!

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

PS> I don't think you are a whip blasphemer!

Just going sideways a bit, is that Karen Allen in the wagon?
It looks like someone else to me...

Shake it like a Polaroid picture!!!

That would be vic armstrongs wife.
Adam

Ah, cheers Molorom!
Sorry to interrupt the thread!

Molorom wrote:That would be vic armstrongs wife.
Adam

Are you certain?? I just watched that scene and it looks like Karen Allen to me.
'Blues

It's all a question of economics. Where do you want your money to go? I'd say beat the excrement out of whatever whip you can afford to replace. In that case your money would eventually go towards a replacement whip. I'm sure all the whipmakers here would be happy to make you that replacement.

I would personally want to spend less money a whip that would be put under harsh use and require replacement.

I did a musical this fall in which I cracked a whip. I chose to use a whip that was made pretty much like the 4-plait Indy-on-a-budget bullwhip because I didn't want a nice kangaroo whip getting nicked and dusty as well as handled by whoever backstage.

As an aside, another thing I've been doing, what with some of the rainy weather in Wisconsin, is cracking my kangaroo whips over my gravel driveway. I do just like Robert said and keep the whip in the overhead as best as I can. As soon as one arm gets tired I switch to the other arm, and then keep switching until neither arm wants to crack anymore. Now, I could just let the whip fall in the gravel, but then I'd have to see all those nicks and I just hate it when a good whip goes bad

And for anyone looking for a cowhide whip, please consider the three cowhide variations on the Indy whip that I offer. Okay, that's enough for a shameless plug!

-Adam Winrich, www.winrichwhips.com

My morgan has only touched the ground twice

I have a roo and a cowhide. I got the roo for screen accuarcy and performance and plus, if you're a whip enthusiast, you HAVE to own at least one good roo. The roo I use in grass, dirt and sometimes gravel. I've found that dirt doesn't do much to it, besides get it dirty. Gravel seems to be pretty easy on it, since it's a "loose" material. But ALWAYS avoid concrete with roo. Cowhide is simply tougher. My first whip was a cheap black plastic (the WSP whip) swivel handle when I was nine or ten. I knew NOTHING about whip care and beat that thing without mercy. I used it on all terrain, in snow, in rain, in mud. I even swung from it sometimes. I STILL have that whip today, twenty-three years later. Other than being completely discolored and the plaiting being a bit loose it still looks good. I have currently an antique cowhide whip I got from ebay a while back. Beautifully made whip! It had a broken handle, though which I stripped down to the spike and wrapped in tape for the time being. .This is my hiking/all-terrain whip. I also plan to get one of Adam W.'s IOAB whips soon. The point of this long-wided rant is this: I think EVERY whip enthusiast should own at least one roo and one cowhide. This will give you what you need to fully enjoy the use of a whip. Roo for the best possible performance, cow for everything else.

Whipmakers;

Is it possible to make a cow-roo hybrid whip?

Are you proposing some radical interspecies breeding methods or thinking of just mixing strands of 'roo with strands of cow?

Bad Penny wrote:Whipmakers;

Is it possible to make a cow-roo hybrid whip?

Could you be a bit more specific? Many whipmakers use cowhide for the rolled core and bolsters, and some may even plait a belly using cowhide. And then the final belly and overlay of roo.

Or did you have something else in mind for hybrid whips?

Jerry

(who is not being confused with any other Jerry on this list <chuckle>)

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:Are you proposing some radical interspecies breeding methods or thinking of just mixing strands of 'roo with strands of cow?

No breeding methods, no!

Yes, I was wondering if whipmakers mix cow and roo strands.

jerryrwm wrote:Could you be a bit more specific? Many whipmakers use cowhide for the rolled core and bolsters, and some may even plait a belly using cowhide. And then the final belly and overlay of roo.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at!

Baby the whip or treat it like a cowboy?

That's simple. If you are a cowboy, then by all means don't baby it. Otherwise, if it's your hobby why abuse something that is so cherished and expensive? I don't understand why people crack on concrete, gravel or asphalt. You will eventually break a strand by the half hitches or the strands at end of the thong. Not worth it in my opinion. If you have time, just find a nice grassy place to crack outside or a carpetted indoor area.

Maybe it's just my nature, but I just enjoy keeping something as long as possible. Which applies to cars, shoes, clothes, homes, etc. It's pride in ownership.

Baby it.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at!

Are you talking possibley about a hybrid bullwhip by which
the inner layers consist of a Roo hide core, belly, or bellies, bolsters and
the overlay in say 12 plait cowhide?

Have the best of both? the handling of a roohide bullwhip with the scuff resistence of cowhide, if that is the case, I would humbly say,
Jerryrwm? does this sound familar? .



Jim J.

Jim,

I seem to remember something about something similar. Refresh my memory if you would please.

Jerry

I seem to remember you once talking about a customer , (on the whipmakers forum)wanting you to make him a whip to those spec's, roohide innards, with a cowhide overlay.


I can't remember what you ended up doing now that I think about it,
, although if you did make it, that would have been one sweet cracking whip to be sure.

Or do I have you confused with someone else? ,

if so sorry about that.




Jim J.

So, do you gents recommend a cowhide bullwhip for a beginning cracker, or a roo whip?

As far as the price tag is concerned, I'd say cow. If, on the other hand, money is an issue of lesser importance, go with roo. The rest is a matter of personal preference. I don't see any other reason why a beginner shouldn't invest in a roo whip from day one.

Scandinavia Jones wrote:As far as the price tag is concerned, I'd say cow. If, on the other hand, money is an issue of lesser importance, go with roo. The rest is a matter of personal preference. I don't see any other reason why a beginner shouldn't invest in a roo whip from day one.

Thanks, SJ!

binkmeisterRick wrote:"He's a witch!!!! Burn 'im!!!"

"How do you know he's a witch?"

"He turned me into a newt!"

... I got better.

Sorry couldnt resist.

Ok you guys are going to hate me - my whip has been cracked on tarmac, dust, rocks.. - I actually have tearing to the head of the handle due to it being attached when I was dragged along the ground.

My whip is on my belt in the following picture:



In retrospect, probably not the wisest of moves, but the whip still functions perfectly well. They are pretty tough things I have found.

Ken

Mmmm, yeah. Even I'd have used a 'stunt whip' for that. I'm doing a stunt for a film and I'm probably going to use a belt or two or hemp rope to represent the whip so the real one doesn't get ruined. I'd recommend you do that for that stunt of yours as well, Ken. You know the one I mean. Someone wore a coiled braided belt in their whip holder at the QM Summit to wander the Mouse's theme park with out (too much) harrassment from DisNazis.

Good way to distress the rest of your gear, though. Being dragged along the ground and all. Can't get more authentic than that.

I use my 10' cowhide whip on pavement and gravel a lot and the only wear has been in the fall.

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:
Good way to distress the rest of your gear, though. Being dragged along the ground and all. Can't get more authentic than that.

Good way to distress your arms as well... believe me.

Ken