'The Turn' worn off-centre

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:37 am

I found this pic interesting - it looks like Ford's hat is being worn 'straight' (i.e. as it would be worn before 'the turn') - the front pinch is way out of line with his nose - yet the hat still seems to have the trademark swoop and the 'mushroom effect' going on.

<img src=http://www.indianajones.ugo.com/images/ ... ark_38.jpg>

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:44 am

I'm telling you, that hat is alive!! It has a mind of it's own, and will do whatever it takes to look cool on Harrisons head, no matter what!!!
Turned this way, turned that way, pinched here, bashed there, it's all irrelevant. The hat...is....ALIVE!!!!!

'Blues

Sorry, haven't had my morning java yet.
Back to your regularly scheduled hat theories.

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:25 am

The turn theory ... All I have to say is Ford's head is a extra long oval. With that shape head, it naturally creates the inverted taper or mushroom. Lee Keppler's head is the same way. He can put on any fedora and it well create an inverse taper.

To physically demonstrate the above, put one finger inside on the rear of the sweat band and the other finger inside on the front band. Then slowly pull your fingers away from each other. Eventually you see the famous Raider's swoop and curls on the brim. You will also see the crown start to taper inversely.

Some people are lucky. I am the opposite - round oval. So for me I need to put shims in the fore and aft positions of the fedora to simulate a long oval.

Again, just my .02.. to the subject.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:56 am

My vintage Borsalino does exactly what this photo shows, and always has. When worn straight on, the dent refuses to center to the crown, but forms at the angles as shown on Fords fedora. Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:00 pm

You know, Michaelson, sometimes I wish I would've kept that hat and had it sized down to fit my noggin because I loved how that hat reacted. But mostly I'm glad it's getting well loved and worn by someone who appreciates it!

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:03 pm

My friend, since I got it, it's about the only hat I grab when walking out the door. It remains pretty high in the rotation. Once again, thank you!!! High regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:13 pm

Sure thing!

I keep telling my vintage clothier friend to keep an eye out for another one, but so far, no **** luck!

bink

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:23 pm

So for me I need to put shims in the fore and aft positions of the fedora to simulate a long oval.

That's interesting - are the shims just pieces of foam at the front and back of the hat, under the sweatband?

Does a long oval (or simulated long oval) have a tendancy cause taper in the front and back of the hat? I'm thinking about the "reverse taper" we see on the back of the Raiders hat - I would have thought that pulling the back out longways, as it were, would have a tendancy to do this: \ rather than this: / ?

Enquiring minds want to know etc.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:31 pm

I've said it for years, and have seen it occur with my own eyes with my hats, as my head shape does requre long oval. When a fedora is pulled on that is not a long oval, it makes the brim and crown do odd things, as they're being distorted into directions they were not made to do originally by the shape of an oval head. The infamous 'swoop', and so called crown 'turn' has been seen on all my hats to date that were not made in a long oval, and I have always worn them straight fore and aft. If the felt is light enough, those shape changes everyone recreates by turning, twistin, 'swooping' , what ever, occur naturally with the felt. Regards. Michaelson

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:31 pm

ob1al wrote:
So for me I need to put shims in the fore and aft positions of the fedora to simulate a long oval.

That's interesting - are the shims just pieces of foam at the front and back of the hat, under the sweatband?
No foam inserts compress too much. I used thick felt samples from the hatter.

Does a long oval (or simulated long oval) have a tendancy cause taper in the front and back of the hat? I'm thinking about the "reverse taper" we see on the back of the Raiders hat - I would have thought that pulling the back out longways, as it were, would have a tendancy to do this: \ rather than this: / ?

Enquiring minds want to know etc.

Just try pulling the fingers slowly apart. It doesn't take much, but you can see for yourself.

-S

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:43 pm

Hmm - I think I must have a long oval head shape. When I try to gently pull the back of my Optimo out, I get more taper \ happening at the back. It's only by gently pulling on the 'right and left' sides of the hat that I get a reverse taper happening, unfortunately I can't achieve this with the hat on my head. I also get those 'Raiders' type curls happpening on the sides of the brim, naturally.

With all of my hats, the greatest 'pressure' seems to be on the front and back, fractionally looser on the sides. I'm a long oval, right?

:

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:45 pm

ob1al wrote: With all of my hats, the greatest 'pressure' seems to be on the front and back, fractionally looser on the sides. I'm a long oval, right? :

Indeed. If there is a gap on the sides, you are a long oval.

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:55 pm

Thanks fellas - Sergei, Michaelson - I've learned something very useul there!

(Now back to the scheduled programme.

)

Regards,

Al

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:56 pm

The felt on my vintage Dobbs is nice and responsive. I find that the shape varies depending on how it sits on my head. I'm able to get a nice swoop out of the brim without having to alter the hat at all. That's why I'm looking forward to the AdventureBilt hats. Fedora's new offerings will likely handle and conform like the hats of yesteryear!

bink

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:02 pm

Also, from looking at the head shape sketches at Locke & Co almost all of them had an irregular shape besides being oval. You might not see it from looking in the mirror or feeling around with your hands, but it's there on a lot of people and I guess that could help out with creating bumps and twists in the felt too? Just a thought.

Regards,
Swindiana

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 3:49 am

Sergei wrote:To physically demonstrate the above, put one finger inside on the rear of the sweat band and the other finger inside on the front band. Then slowly pull your fingers away from each other. Eventually you see the famous Raider's swoop and curls on the brim. You will also see the crown start to taper inversely.

Son of a gun! That's amazing! I just did this as I was reading it and it was stunning...look at that mushroom...hunh...need to go stick my head in the vice a little longer...