Club Obi Wan

A random thought that I had: I wonder how much variation there is in the color of the DoD hats, both production used, and what's being sent out.

I've ordered two seaplane grey beaver felts from HJ a year apart, and one is visibly darker, and slightly browner. Likewise for two beaver CS train fedoras from Steve, and other various non-Indy hats from various hatmakers over the years.

Guess my question is how much variation can there be before it's considered a different color altogether?

sidenote: Granted that as my CS was worn in daylight, it could have lightened in color compared to a newer hat. But for least my HJ referenced above, it was kept unworn in a box for the year during the pandemic, so it didn't get a chance to be sunbleached.

Castor Dioscuri wrote:A random thought that I had: I wonder how much variation there is in the color of the DoD hats, both production used, and what's being sent out.

I've ordered two seaplane grey beaver felts from HJ a year apart, and one is visibly darker, and slightly browner. Likewise for two beaver CS train fedoras from Steve, and other various non-Indy hats from various hatmakers over the years.

Guess my question is how much variation can there be before it's considered a different color altogether?

sidenote: Granted that as my CS was worn in daylight, it could have lightened in color compared to a newer hat. But for least my HJ referenced above, it was kept unworn in a box for the year during the pandemic, so it didn't get a chance to be sunbleached.

That way madness lies. You will have slight variations in the felt colour in the manufacturing/dye process, so you may have slight differences as standard.

On the HJ Seaplane point they did a re-launch or improvement on that felt in 2022. I can’t remember it being called “storm” grey until around 2022 when they did all the marketing on the Special Edition SoC. Could that explain your difference in colour?

Gerry


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The Aviator wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:30 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote:A random thought that I had: I wonder how much variation there is in the color of the DoD hats, both production used, and what's being sent out.

I've ordered two seaplane grey beaver felts from HJ a year apart, and one is visibly darker, and slightly browner. Likewise for two beaver CS train fedoras from Steve, and other various non-Indy hats from various hatmakers over the years.

Guess my question is how much variation can there be before it's considered a different color altogether?

sidenote: Granted that as my CS was worn in daylight, it could have lightened in color compared to a newer hat. But for least my HJ referenced above, it was kept unworn in a box for the year during the pandemic, so it didn't get a chance to be sunbleached.

That way madness lies. You will have slight variations in the felt colour in the manufacturing/dye process, so you may have slight differences as standard.

On the HJ Seaplane point they did a re-launch or improvement on that felt in 2022. I can’t remember it being called “storm” grey until around 2022 when they did all the marketing on the Special Edition SoC. Could that explain your difference in colour?

Gerry


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Heh, I agree entirely with your sentiment. These hobbies tend to bring out my worst OCD tendencies!

And that's an interesting note about the timeline. Looking through my receipts, I did order the first seaplane grey in 2020, and the second one was indeed last year (not a year apart as I originally thought).

I remember that in 2020, HJ was making a big deal about color matching the felt to old stock they had from 80s(?), and I wasn't aware that they had further changed it last year. Interesting choice, wonder why they would do that unless it wasn't color matched well the first time around? Did they ever give a reason? Or was it just "new and improved"?

Just an FYI, the main site fedora page has just been updated (had to wait for Disney approval) with some interesting tidbits on the DoD hat.

We'll be allowed to share more here in the "members only" section than what we could on a public-facing page, but I'm going to wait until I complete Michelle's highlight page. I'm crafting one like we did for Steve since she's a member!

Mike wrote:Just an FYI, the main site fedora page has just been updated (had to wait for Disney approval) with some interesting tidbits on the DoD hat.

We'll be allowed to share more here in the "members only" section than what we could on a public-facing page, but I'm going to wait until I complete Michelle's highlight page. I'm crafting one like we did for Steve since she's a member!

Really cool stuff! Can’t wait to read more about it.


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Mike wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:53 am Just an FYI, the main site fedora page has just been updated (had to wait for Disney approval) with some interesting tidbits on the DoD hat.

We'll be allowed to share more here in the "members only" section than what we could on a public-facing page, but I'm going to wait until I complete Michelle's highlight page. I'm crafting one like we did for Steve since she's a member!

That’s a good update! Thank you! Looking forward to hearing more when the time is right!

Since this thread is pretty dead, I suppose it's fair to assume that no one here has recieved any new DoD fedoras since the first couple reviews?

Can't imagine how many orders HJ must have received in the first couple days when the DoD fedora went live

I bought mine at the end of June and they were estimating 6 months, so if I’m lucky should have that and a LC Deep Sable Rabbit by Christmas.

Gerry


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Castor Dioscuri wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 7:35 am Since this thread is pretty dead, I suppose it's fair to assume that no one here has recieved any new DoD fedoras since the first couple reviews?

Can't imagine how many orders HJ must have received in the first couple days when the DoD fedora went live

For what it's worth, I'm curious to read reviews from people and see pics of the hats, so I hope this thread doesn't die.

I've owned several fedoras over the years, but never a Herbert Johnson since they are really expensive. One day I'd like to order one though, but most likely I'll look for a Crusade design. That said, I like the look in Dial of Destiny—except maybe in the 1944 sequence. However I'm not sure if that's due to bad CG or whether there was something wrong with the actual hat. The 1969 hat I think looks gorgeous.

The Aviator wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 10:15 am I bought mine at the end of June and they were estimating 6 months, so if I’m lucky should have that and a LC Deep Sable Rabbit by Christmas.

Gerry


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I'm a bit hopeful that it may arrive sooner for you, since HJ states that it "may take up to six months," and it looks like for a few of the early orders, they were well under that 6 months!

Liberance wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:36 pm That said, I like the look in Dial of Destiny—except maybe in the 1944 sequence. However I'm not sure if that's due to bad CG or whether there was something wrong with the actual hat. The 1969 hat I think looks gorgeous.

From Indygear's fedora writeup:

"In June of 2023, Joanna Johnston oversaw a display in Herbert Johnson's showroom, highlighting a Ford-worn, screen-used fedora from the 1944 sequences. Michelle noticed that the numbering of it indicated it wasn't Ford's size. During production, Ford's size requirements had altered and he switched to needing a smaller and tighter-fitting hat. With Ford's long oval head stretching a smaller-sized hat produced a distinctive swoop seen in the brim in various opening shots."

Take it for what it's worth, but sounds like Ford just wore a smaller size that caused the hat to get all wonky during those scenes. Perhaps due to the more action-heavy nature of the prologue?

Castor Dioscuri wrote: ↑Sat Aug 26, 2023 1:46 pmFrom Indygear's fedora writeup:

"In June of 2023, Joanna Johnston oversaw a display in Herbert Johnson's showroom, highlighting a Ford-worn, screen-used fedora from the 1944 sequences. Michelle noticed that the numbering of it indicated it wasn't Ford's size. During production, Ford's size requirements had altered and he switched to needing a smaller and tighter-fitting hat. With Ford's long oval head stretching a smaller-sized hat produced a distinctive swoop seen in the brim in various opening shots."

Take it for what it's worth, but sounds like Ford just wore a smaller size that caused the hat to get all wonky during those scenes. Perhaps due to the more action-heavy nature of the prologue?

Interesting, I hadn't noticed they updated the hat page. But then, so, Ford switched to needing a smaller hat? What? Are we supposed to believe his head got smaller? Those sequences were also shot before a lot of others set in 1969 where the hat looks fine, so that leaves me even more confused.

The instances I'm thinking about in 1944 are shots like the trailer close up when he comes out of a train car under a flash of lightning (or whatever the blue light was). There the hat just looks plain weird. I'd be curious to see the original footage with current-age Ford for that one. Other times, like his turn around inside the train while talking to Basil the first time he puts on the gear, the hat looks like it sits far too low on his head with a wider-than-normal brim. For that one, a behind the scenes look already revealed the original footage with older Ford, and the hat looked just as odd on him. Yet still, much better then this other shot I'm talking about for sure.

Yeah I thought exactly the same. It’s frustrating because the hat in the Tangier scenes looks absolutely perfect Indy.

I would LOVE to see very good, high resolution pics of a HJ DOD fedora next to a known HJ (Either sable or the new dark sable) in natural daylight, or even multiple lighting conditions. I still can’t really tell if I like it or not, and it’s kinda driving me nuts.

Johnny

Check out this video by Michelle showcasing the different Indy hats. It's lighter than I had first thought it looked in some of the pics, I'll be interested to see how it looks compared to my AB raiders in beaver .
https://youtu.be/2SvAxin9Kss?si=Y61NqSAlMorBn_dO

Thanks for posting that.

I really like the DoD nutmeg felt color, but don't care for the ribbon color. Not enough contrast to my eye.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Johnny Fedora wrote:I would LOVE to see very good, high resolution pics of a HJ DOD fedora next to a known HJ (Either sable or the new dark sable) in natural daylight, or even multiple lighting conditions. I still can’t really tell if I like it or not, and it’s kinda driving me nuts.

Johnny

Once my DoD comes I can do that - Have a Raiders Sable Beaver, Young Indy Deep Sable Rabbit, and a LC Deep Sable Rabbit coming with my DoD.

Gerry


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That would be great to see.
Have they said which hat from DoD their retail one represents? There seem to be several different shapes through the film to my eye.

Thunderspy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 2:41 am That would be great to see.
Have they said which hat from DoD their retail one represents? There seem to be several different shapes through the film to my eye.

For our site interview, Michelle told me that once they nailed the look of the hat, they were all built to the same specs. At one point Ford needed a tighter fitting hat and to her it looks like his long oval head stretching a non-long oval hat that they picked from their stock. This is the hat that HJ has on display in their storefront.

I'm still working up her highlight page (which is proving a bit tougher than writing specs for the main site—and with "real life" interfering) but I'm hoping to have it done shortly and approved by her and Disney to post.

Mike wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:40 am

Thunderspy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 2:41 am That would be great to see.
Have they said which hat from DoD their retail one represents? There seem to be several different shapes through the film to my eye.

For our site interview, Michelle told me that once they nailed the look of the hat, they were all built to the same specs. At one point Ford needed a tighter fitting hat and to her it looks like his long oval head stretching a non-long oval hat that they picked from their stock. This is the hat that HJ has on display in their storefront.

Well I guess if she said that that's fine, but I'd say something like the Tangier hat looks different to the Sicily one: it looks somehow bigger in Sicily to me. Maybe it was tighter in the Tangier bits perhaps, but it looks its best fit there to me.

That video is indeed really helpful for getting a better idea of the color differences. I like how vibrant, although lighter, Nutmeg appears to be, and seeing it next to the LC in Deep Sable you could almost get the impression that it is meant as a slightly faded variant.
I am repeating myself but I definitely like the DoD hat

Indiana Jeff wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:13 pm Thanks for posting that.

I really like the DoD nutmeg felt color, but don't care for the ribbon color. Not enough contrast to my eye.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I get that, I think some of it is depending on lighting. In some pictures the ribbon looks to blend with the hat or reflect a light brown color. But in several images from the movie and other sources it has that dark contrast we all love . I'm hoping that is has that traditional indy look in person and in natural lighting. I'll post some pics when mine arrives

^This! All of it. I like the hat, but that lack of any appreciable contrast between the hat and the ribbon is really making me twitchy. And while the video is nice, the lighting is not great. Really just need to see this fedora in various lighting scenarios to get a feel for the way the thing really looks in person. Part of me reallllllllly wants to like this hat, but another part of me is like “why oh why did Michelle use a ribbon that’s very nearly the same color as the hat?” On one hand, I dig the evolution of Indy’s look, BUT it’s not like the Poet as it was, was unavailable in the late 1960s, just ask George Harrison in The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour. He’s wearing the familiar Poet in that film.

Johnny

Funnily enough a few weeks ago I tried on an HJ Poet which was owned by the ex-producer of Doctor Who, likely to have been worn by Tom Baker as the Doctor!

Philip Hinchcliffe?

John Nathan Turner. I don't know if it was a screen-used or not, but you'd imagine he wouldn't have too many HJs about the house It was surprisingly small in the crown, huge in the brim!

Johnny Fedora wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:52 pm ^This! All of it. I like the hat, but that lack of any appreciable contrast between the hat and the ribbon is really making me twitchy. And while the video is nice, the lighting is not great. Really just need to see this fedora in various lighting scenarios to get a feel for the way the thing really looks in person. Part of me reallllllllly wants to like this hat, but another part of me is like “why oh why did Michelle use a ribbon that’s very nearly the same color as the hat?” On one hand, I dig the evolution of Indy’s look, BUT it’s not like the Poet as it was, was unavailable in the late 1960s, just ask George Harrison in The Beatles Magical Mystery Tour. He’s wearing the familiar Poet in that film.

Johnny

Perhaps they chose the felt because it looked like a faded Indy hat (as Tremolo pointed out), and by extension, the ribbon would be similarly chosen to look like a faded ribbon on an overall sun bleached hat.

I think it was a good costuming choice, IMO. The above aside, having more muted colors on his fedora complimented Ford's aging features. It overall looks alot more forgiving on Ford than a more contrasting ribbon and felt, which would just look a bit too stark against his older features.

On an unrelated note, anyone else think Michelle seems to have drastically different hair in each video? Barely recognize her from video to video.

Yeah I think the reason for tweaks to the costume would very likely have been in order to suit Ford as he is now (although I guess that doesn't quite explain why the prologue costume looks off!). I tend to think the more tapering hat is most likely because he's lost a bit of weight in the face and neck so the old one may have looked a little top-heavy on him.
I remember the producer of Mission Impossible saying that they decide on Tom Cruise's ever-changing hair length in those films based on the shape that Cruise is in at the time, and they tailor it accordingly: so I can imagine that a great big hat would make even more difference!

I wonder if Harrison’s injury caused a significant enough delay that the hats had to change?

Johnny

Johnny Fedora wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:55 pm I wonder if Harrison’s injury caused a significant enough delay that the hats had to change?

Johnny

In what way?

Johnny Fedora wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:55 pmI wonder if Harrison’s injury caused a significant enough delay that the hats had to change?

That's the supposition. Recovery time/loss of weight changing head/hat size a bit.

Mike wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:32 am

Johnny Fedora wrote: ↑Wed Sep 06, 2023 8:55 pmI wonder if Harrison’s injury caused a significant enough delay that the hats had to change?

That's the supposition. Recovery time/loss of weight changing head/hat size a bit.

Still makes you wonder why he needed the smaller hat since his head stretched it enough that the brim became wonky due to being too small

I do think that he seems to look noticeably fitter, and even younger, in the interview in the Making Doc than he does in the film(!), so the explanation about recovery from his injury may well be right.

dkjamerson wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 9:25 amStill makes you wonder why he needed the smaller hat since his head stretched it enough that the brim became wonky due to being too small

A long-oval head in an regular oval hat.

Same reason I don't fully buy the 'on purpose' turned hat theory. My original HJ has the same swooping look being too small on my big noggin'.

Thunderspy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:20 pmI do think that he seems to look noticeably fitter, and even younger, in the interview in the Making Doc than he does in the film(!), so the explanation about recovery from his injury may well be right.

Agreed. When I lost weight, I also lost circumference in my head. Hats were a bit looser. Now that I'm back up in weight (and wanting to diet again!), they're back to being tighter.

Got some good news my DoD Special Edition and a new LC are due in the next week or so, that’s about 12 weeks-ish from placing the order.

I’m collecting them from the new flagship shop on New Bond Street, I’ll get some pictures.

Gerry


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They must be on a roll, I just got notified I'll be recieving mine by the end of the week!

For what it's worth, I ordered mine at the very beginning of July, so that might hopefully give folks a very rough idea of where they're at with their orders.

Castor Dioscuri wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:14 pm They must be on a roll, I just got notified I'll be recieving mine by the end of the week!

For what it's worth, I ordered mine at the very beginning of July, so that might hopefully give folks a very rough idea of where they're at with their orders.

That's exciting! I ordered mine on July 3rd so I'm hoping for a notification that its on its way soon!

dkjamerson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 30, 2023 10:16 am

Castor Dioscuri wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 6:14 pm They must be on a roll, I just got notified I'll be recieving mine by the end of the week!

For what it's worth, I ordered mine at the very beginning of July, so that might hopefully give folks a very rough idea of where they're at with their orders.

That's exciting! I ordered mine on July 3rd so I'm hoping for a notification that its on its way soon!

Hang in there, at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if you get an announcement in the next two weeks!

Well, I absolutely love what HJ has done with the DoD fedora! I always preferred stiffer hats, and their DoD is almost western weight!

They've definitely improved the way they pack their fedoras for shipping compared to the last few fedoras I received from them. It came very carefully wrapped, with a foam ring around the crown, and a bubble wrap "seat-belt" securing the fedora to the box. Maybe it's because they went all out with stiffener, but whatever the case, the presentation alone was worth the price increase, IMO.

As for the fedora itself, I'm shocked at how good it looks, and very much identical to the teaser poster image. This was one of the very, very few fedoras that I didn't have to fiddle with the brim to get it to sit right. Usually with new fedoras, they usually arrive with brims too flat for my taste. Not this though, it had a beautiful curve from front to back, no doubt because of the stiffener helping it survive the long transit.

The only one minor issue I see with this fedora is that the pinch sits ever so slightly off center. Luckily for me, it's not really a problem as I prefer my hats to sit askew, but I could see how this would be an issue for someone with OCD.

I love the design overall though, as it is a much more forgiving take on the Indy fedora. With Raiders, for example, it's so striking that it almost requires you to dress around it. With the subdued pinch and softer angles of this fedora (my own opinion, anyway), it is a much more complementary hat. More of a sidekick to you than the main character, if you will!

And I guess all of these must come with a certificate... Mine did, and I got the regular version. But I love it so much that I might splurge for the deluxe later this year when I pop by London. It's just too bad they don't sign their sweatband (or at least I didn't see one on mine)...

Castor Dioscuri wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 11:20 pm
I love the design overall though, as it is a much more forgiving take on the Indy fedora. With Raiders, for example, it's so striking that it almost requires you to dress around it. With the subdued pinch and softer angles of this fedora (my own opinion, anyway), it is a much more complementary hat. More of a sidekick to you than the main character, if you will!

Love that! This really sums it up nicely! Please post some pictures of your new DoD fedora, it is so great too see them coming in and it kind of helps with the waiting

Finally got the notification that my hj dod is on its way! I will get some pictures taken and posted once it's in!

I just passed the 5 month mark on the wait list, hopefully I’ll be soon!

Although I am thinking I might ask if they could treat the felt like they would a Raiders, meaning less stiff. I like my hats soft and smooth. Think they would do that for a DoD?

Michelle is very easy to ask questions to, for sure, and I'm sure she'd be happy to fix the hat exactly as you wanted it, although I'd caution that maybe it's better, if you order a DoD "special" hat, to get the one with the same make up as the film one? Otherwise, I mean, for me, what's the point? You could buy a non special edition hat and save the cash?

Still, I'm sure she'd be happy to work your hat exactly as you require it, yeah..

Speaking of Michelle...we've had a highlight story on her since October but we've had trouble adjusting the menu for it.

You can find the highlight here: https://www.indygear.com/ighjstory.html

...and if anyone knows coding and is willing to help fix the menu, give me a shout.

So it sounds like some. Of have received your hats.
Any pictures

I’ve been chatting with Thomas and while he’s sourced the felt, not the ribbon, seems it’s to light for his taste.
I’d like to see some actual hats to judge.

Croft

fifthchamber wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:37 pm Michelle is very easy to ask questions to, for sure, and I'm sure she'd be happy to fix the hat exactly as you wanted it, although I'd caution that maybe it's better, if you order a DoD "special" hat, to get the one with the same make up as the film one? Otherwise, I mean, for me, what's the point? You could buy a non special edition hat and save the cash?

Still, I'm sure she'd be happy to work your hat exactly as you require it, yeah..

That’s what I’m currently debating with myself. I’ve never ordered a Herbert Johnson before (although I once owned a Magnoli HJ). So I’ve been on the fence of what I want exactly. A part of me wants the exact DoD hat. A part of me wants the DoD hat but without the stiffner. A part of me thinks that if I’m FINALLY going to get a Herbert Johnson I should just get the Raiders fedora! Every couple of hours I feel like my mind changes.

For what it's worth, if it were me and I could get a HJ DoD made by the same person who made them for the movie, I'd ask for a fedora made exactly the same way she did for the movie.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

jnicktem wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:15 pm

fifthchamber wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 10:37 pm Michelle is very easy to ask questions to, for sure, and I'm sure she'd be happy to fix the hat exactly as you wanted it, although I'd caution that maybe it's better, if you order a DoD "special" hat, to get the one with the same make up as the film one? Otherwise, I mean, for me, what's the point? You could buy a non special edition hat and save the cash?

Still, I'm sure she'd be happy to work your hat exactly as you require it, yeah..

That’s what I’m currently debating with myself. I’ve never ordered a Herbert Johnson before (although I once owned a Magnoli HJ). So I’ve been on the fence of what I want exactly. A part of me wants the exact DoD hat. A part of me wants the DoD hat but without the stiffner. A part of me thinks that if I’m FINALLY going to get a Herbert Johnson I should just get the Raiders fedora! Every couple of hours I feel like my mind changes.

Yeah, I entirely understand...It's a lot of cash too..I'd personally, go with the exact DoD, as Jeff says, it's their hat, so run with that, but at that price? It's ALSO vital you get a hat YOU want, and that's the hard part to balance...I get it...I ordered a Seaplane grey from them, and chose the rabbit, since that's the exact same as they made for the film, buuuuut, a half part of me is STILL thinking I should have gone for the beaver, even though it's arrived already....LOL....

We are mental.

Finally finally got in to pick these up, walk past Leicester Square and off to New Bond Street.

Honestly surprised at how much I like the Destiny Poet, it really works very well. More photos to follow when I’m out and about and get them on my head.

They were a bit shocked that I was picking up a Crusade and Destiny, happy Christmas to me!




Gerry


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Initial thoughts is the DoD colour and ribbon work very well, and the extra stiffener is noticeable.

Annoyingly, on both hats neither are initialled, which Michelle has done in the past and in truth I was paying for that with the Special Edition, you have the certificate but nothing telling me the certificate matches the hat. I expected initials and the number of the hat in the Special Edition run and a corresponding number on the certificate.

With the Crusade I wasn’t expecting Michelle to be the hatter, but I thought you would get initials and a date as I have on any other hand made hat…oh well.

Also, very annoyingly for me the liner is back to front on my Special Edition, that will bug me and even now gives me itchy skin.

Gerry


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