Club Obi Wan

Hey All,

I'm hoping to get the IOAB bullwhip added to my website soon. I just sent pictures and text to my web developer, so it should happen sooner than later. Since I'm getting added to my website, I came up with a new price system.

For all future orders, the IOAB bullwhip is now $10 per foot plus shipping. For those of you who liked the $60 price, you can still get one, but it will be 6 feet long instead of 8. The 8 footers will go for $80.

Best Regards,

Adam Winrich, www.winrichwhips.com

I trust most folks not to make an issue of this, but just in case, please nobody give Adam a hard time about the price change.

Look around, and you'll see this is still a competitive price compared to other starter whips, and they typically do NOT have a nice plaited handle which makes it so Indy-esque.

And if you want testimonials, just search on 'IOAB', 'IOASS', or 'Winrich' and look at all the recent threads and posts from other members who bought these and you'll see nothing but EXCELLENT feedback! These whips CRACK, handle well, and the craftsmanship is excellent!

Adam, I still think you should get an honorary knighthood for bringing an Indy-like whip down into the price range of the less fortunate (you know, folks like me!). Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Indiana Jerry, aka 'Indy-On-A Budget'

Wow...now I'm glad i snatched one of these up early! That price is still quite reasonable, especially cmpared to other "budget" whips.

Even at $80, they're still a lot nicer than the Keppler whips, in my opinion. They look better, are more visually acurate, and come in a choice of colors (like BROWN!). I know that at one recent gathering of whip makers and entusiasts, the whip makers were more than surprised at the quality of this whip and suggested Adam sell them for more than he was currently offering them. Now my guess is that Adam's current price is still FAR below what these guys were suggesting, so you still can't go wrong. I am more than happy with my IOAB whip and knowing what I know now about these whips, I still would've bought one even at the current price. You can't go wrong! It's a great whip!

bink

I'm losing count on how many times the scoundrel above is being right.

I was out yesterday with it and showed it to a friend of mine who cracked it too. He was very impressed with it, to say the least. I gave him Adam's card.

Cheers, Bink.

Regards,
Swindiana

Swindiana wrote:I'm losing count on how many times the scoundrel above is being right.

Truth hurt, doesn't it? I have no regrets getting my whip! Well, the only regret I have is that I don't have enough opportunity to crack it as much as I would like!

bink

binkmeisterRick wrote:I know that at one recent gathering of whip makers and entusiasts, the whip makers were more than surprised at the quality of this whip and suggested Adam sell them for more than he was currently offering them.

That'd be at the DFW Whip Weekend a month ago. Even with the price increase, this is a quality whip. It lets off a big boom, even in the hands of a gal.

Man, that price went up quicker than oil prices!!!
Just kidding. I agree it's still a great price, nonetheless, but isn't this
2 price increases over a months time??
'Blues

IndyBlues wrote:Man, that price went up quicker than oil prices!!!
Just kidding.

The whip was in the initial research and production stages, and was sent to market research. During that time production costs such as materials, labor, overhead and profit margins were analyized. And even at the current price, I will guarantee that Adam is not getting rich making these whips unless you consider $15.00/hr rich man's wages.

At $10.00 per foot that is one heck of a deal. I have one of Adam's whips that he sent down for the Whip Weekend, and it is a dandy! Great beginning whip and it is one that will take the abuse and still reach out and give you the crack you want. This was one of his first Indy budget whips and I showed it to about 30 people - from advanced to beginning whipcrackers - and they were all impressed with it. Nearly everyone said these whips were worth at least $75.00 and more.

Folks you are not gonna go wrong getting one of these whips.You can take them out in the wet (you can do that with 'roo whips too believe it or not.) and you can take them to the cattle pens, and you could even take them to a street in Cairo, and it will do it.

The price is still the best deal going. And I have seen a few whips in my day so I do have a little idea of what I'm talking about.

Jerry R
whipmaker

IndyBlues wrote:I agree it's still a great price, nonetheless, but isn't this 2 price increases over a months time?? 'Blues

Not carping on you, Blues, but while yes, this is the third price mentioned in about a month, the first price was a speculative goal before doing more than one or two, the second was a better guess after making a handful, and this is a more mature cost estimation. I personally would not fault Adam if he had to raise it another $20 considering the excellent craftsmanship and the anticipated demand, so if you want one, maybe ya ought try to beat the possible announcement of a fourth price?

Actually, a more important point to consider here is that - and Adam, correct me if I am wrong here - Adam is able to offer these because for the time being he has a good source on economic cowhide of just the right type and color (I don't know all the particulars of leather myself). Adam found a way to make it work, but I believe he had to TRY to make it work, and it's possible that if something happens w/ this cowhide source in the future then that might make it infeasible for him to continue offering these whips at such an economic rate.

Just thinking, though, Adam could set me straight on that.

"throw them the bait, and they will pull on the line"
If it was possible for you to sell this whip at its starting price,
why isent it now? why raise the prices 3 times in a row?
Personally, I think you should have a calculated price before you start
to sell the whips. Some people will probably give me a hard time for saying this, but I am just defending mike.
A. Wolff

Well, my friend, sometimes, pre-production costs are not completely calculated in an effort to get the prototype into the marketplace, and therefore they are basically sold at cost. Then as the production starts and materials and labor are actually calculated it becomes evident that the initial price was at or below break-even point, and no one can stay in business if they can't make enough to cover costs, and have a profit.

Even at $10.00/ft I would hazard a guess that Adam is making about 25% gross profit. Out of that he still needs to payr taxes as well other overhead costs such as new blades, and replacement tools. Those splitters don't come cheap (about $200.00 and up) so his net is going to be around $15.00 on an 8' whip.

So, when one decides to make whips for sale, whether it be cowhide, nylon, or 'roo, you better have an idea of what it actually costs to make one. Especially if you have to buy the materials yourself. Because at some point the income may be surpassed by the expense and then you might as well be doing something else because you're losing money.

And when several knowledgeble people tell you that maybe you aren't charging enough for your craft, including customers, it might be time to listen. Look around at other whips being sold, compare the quality and craftsmanship and see if these things aren't a bargain. Did anyone bother to tell Lee Kepler that his whips were to expensive or too cheap, Or Texas Bullwhips, or Kyle Skold, or Paul Stenhouse, or Robert Duke, or any of a large number of whipmakers? Call Joe Strain or David Morgan and tell them that their whips are too expensiveIf you don't like the price, then you have a choice - don't buy the whip.

Look at the other gear that members on this forum have purchased. What did Peter charge for his Westeds when he was first selling them? What about those $100.00 pair of pants? Or those $75.00 MK-VII bags? I've said it before and I'll reiterate it again - "If you can spend upwards of $300.00 on a jacket, $200.00 on a hat, $150.00 on a pair of Aldens, etc, etc, why in the world do you complain about a price that a whipmaker charges.

As whipmakers, we are not doing this so everyone can get a cheap replica of the original whips from the movies and we lose money doing it.. We are selling a product of our craft, and we deserve to make a fair profit at it. I have had people, even from this list ask if I would sell them an 8' Indy style 'roo whip for $125.00. The answer that I wanted to give them can't be printed here, but in exxence I was laughing my butt off when I hung up the phone. It ain't gonna happen.

So, if Adam has raised his prices 2, 3, 4, or more times in a month, then that is his business. He has honored all the orders at the prices he quoted originally at the time of the sale. And I seem to remember that there were several posts that recommended getting the order in soon before the price went up. (In fact I made that suggestion about a month ago.)

Just my $.02 on this, and now I'll shut up about it.

Jerry R

Hey guys, didn't mean to start a war, just making an observation.
I agree, it's a great price considering what whips cost nowadays.

jerrywrm, so you are saying the whip was tested out to see if it would sell, and then since it DID sell, it was decided to increase the price??
I agree, thats a smart move.
Like I said, it's an unbeatable price, even if it was $15.00 a foot.
:idea: Hey...There's an idea!

Just kidding! Don't take me so seriously, I'm just a simple man trying to make my way in the Indy universe.
'Blues

Thanks to Jerry R. and Indiana Jerry for there thoughts and support.

When I started making whips, my rough philosophy on how to develop a price for a product went roughly like this: First, I make one, then I look at it and decide how much I would pay for it if I wanted to buy one. Since I'm kind of cheap, I set the initial price a little higher than that.

That's how I set my prices when I started whip making. After I spent time with Jim Hurlbutt, I developed some more whips and then priced them so that I made $20 an hour as well as cover material costs. This is how my kangaroo hide whips are priced and I stand behind them as a high-quality product.

For my cowhide whips, however, I've always set the prices based on the first method, without consideration for how much I should pay myself for my labor. In developing the IOAB bullwhip, I was initially trying to meet the request of a person on the forum who was looking for a costume whip for less than $40. I thought I could do it so I made a whip and initially offered it at that price. That's the whip the Jerry R. currently has for sale.

$40 was definitely too low, and when I was able to offer a budget whip in a more accurate color I tried to set a better price. The $60 price was set and it met the needs of several customers. That price, however, didn't accurately reflect my costs. Now that I've sold about a dozen budget whips I have a better idea of what it takes me in time and material to make them.

Another economical philosophy I had (but never applied before now) for pricing hand work is something like this: Raise or lower the price until you have the amount of work that you want. I think that if DM sold his whip at Paul Stenhouse's prices, David would have way more work than he or his assistant could handle, without having a very long waiting list. So he raised the price, decreased the demand, and ended up with a reasonable number of orders.

From when I introduced the IOAB bullwhip to Halloween, I got a lot of interest and spent quite a bit of time making IOAB bullwhips. After setting this latest price, my hope is that demand for them becomes more manageable for me and allows me time and energy to make some other types of whips. I'm hoping to get a few fancy kangaroo bullwhips done and on Ebay before Christmas.

Also, I checked out the Keppler whip. I'm familiar with the style of overlay that he's using. It's an 8-plait whip, but just barely. There appear to be 8 strands on and near the handle, but most of the whip is done in 4 strands. It's very similar to rawhide whips that are made in Mexico. He gets $90 for an 8 foot whip with an 8-plait handle. Since my whip is 4-plait for the whole length, I didn't feel justified charging the same amount as Keppler for the same length.

Anyway, I hope I still get a few orders. Maybe I'll get a lot of interest for whips as Christmas gifts.

-Adam Winrich, www.winrichwhips.com

Jerry,
Your points are well taken.
But im talking from a whipmakers perspective. Knowing what hides cost, and every thing ales costs.exe.....its easy enough to have a standard cost per whip. Uasualy, one can get a top of the line cow side at a leather discount store (www.brettunsvillage.com), for 50$ each. Figure in the facts, that 1 side, would probably be able to produce 2 IOASSB, because of the way they are made from what i can tell, and re-sell 2, 8 footers for 80$, thats 60$ profit per whip.
A. Wolff

Molorom wrote:Jerry,
Your points are well taken.
But im talking from a whipmakers perspective. Knowing what hides cost, and every thing ales costs.exe.....its easy enough to have a standard cost per whip. Uasualy, one can get a top of the line cow side at a leather discount store (www.brettunsvillage.com), for 50$ each. Figure in the facts, that 1 side, would probably be able to produce 2 IOASSB, because of the way they are made from what i can tell, and re-sell 2, 8 footers for 80$, thats 60$ profit per whip.
A. Wolff

If you can make em and sell em for that profit, go for it. If you can make them as nicely as Adam, great, folks here will take them off your hands cheap.

Not sure what your complaint here is w/ a fellow vendor. Make em, buy em, don't, whatever, but who is it you are angry at?

*unsubscribe*

if you are making a living off of this,
Then that is a good price. Im doing it as a hobby,
so profit is not a factor i really care about. Sorry for bashing you guys.
When i think about it, i sometimes feel like i should be getting more
than what i am making off of my whips, cause of the time it takes.
I forgot what we were mad about? Lets just forget about this whole thing.
It seems like everytime i post i here i sound stupid and even more stupid,
and i know that not very many people really "like" me very much now.
I really dont like making people angry,
and though it is probably to late,
sorry guys.
A. Wolff

Adam (Wolff) -

Believe it or not, that last post of yours just did a LOT to restore my opinion of you. Thank you for taking the time to look at it both ways.

I've gotten other good advice from you in other areas regarding whips, so I figured this was just something you had to work out.

Don't be hesitant to post, it's an open forum. And thanks for putting some respect back in the conversation at the end.

I'll keep listening, and no, you DON'T sound stupid.

Jerry

Hey Adam (Winrich)

I got my Indy-on-a-budget in the mail yesterday. You make one #### of a whip. I can't believe that you sell these at the prices you do (even with your increases). This really is a great service that you are providing for the Indy community! I cracked it outside a bunch last night (I have had a swivel whip before and sort of knew how), and wow!! My kids came running outside thinking I had fired my musket in the backyard (which is generally a no-no without a special permit). You do some amazing work - and then to offer it a such a low price.....your the man!!! Thanks!!!


...........Bruce

Hi everyone, I also got my IOAB Whip yesterday, actually it was Monday.
It was much more then i expected when i opened it. I am more then happy and for the amount paid i feel i got a really great whip for an amazing price. I also went with a 9 footer like Swindiana did and am glad i did. Now that I have it i would still have jumped on it at another $20. I couldn't beleive how heavy it was, was definitly a higher quality i expected for what i paid. I'm waiting for a good place and time to try to crack it since i learned insides not the best place .

As far as the weight of the whip in the handle,,,I seen another of Adam's whips that said "packed leather core". Is that instead of the metal peice in the core of the IOAB whip, and does it make it lighter? The handle of my whip can double as a close counter weapon,when too close to crack it, just knock them on the head with the handle. Thank you Adam, the Whip was perfect! Still no way for me to post pics but someday ill hit you all at once with them. :!:

Regards, Eric

Yeah, it's got quite a heft to it, doesn't it? Heavier than my other whip, but darn it this cracks SO much easier - I don't know enough about whips to know if that's cause of the construction or directly cause of the weight, but it really seems like the weight of the handle and the start (end?) of the thong helps really pull it for a crack.

And just think of the bicep, tricep, trap, delt, and shoulder cap muscle tone you're building with a heavier whip...

That's why it's good to teach yourself to be ambidexterous when it comes to whip arts.

Good for you on the 9 footer, Indycire.
Did you get a a chance to crack it yet?

Regards,
Swindiana

Indiana Jerry wrote: And just think of the bicep, tricep, trap, delt, and shoulder cap muscle tone you're building with a heavier whip...

You know it!!! After the second good workout I had with my IOAB whip, I flexed my arm muscles at my wife and her eyes nearly popped out of her head. "I TOLD you this was a good workout!" I just wish I had a good space to keep crackin' it!

bink

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:That's why it's good to teach yourself to be ambidexterous when it comes to whip arts.

hehehe...dead on. good news is I have two little house apes, so I've been switching arms for a couple years now...70 combined pounds of sugar and spice.
<img src="http://tinypic.com/fw55l">

Sorry, couldn't resist the shameless excuse to post that again...to stay a bit on topic, they can't afford an IOAB, but they have added the word 'whip' to their list of things little girls can't have. (Said list formerly included soda, coffee, tea, beer, wine, matches, fire, explosives, Daddy's tools, and the driver's seat. )

Man, yer a mean, mean dad. NO explosives?! None? Why... that's just cruel.

The whip, though, I can understand. Someone might get hurt.

Yeah, that rule had to be added after I watched the 5 year old correctly insert a fuse into a gopher-bomb and reach for the box of wooden matches!

This is why I call her Sponge. She also did repeat back to me everything I told her about the whip, the sound barrier, sonic booms, etc.

Swindiana wrote:Did you get a a chance to crack it yet?

I have not got to really crack it yet, the neighbors are too close. One of these days I'll take it over to a park or something. I have it in my bag so its with me when i get to a good place. Well i could crack it outside my house but not sure i want to find out what will happen,so I'll wait.