Club Obi Wan

ReturningSon wrote:Yeah, I was talking to Tony and he said "wait, check this out". He scuttled in the back of his shop and returned. He threw the jacket on my lap and said "what do you think?" At first, I didn't know what it was. It certainly was a raiders jacket but had that worn like and did feel like it was over 20 years old. He said it was an original jacket and was worth only about 80,000 bucks. My dad, whom I brought along and is another avid Indy fan, said four words and a smile:

"we'll take that one"...

When were you at his shop? I was there Aug 13th.

Guys - the 80s cut existed. It obviously wasn't called an "80s cut" during the 80s. It was just a pattern that was designed to fit mens proportions of the 70's and 80's. I believe Peter called it the "919" pattern. This information came directly from Peter.

Pretty much all fashion design has to take into account the changing shapes of people over the years and patterns are adjusted accordingly.

I just wanted to clarify that the pattern used for Ford's jackets in 1980 / 1981 was most DEFINITELY smaller than the equivalent size of todays jackets. I'm sure Peter doesn't make these things up!

Chris

RCSignals wrote:
It's been stated that the jacket delivered to Tony was THE Hero jacket. You''l have to read back.
.

It was later reported to be the Martin Grace jacket too, so I'm confused...

Actually Kt - it was reported to be the Martin Grace jacket BEFORE it was reported to be THE hero jacket.

This is where my problem is - I'd just like to know, once and for all - what was the jacket that he used to make his patterns. I just can't find pics of the hero jacket on Ford's back which looks like this one, so I'm going to need some pretty convincing evidence to make me think it's anything more than a copy of an early Leather Concessionaries jacket.

Chris

Kt Templar wrote:

RCSignals wrote:
It's been stated that the jacket delivered to Tony was THE Hero jacket. You''l have to read back.
.

It was later reported to be the Martin Grace jacket too, so I'm confused...

I don't understand why the the "raiders jacket experts" don't get together at wested and sit down with peter and make the jacket you all want. It should not be that hard after all he has the patterns to make "authentic replica of the Original Film Version" and has the authentic hide. What more do you need for the real deal right?

Han, if it were that simple, it would have been done 20 years ago, and we wouldn't even be HAVING this discussion...let alone having so many vendors trying to achieve the same thing.

Re-read the history of the Raiders jacket regarding the 'original pattern', the fact the tannery that supplied the 'original hide' went out of business in the late 80's. etc. and realize it won't happen.

Regards! Michaelson

But with all the "experts" in England why not take all that info and just have Peter do it.

Well, the experts put together a list of SA specs, and you can order your jacket from Peter choosing the specs you prefer. At least this is what I have done with my SA(?) jacket. Perfection is not of this world...

THe 919 pattern was a style similar but not the same as a James Dean jacket but that was the easiest way to describe it.
It was this pattern that was used as the body shape of the raiders jacket with pockets from the A2 and reconfiguration of action pleat to accomodate gun & whip. That is the pattern now recut on which the 80's cut is based.
Cheers
Peter

so the jacket worn by Ford did have the snugger 2'' of wiggle room in the jacket?

or was it a regular fit but modified to fit the costume more with the whip.gun.etc and still be a regular fit?


Bests
Eric

Eric - remember that at the time, it wouldn't have been considered a "slimmer cut" while it was being made. It was probably just the 1980 equivalent of a 40 Regular.

Chris

Kt Templar wrote:

RCSignals wrote:
It's been stated that the jacket delivered to Tony was THE Hero jacket. You''l have to read back.
.

It was later reported to be the Martin Grace jacket too, so I'm confused...

Read back, that was not stated 'later' and was obviously an assumption.

RCSignals wrote:

Kt Templar wrote:

RCSignals wrote:
It's been stated that the jacket delivered to Tony was THE Hero jacket. You''l have to read back.
.

It was later reported to be the Martin Grace jacket too, so I'm confused...

Read back, that was not stated 'later' and was obviously an assumption.

It was stated by _ on 16/10 that it was copied from Martin Grace's jacket, and later he said it was the Hero jacket, so you can read back all you want. Its really confusing.

Dutch_jones wrote:

RCSignals wrote:

Kt Templar wrote:

RCSignals wrote:
It's been stated that the jacket delivered to Tony was THE Hero jacket. You''l have to read back.
.

It was later reported to be the Martin Grace jacket too, so I'm confused...

Read back, that was not stated 'later' and was obviously an assumption.

It was stated by _ on 16/10 that it was copied from Martin Grace's jacket, and later he said it was the Hero jacket, so you can read back all you want. Its really confusing.

Posted on 16/10

_ wrote:

junior wrote:Not what I expected. To be fair, the pics of this new jacket are not the best for one to be able to see how raiders-like this offering actually is. From what I see, it looks like a well made leather jacket, but...

Remember when that first Todd's custom was posted on COW? Of course you do. Now that was a Raiders jacket. Again, until we get some better pics of this new TN jacket, I'm going to have to say that this is not what I expected.

But you know what? If the buyer likes it, nothing else matters.

This post made me bust out laughing, JR. The reason is that I was just thinking about a post you made suggesting that "somebody wants an exact replica of the Raider's hero made" or some such thing. I responded with what I believed to be true at the time - that nobody but us chickens out here think about that stuff.

This week I have had some weird conversations, but I feel obligated to tell you that the little voice in my head said that "Holy poop! Junior may have been right!" Ok, I did not really think "poop"... You get my drift...

There are confidences to be kept, but...

Maybe I can just say, "Individuals who would know the whereabouts of the original Raiders of the Lost Ark hero jacket have told me directly that the original hero jacket has been in Tony's possession." When I talked to Tony yesterday, I asked the question both directly and indirectly. He is a man who does not betray a confidence, and I understand this. The response both times was his booming and contagious laugh, followed with, "Todd, you have to have one of these %%%%ing jackets, man!"

more on p.9 I think clears up that the jacket Tony had and replicated was the Hero jacket.

Really? Why doesn't it look anything like it then???
THAT'S what we're trying to get to the bottom of.

Chris

seems enough phots have been posted in this thread alone that show there had to be more than one jacket worn in the movie, all slightly different.

What _ seems to be saying is that this jacket TN has replicated is of the one original first given to DN, which is the original Hero jacket.

as I stated earlier

It's been stated that the jacket delivered to Tony was THE Hero jacket. You''l have to read back.
Some responses have questioned this, but until proven otherwise I see no reason to question this information.

Some have posted evidence that the early Wested jackets (which should have been the closest to the original pattern) had features similar to the jacket reproduced by Tony. Others have shown evidence that not all jackets used in the movie were exactly the same.
It's my feeling that the jackets people have developed specs for as the 'true' SA Raiders jacket (obviously still not conclusive as specs seem to change daily) is an amalgam of the different jackets seen being used in the movie.
This reproduced jacket is of the original Hero jacket as cited by _.

I see no reason for some of the vehement bashing of the TN jacket. If you like it buy it, if not because it doesn't support some of the current idea of the ultimate Raiders jacket, don't . It's simple.

and to add; we already know TN will accept your wanted 'variances' if you decide to buy from him.

I think you're missing the point.
If TN had access to THE Hero jacket, shouldn't the replica appear to be exactly like THE Hero jacket? I'm not in anyone's "camp" but I can't help thinking that this experience should have been like Peter's excellent Temple of Doom jacket offering. He showed us photos of the original, then he showed us photos of his replica which was an EXACT copy.

With this TN jacket, not only is the hide incorrect but the details, pocket placement, pocket shape, and pocket flap attachment are ALL wrong compared to what we can see of Ford's various hero jackets.

Even more startling is the fact that it appears to most closely resemble the David Hack Leather Concessionaries jacket and we have been told that one of the two jackets he had in his possession WAS an early Leather Concessionaries jacket.

I refuse to give a "list of variances" to TN because in my opinion, if he had THE Hero jacket to copy, I would not need to ask him to change a thing.

Sadly, there's no way anyone can convince me that jacket #001/888 is a copy of any Ford Hero jacket. I've done the research, I've got the pics, played the DVD etc, etc and I can't find this particular jacket anywhere on screen in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I REALLY wanted it to be. But it's not.

Chris

Mr. Nowak and i went through the pocket flaps in quite some detail. the jacket that he has on hand has slydini's pocket flaps from what he described. we also went over the construction of the flap itself which is where i requested getting the piping at the top put in as well as the shape changed. i didn't see any of those kind of pockets on ford throughout the movie. if ford wore this jacket with these flaps and yoke/sleeve seam configuration, i can't find it anywhere. there are more scenes of him wearing what we know the jacket to be than the one TN has in hand.....that is the bizarre part.

what is of value is the construction of this jacket if it indeed has a true bloodline (depth of pleats and their construction, arm hole placements, front and back lengths, etc.)....plus the hide selection. the hide is unlike any current offering and is distressed in tony's shop. all those factors justify my purchase imo.

from what we discussed with the collar....he's got the configuration nailed. i also stressed the importance of making the zipper nice and wavey.....he told me that that was a result of the zipper being not properly sized for the jacket. he can recreate that effect for sure.....i joked with him stating that you better watch out.....people might start thinking that you don't know how to install a zipper

the man rubs elbows with so many celebrities and big wigs, yet when you talk to him, he's a very humble gentlemen. a true gem of person.

cheers,


g[/list]

I don't doubt he's a great guy and the simple email exchanges we've had have been very pleasant.

However, you should probably read Peter Botwright's analysis of the hide Tony is using for this Raiders jacket. In a nutshell, it's far from being accurate from what Peter has said and also, what my eyes are telling me.

If people think this is the real thing, there's no amount of photo comparisons / discrepancy analysis that will sway their decision. I wish I could see whatever it is they're seeing and be happy with the purchase.

To my eyes, the Todd's standard (and most definitely the Todd's custom) is way more accurate than this TN jacket and Peter's authentic lamb is still the hide that needs to be beaten.

Chris

I really don't understand all the whinging.

I get that a few people don't like this jacket and it's configuration. Luckily for people who want a jacket it isn't the only jacket choice.

again:

I see no reason for some of the vehement bashing of the TN jacket. If you like it buy it, if not because it doesn't support some of the current idea of the ultimate Raiders jacket, don't . It's simple.

I can tell by one small detaill that it was NOT copied of a Hero jacket;)

Dutch_jones wrote:I can tell by one small detaill that it was NOT copied of a Hero jacket;)

Are you going to keep that a secret?

OK. If someone tells me that the jacket they are offering is an EXACT COPY of a HERO jacket from Raiders of the Lost Ark and when I see photos, it clearly ISN'T an exact copy, I start asking questions.

All of the "whinging" that has been done is purely because this jacket is not what it's being claimed to be. If it was truly an exact replica, I would not be having this discussion and would eagerly be awaiting the arrival of my jacket from TN.

Like I said, I desperately wanted this to be "it" but very clearly to me (and a few others) it's not right and I would like to know WHY it's not right.

I'm sorry if you don't like these questions that are being asked but in my opinion they NEED to be asked.

Chris

RCSignals wrote:I really don't understand all the whinging.

I get that a few people don't like this jacket and it's configuration. Luckily for people who want a jacket it isn't the only jacket choice.

again:

I see no reason for some of the vehement bashing of the TN jacket. If you like it buy it, if not because it doesn't support some of the current idea of the ultimate Raiders jacket, don't . It's simple.

Chris_King wrote:OK. If someone tells me that the jacket they are offering is an EXACT COPY of a HERO jacket from Raiders of the Lost Ark and when I see photos, it clearly ISN'T an exact copy, I start asking questions.

All of the "whinging" that has been done is purely because this jacket is not what it's being claimed to be. If it was truly an exact replica, I would not be having this discussion and would eagerly be awaiting the arrival of my jacket from TN.

Like I said, I desperately wanted this to be "it" but very clearly to me (and a few others) it's not right and I would like to know WHY it's not right.

I'm sorry if you don't like these questions that are being asked but in my opinion they NEED to be asked.

Chris

RCSignals wrote:I really don't understand all the whinging.

I get that a few people don't like this jacket and it's configuration. Luckily for people who want a jacket it isn't the only jacket choice.

again:

I see no reason for some of the vehement bashing of the TN jacket. If you like it buy it, if not because it doesn't support some of the current idea of the ultimate Raiders jacket, don't . It's simple.

I suppose then that since none of what has been posted in this long thread is satisfactory, you should give TN a phone call.
Maybe _ as well. I don't know where else you can go to find the answers.

that is THE issue....the fact that it has been labelled as a hero-jacket replica......where in our eyes, it is not the hero jacket.

i've already accepted that and gotten over it. some others seem to have not. that compiled, with the price of the offering, have many of you already black-balling this jacket. that is definitely an individual's choice and no one can argue that. i went with this offering as i have seen how well the CS jacket is constructed....and if you can do that with something that has todd's specifications, then i'm in like sin. todds jackets are not flawless as that is not his expertise....he's darn good at it mind you, but TN makes jackets....period.

i am familiar with how hide is pressed to give a different texture....i see it all the time in faux snake, faux lizard, even faux ostrich. i do not believe this hide to be that unless someone takes me to the tannery to show me that the texture is indeed simulated and not natural.

i know that TN is treading on waters that float our sacred indy lambskin jacket....imperfections and all......but i think some folks need to chillax a little. TN believes what he has to be the hero jacket as that is what his sources told him.....why don't we take our arguements up with that guy then????

Indiana G wrote:..........

i know that TN is treading on waters that float our sacred indy lambskin jacket....imperfections and all......but i think some folks need to chillax a little. TN believes what he has to be the hero jacket as that is what his sources told him.....why don't we take our arguements up with that guy then????

Well stated. The findings will be interesting for everyone I'm sure.

RCSignals wrote:

Indiana G wrote:..........

i know that TN is treading on waters that float our sacred indy lambskin jacket....imperfections and all......but i think some folks need to chillax a little. TN believes what he has to be the hero jacket as that is what his sources told him.....why don't we take our arguements up with that guy then????

Well stated. The findings will be interesting for everyone I'm sure.

only if someone chooses to share the findings.

True. People like secrets.
They may end up being stated in the same way they already have been, I'm sure some still won't be happy. So it goes.

One thing I'm not following, and perhaps it's because I've never seen one in person, but how can the TN jackets be any better than something like G&B construction? I've seen several people say that the superior construction is one of the reasons they purchased the jacket. Does he use kevlar stitch or something made from alien technology?

I fully understand that is most likely incredibly well put together as friends of mine have even stated to me personally, but can it be better than what the top tier vendors have already given us?

Of course it's all about personal preference and how much you can afford or are willing to pay and that is absolutely fine. I just can't understand how it's anything else but TN's status in the Hollywood community which warrants the price, and that is completely fine and okay with me and should be with anybody. Nobody should knock the price. Bottom line. Tony charges what he sees fit and he gets it. Same as Optimo. You can get the same hats for cheaper but they're still backed up with orders for months. There is just no reason at all for them to drop the price. Would you if you knew you could get more? Of course not.

I know some may take this a knock against TN and it is anything but. This is a free market society and we're free to purchase as we see fit.

The TN Raiders jacket is a different story though. I agree with "complainer Chris" that we expected to see THE jacket which has many easy tells as Ford wore it throughout most of the movie. Any experienced gearhead can see them and TN is not an experienced gearhead. He's just not. Otherwise he'd see the tells aren't there and perhaps restructure his sales points of this jacket. We can see it's not THE jacket and we want to know why. Simple as that. It's not at all what we thought it was going to be and we're wondering what is happening? TN won't post or give out any info and I think until he does we'll continue to ask questions since this is a FORUM. These questions are why we're here. This is our hobby. In this instance things aren't adding up. Of course we're going to question it. Get used to it. it won't ever go away until the clear truth comes out. I'm sure some day we will eventually know. Time will tell as it has here before. Just not today.

I will say that if questioning all of this is just too much for you to handle then you're in the wrong thread at the wrong site. This is what we do. If you can't handle it then just be happy with your purchase and move on. Let the rest of us discuss this until we're blue in the face. That is OUR perogative. I would ask that any of you who are sick of this to just stay out of it then. Nobody is making you read this. I'm not asking anyone to stay away and never would. I just get sick of the "stitch nazi / whiner" comments.

Agent 5 that is a decent summary of where things are at. The TN jacket is empirically different to what is up on screen. This is not speculation or imagination. We are talking obvious and clear evidence.

I happen to like this TN jacket but it is just another version to compete with the USW or a G&B or a Wested. it is not the final iteration to take all our breath away.

Thanks, CM. One more thing I forgot to add is that I do not in any way think that TN is trying to pull a fast one on anybody here. I'm sure he was given a jacket or jackets to copy and is telling everyone here what he was told. I'm sure the jacket is a quality jacket and many here, screen accurate or not, will purchase it as some already have and thats a good thing. As I said, whatever transpired will come out sometime. We just have to be patient. All we can discuss is what we know so far.

One more thing I forgot to add is that I do not in any way think that TN is trying to pull a fast one on anybody here.

Yes, yes! Very important statement Jason!!!

I've been following this thread very carefully and I don't have the impression that people are trying to slam neither Tony nor _ for the wrong information they've been given. Both of them have invested lots and lots of their time and effort in order to bring us gearheads THE jacket and it truly is a shame that it wasn't to be. Tony wouldn't risk his good reputation by copying a jacket that isn't the real deal and then claiming that it was. And I don't believe that _ would risk his reputation of being the researcher that he is by supporting these fals claims over and over again. As with the ToD Jacket that Peter had in his hand and kindly showed pictures of, we can see that sometimes things are mixed up by accidents, in the rush after the post production of a movie or plain and simple by people not knowing better then what they're told. Noel obviously didn't believe the ToD jacket was the hero jacket, but looking at the pictures, and comparing it to the stills, it very well could have been. The same could have happened here. What was considered to be THE hero jacket, is nothing but an early offer from Leather Connesc. (that's what it looks like to me at least).

In the end of the day, it can only be in Tony's interest to have these concerns discussed by a group that has several years of expertise on its back. It is to protect his own reputation of not making false claims by accident.

I believe that - even though he certainly didn't need it - Desi could print out the thread concerning the Fedora in his possesion and that should be COA enough If it wouldn't be the way it is, he could have made serious claims against whoever sold this hat to him. So even a negative feedback can be one heck of a support and that shouldn't be forgotton when people like Chris, Agent5 and - somewhere long, long way down the road - many others incl. myself are questioning a piece of gear. It's not about being in one camp or the other. It's about getting better and better with each year that passes and thereby protecting BOTH the vendor and the purchaser.

Regards,

Marc

Chris_King wrote:I think you're missing the point.
If TN had access to THE Hero jacket, shouldn't the replica appear to be exactly like THE Hero jacket? I'm not in anyone's "camp" but I can't help thinking that this experience should have been like Peter's excellent Temple of Doom jacket offering. He showed us photos of the original, then he showed us photos of his replica which was an EXACT copy.

With this TN jacket, not only is the hide incorrect but the details, pocket placement, pocket shape, and pocket flap attachment are ALL wrong compared to what we can see of Ford's various hero jackets.

Even more startling is the fact that it appears to most closely resemble the David Hack Leather Concessionaries jacket and we have been told that one of the two jackets he had in his possession WAS an early Leather Concessionaries jacket.

I refuse to give a "list of variances" to TN because in my opinion, if he had THE Hero jacket to copy, I would not need to ask him to change a thing.

Sadly, there's no way anyone can convince me that jacket #001/888 is a copy of any Ford Hero jacket. I've done the research, I've got the pics, played the DVD etc, etc and I can't find this particular jacket anywhere on screen in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I REALLY wanted it to be. But it's not.

Chris

It's very hard to disagree with you Chris... ;-)

Indiana Strones wrote:

Chris_King wrote:I think you're missing the point.
If TN had access to THE Hero jacket, shouldn't the replica appear to be exactly like THE Hero jacket? I'm not in anyone's "camp" but I can't help thinking that this experience should have been like Peter's excellent Temple of Doom jacket offering. He showed us photos of the original, then he showed us photos of his replica which was an EXACT copy.

With this TN jacket, not only is the hide incorrect but the details, pocket placement, pocket shape, and pocket flap attachment are ALL wrong compared to what we can see of Ford's various hero jackets.

Even more startling is the fact that it appears to most closely resemble the David Hack Leather Concessionaries jacket and we have been told that one of the two jackets he had in his possession WAS an early Leather Concessionaries jacket.

I refuse to give a "list of variances" to TN because in my opinion, if he had THE Hero jacket to copy, I would not need to ask him to change a thing.

Sadly, there's no way anyone can convince me that jacket #001/888 is a copy of any Ford Hero jacket. I've done the research, I've got the pics, played the DVD etc, etc and I can't find this particular jacket anywhere on screen in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I REALLY wanted it to be. But it's not.

Chris

It's very hard to disagree with you Chris... ;-)

I couldnt agree more, Chris you point are valid and very understandable, and I have seen atleast 2 other RAIDERS DIE HARDS:P (Icons) make the exact same points, so its definatley not something one member thinks.

Sorry, I'll make up my mind after receiving more data. All I've read are folks (even 'icons') raising points, and instead of waiting for TR to respond, drawing their own conclusions, someone seconds the observation, and it becomes the 'gospel'.

I've given examples of this happening so many times by this crowd, and them only discovering they were wrong in their 'observations' when all was revealed.

In response to a comment Chris said to me yesterday (or was it the day before? ) about the difference between Marc's Alden sales and this jacket was folks saw Marc's boots then made a change of heart. True, but they literally hung Marc from a tree in his boxer shorts from the very beginning when he first posted his plans, and only the price. The price had them circling the tree preparing to burn him alive.....which is exactly how THIS thread started with only the discussion regarding the $999 price tag, and it has gone downhill ever since.

Personally, I will continue to 'wait and see' what the WHOLE story is. I believe we owe Tony that much, but apparently once again I'm a 'voice in the wilderness'. No problem. I've been there before.

Regards! Michaelson

If there's a voice in the wilderness, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

I hope so!

Regard! Michaelson

I fully understand that is most likely incredibly well put together as friends of mine have even stated to me personally, but can it be better than what the top tier vendors have already given us?

agent 5, g&b's make a superior jacket construction-wise......too good. she'll look new for years unless you really go to town on it. a new jacket is not "indy".....you've said that yourself. who can provide us a jacket that looks the part and is as tough as a g&b? thats what sold me.

i'm too old and stubborn to go through the sandpaper, alcohol, acetone route on a new expensive jacket. i'm done with that.

Indiana G wrote:

I fully understand that is most likely incredibly well put together as friends of mine have even stated to me personally, but can it be better than what the top tier vendors have already given us?

agent 5, g&b's make a superior jacket construction-wise......too good. she'll look new for years unless you really go to town on it. a new jacket is not "indy".....you've said that yourself. who can provide us a jacket that looks the part and is as tough as a g&b? thats what sold me.

i'm too old and stubborn to go through the sandpaper, alcohol, acetone route on a new expensive jacket. i'm done with that.

......forgot to mention, at the TN level with distressing and construction, magnoli is a heavy contender.

kiltie wrote:If there's a voice in the wilderness, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

Answer is: no.

thats a good one.

its very close to this riddle..

if there is a tree in the forrest and it falls down and if no one is there to hear it,will it make a noice?

There is a variation of that riddle that another member (I don't recall who) recently posted:

If a man says something in the forest, and there is no woman there to hear him, is he still wrong?

Jack

eazybox wrote:There is a variation of that riddle that another member (I don't recall who) recently posted:

If a man says something in the forest, and there is no woman there to hear him, is he still wrong?

Jack

According to my wife? Absolutely.

Here we go again.

TN obviously takes pride in the funcionality and wearability of his jackets. So much so that he has no business making screen accurate replicas of Raiders jackets. It even took several years worth of brow beating to get Peter Botwright to tone down his "off the rack" features to bring us a jacket that could pass for a Raiders hero jacket.

Based on what i saw in the pics of TN's "Raiders" (and even the earlier small pictures were good enough for me to go on), and at the risk of sounding redundant, I will get the ball rolling:

1. put some piping on the top of the pocket flaps
2. use vegetable tanned lambskin, with hardly any grain to speak of (notwithstanding the occasional ruffles ridges, which are the product of distressing anyway, whether getting yanked off the lamb, or scraped with a wire brush)
3. shape and place the pockets how they should be
4. and thin out that gigantic yoke...to say nothing of how the seems line up

That's really about it...We dont want to hear "Im copying the hero jacket BUT WITH MODIFICATIONS to make it DURABLE and FUNCTIONAL"

We might be crazy for wanting spot on Screen Accuracy, at least that's what I'm getting out of this latest offering....PLEASE make those tweaks and satisfy us crazies!

I'm sure this is a great jacket and will last a lifetime. I however think if an Indy jacket is going to go for sale in that price range it should be an exact replica of what we saw on screen.....be it Raiders, Temple or whatever..

As just a regular consumer I don't see anything in this jacket that I can't get for a lower price elsewhere other than being able to say Tony made it.

I don't really see how one can make one SA jacket when more then one were made and used and each one was slightly different. Seeing as TN apparently has 2 jackets to work with then he has to try and combine different features and "average" them out. The main thing I would say is that the choice of leather appears to be WAY off... to my humble eyes at least.

Michaelson wrote:Sorry, I'll make up my mind after receiving more data. All I've read are folks (even 'icons') raising points, and instead of waiting for TR to respond, drawing their own conclusions, someone seconds the observation, and it becomes the 'gospel'.

I've given examples of this happening so many times by this crowd, and them only discovering they were wrong in their 'observations' when all was revealed.

In response to a comment Chris said to me yesterday (or was it the day before? ) about the difference between Marc's Alden sales and this jacket was folks saw Marc's boots then made a change of heart. True, but they literally hung Marc from a tree in his boxer shorts from the very beginning when he first posted his plans, and only the price. The price had them circling the tree preparing to burn him alive.....which is exactly how THIS thread started with only the discussion regarding the $999 price tag, and it has gone downhill ever since.

Personally, I will continue to 'wait and see' what the WHOLE story is. I believe we owe Tony that much, but apparently once again I'm a 'voice in the wilderness'. No problem. I've been there before.

Regards! Michaelson

I agree completely

Screen Accuracy gets more elusive when there is more than one hero jacket in question, but the pocket piping and the thin-ish yoke appear fairly consistantly throughout the film.

Take a look at the pictures again. If the top shoulder seam is centered on the shoulder that back yoke is narrow or 'thin'. Look at the distance from the shoulder seam to the bottom of the yoke. Any less and there almost wouldn't be a yoke.

Pictures of the jacket being worn and not on a hanger would show it better I think.

If what Ravenswood suggests is done, then you would get the Todd's custom jacket.

To be fair, I think the TN jacket has the Raiders collar down pat better than the Todd's custom, but I am not certain.

Hey Bogie, why don't you throw down for a TN Raiders and give us a nice play by play comparison?