Club Obi Wan

Maybe look at the area marked with green here:

Indiego Jones wrote

And about the pockets, if you are looking for the most accurate Raiders jacket, you have to look the S&J jacket.
On every detail. (Except the S&J label, installed on the inside pocket.

Easy for you to say, when you are the only ones who have seen/handled the original jackets or are the sole recipients of the detailed jacket photos/info. It would be fair if we had also seen the same. And then which is "the most accurate Raiders jacket" would only depend on the ability of each maker to recreate it.

So please do the right thing and share the information, give us some time, and let's find out which is the most accurate jacket. I think the fans can only benefit out of this.

afalzon wrote:Indiego Jones wrote

And about the pockets, if you are looking for the most accurate Raiders jacket, you have to look the S&J jacket.
On every detail. (Except the S&J label, installed on the inside pocket.

Easy for you to say, when you are the only ones who have seen/handled the original jackets or are the sole recipients of the detailed jacket photos/info. It would be fair if we had also seen the same. And then which is "the most accurate Raiders jacket" would only depend on the ability of each maker to recreate it.

So please do the right thing and share the information, give us some time, and let's find out which is the most accurate jacket. I think the fans can only benefit out of this.

It was just a way to answer to your question. I'm sorry if it sounded offensive.
Yes, the patch pockets on the original Raiders jackets are unlined inside.

All the construction detail we've learned on our research, are present on each and every Raiders TRUCK replica we did.
(except on those the orderer asked custom changes)
If you have access to one of our jackets, you have all the answers.

We hide nothing, it's all there.

Best regards.-

No, not offensive at all, but it just doesn't feel right, for various reasons, to look at your jacket for the details.
I am not saying your jacket isn't good, it's great, but we 'd like to offer our version, our interpretation of the original, not copy your version.

For that reason, we will try to find all the available original info first....

Ah, and that's why IT BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!

But really, it is strange to have super significant pieces of film history in private collections. What is super cool about the Last Crusade jacket that Spielberg, Lucas and Ford donated to the Smithsonian is that the jacket now belongs to the people. The Smithsonian is funded with tax-payer dollars, and therefore its collections are accessible to all.

Anyway, thanks to people like Tony Nowak, the guys at Steele and Jones, Stefan Hills, and countless Indy fans who have obsessed over these details, we have incredibly accurate versions of the Raiders jacket now. Andy, the Relic Hunter jacket you make is fantastic. The jackets produced by both Steele and Jones and Bill Kelso Mfg are exceptional. It is okay for there to be differences between them. They are both outstanding.

Possible, shape, texture.

Look at the area marked with blue



I don't think any more confirmation is needed.

The only thing that still doesn't make sense is if you sold your company and got $4bn for it, why you need to sell your jacket to get like $50,000?

afalzon wrote:Look at the area marked with blue



I don't think any more confirmation is needed.

I don't see it, but perhaps my monitor isn't clear enough.

afalzon wrote:The only thing that still doesn't make sense is if you sold your company and got $4bn for it, why you need to sell your jacket to get like $50,000?

I don't get the reference. But why wouldn't a stupidly rich person sell something? There could be many reasons.

I see it yes. The blue comparison. Personally I think that's it.

The truck jacket looks really similar to both the Hawaii and the Imam jackets. It would be great to verify if it is indeed one of them or a third jacket. Regardless, I think we can agree that the patterns and materials are the same. I do think what we call the Main Hero jacket did look a tad different, particularly its collar seems a bit narrower.

Again, seeing the photograph of the Truck jacket is really exciting. It completes the set of jackets for the original three films, as we had the Noel Howard jacket for TOD and the Smithsonian jacket for LC. Obviously, there are a few of other Indy film jackets out there, but in all likelihood, these are the best preserved examples we could have.

Please, pretty please, could I see the back of the jacket?

afalzon wrote:Look at the area marked with blue



I don't think any more confirmation is needed.

The back of the jackets must be checked too.

We couldn't find a grain match on both. (Imam's scene is indoors, very dark)

So, who owns the truck jacket? A collector who would prefer to remain anonymous, I suppose. Do they have interest in trying to match the jacket to either the Hawaii jacket or the Imam jacket? Certainly, a bunch of obsessed fans would be happy to help... I would think someone who owns this incredible piece of film history would want to know exactly which scenes it appeared in.

Not that different than when that screen-used Raiders hat went up for auction a few years ago... Pretty sure a bunch of fans were able to identify that as Streets of Cairo based on the distressing and matching it to screen grabs.

The back of the jackets must be checked too.

We couldn't find a grain match on both. (Imam's scene is indoors, very dark)

Then release the photo of the back please.
Otherwise how will we find the match?

afalzon wrote:

The back of the jackets must be checked too.

We couldn't find a grain match on both. (Imam's scene is indoors, very dark)

Then release the photo of the back please.
Otherwise how will we find the match?

I've meant through screen-caps.

we will compare the jacket's back taken from screen-caps with what?

afalzon wrote:we will compare the jacket's back taken from screen-caps with what?

You assume we have pictures of the Truck jacket to share.

This is Brandon's jacket
The one hanging on the truck grill.
https://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/59" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


And in this page, you see Imam's jacket back
https://movie-screencaps.com/raiders-lost-ark-1981/32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hi all

I thought I would chime in here with some additional information on jackets. I've been a member of this forum many years, though I've never been overly active. Indy jackets have been debated online for many years with a lot of bad information going around -- and I believe for some time, deliberately inaccurate information -- for whatever reason. Here's some information I can share:

The jacket shown at the start of this thread is in my collection and has been for some years. I decided it would be fun to share a photo online for the Raiders anniversary this year. I haven't shown it online previously though a number of collectors of original props have seen it. I obtained it directly from someone who worked on the film, and I'm confident it was never studied by Tony Nowak.

This jacket was used specifically in the truck chase, from shortly after he is shot in the arm until the end of the sequence. Some notes on that: when the actual squib goes off on the arm, it's a different jacket - it blows a large vertical cut into the sleeve that is different to the cut on this jacket. The jacket in my collection has a horizontal cut that is smaller, and is seen in close up when he's being punched in the arm. The jacket was also worn for the close-up shots of Ford himself (not Terry Leonard in the wide shots) dragging behind the truck - for that reason, the front of it has heavy abrasions. Additionally I have a BTS photo of this jacket worn in a pick up shot done at ILM of Indy (his whip etc) being accidentally burned by Marion's torch in the Well of Souls. I believe they just grabbed one that was on hand for this shot, and it happened to be this one.

Here are some images (apologies for the size):





The above 4 images show the jacket in my collection, note the horizontal cut in the sleeve.




While this cap shows the actual squib shot where a charge is blown in the sleeve (different jacket) and produces a vertical cut.


I do not believe this particular jacket was used elsewhere in the film. The majority of the jackets in the film are quite similar and it's easy to confuse them with each other. In addition to Blu Ray screengrabs, I have an extensive collection of Raiders production photography including all of the contact sheets for the B/W photos. I've looked hard, and I don't believe this is the jacket used in other scenes, including Imam's house. It's definitely not the Hawaii jacket -- Hawaii was filmed after Tunisia and the tear in the sleeve would be very obvious. I'll caveat that by saying who knows what jacket Vic Armstrong was wearing when he dove out of the temple -- could have been one with a tear in the sleeve.

One interesting thing about the Truck chase jacket is the tape visible above the pockets and down the sides of the back panel. I don't think all jackets have this tape, or it is more visible in some then others. It's quite pronounced on the truck chase jacket.

I have worked with the Skywalker Ranch archives as I wrote a book on Star Wars costumes. (See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFMUUCCb9h8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) At that time I looked at all of the Indy jackets in their collection. They have 2 from Raiders - Terry Leonard's jacket, which is heavily distressed (especially on the back) with small pockets, a "bullet hit" tear in the sleeve, and no label (perhaps it is the Bantu Wind jacket?) and the jacket with the strange scratches on the back. I can't pin those scratches down but this jacket is absolutely a Raiders jacket. I believe it's likely the jacket, or a jacket, used in Hawaii and got wet, and is distorted because of it. This one also has the tape above the pockets, as is prominently seen when Indy enters the temple. It also has no label.

The other jackets are from TOD and LC and have Bermans labels. The above are the only 2 jackets they have from Raiders.

There's a lot of speculation that Lucas, Ford or Spielberg are personally holding a jacket or the "hero" jacket. I've never seen any evidence of this personally and I think it's highly unlikely that anyone from the production team would distinguish a "hero" jacket. If Lucas had it, it would be in the archives. I had leads on two other Raiders jackets that were in private hands at one time -- one of which I would say was 90%+ likely a genuine story and the other I would put at 50%. I tried very hard to track these down but was unsuccessful (both original owners now deceased, and the families have no info) and they may be lost to time, or they could resurface in the future. One of these could have been the "hero." It's also possible that the "hero" was the one that had the larger cut blown into its sleeve during the truck chase. I know there's speculation about what Raiders jacket Tony Nowak saw, but it seems there's no actual evidence (photos etc) that he saw any genuine Raiders jacket. If he did, perhaps it came from the Skywalker Ranch archives.

I have a copy of a shipping manifest of assets that shipped back to CA from Hawaii when production wrapped there (I've shared it in the past, on another forum) and it lists 6x leather jackets for Indy. This is the best info I have on quantity. It's possible that in this 6 is 1, or even 2, stand-in jackets that are very different to the real Indy jackets. You can see Ford's stand-in in BTS photos and see he's wearing a different jacket; the Archives collection has 1-2 stand in jackets that are pretty different to the real ones.

I appreciate the interest in factual research around the original jackets and hope this is of some use. Here's a photo of the reverse side of the truck chase jacket - note the heavy tape on the back panel that I mentioned.



Best,
Brandon

Superb and informative post Brandon.

Many thanks mate.
MARK

What kind of buckles are those ?

Brandon, thank you. Honestly, really appreciate it.

It’s a fantastic piece of film history and so glad it’s held by someone who cherishes it and the movie its from.

Thank you, Brandon!

Seriously, this is incredible information that you have shared with us and sheds a lot of light on things. It was hard seeing this incredible piece without a lot of information to go with it. Just fantastic to get the full story surrounding the known jackets that have survived and to see this one in all its glory.

Cheers.

Thanks Brandon. Fascinating and greatly appreciated. Confirms my view on the Tony Nowak jacket and on the lack of evidence that your truck jacket is the Iman jacket.

CM wrote:Thanks Brandon. Fascinating and greatly appreciated. Confirms my view on the Tony Nowak jacket and on the lack of evidence that your truck jacket is the Iman jacket.

What is your view on the jacket Tony Nowak has? Jus curious

Brandon,thank you for great photos and info!

Heyjude7 wrote:

CM wrote:Thanks Brandon. Fascinating and greatly appreciated. Confirms my view on the Tony Nowak jacket and on the lack of evidence that your truck jacket is the Iman jacket.

What is your view on the jacket Tony Nowak has? Jus curious

The same view expressed by Brandon.

CM wrote:

Heyjude7 wrote:

CM wrote:Thanks Brandon. Fascinating and greatly appreciated. Confirms my view on the Tony Nowak jacket and on the lack of evidence that your truck jacket is the Iman jacket.

What is your view on the jacket Tony Nowak has? Jus curious

The same view expressed by Brandon.

That Tony didn’t have a screen used jacket or this screen used jacket ?

Heyjude7 wrote:

CM wrote:

Heyjude7 wrote:

CM wrote:Thanks Brandon. Fascinating and greatly appreciated. Confirms my view on the Tony Nowak jacket and on the lack of evidence that your truck jacket is the Iman jacket.

What is your view on the jacket Tony Nowak has? Jus curious

The same view expressed by Brandon.

That Tony didn’t have a screen used jacket or this screen used jacket ?

Brandon made this pretty clear I would have thought. Here's the sentence - "I know there's speculation about what Raiders jacket Tony Nowak saw, but it seems there's no actual evidence (photos etc) that he saw any genuine Raiders jacket. If he did, perhaps it came from the Skywalker Ranch archives."

Got it. Must of skipped over that line. Thank ya

Nowak must have seen one, his Raiders jacket was the most accurate piece (at the time) and as he worked on the 4th movie it makes sense he would have access or at least some connections to see a jacket.

Great picture Brandon, thanks.

Many thanks for sharing this information .. its always great to see new information and images come to light ... very informative ...

Also thank you more importantly for sharing it with Steele & Jones .. the fact i now have a Truck chase Jacket that looks as great as it does is down to you so i cant thank you enough for sharing ....

thank you again

Al

Thank you so much for sharing this information

Best regards.-

I personally have no doubt that Tony had access to a Raiders jacket. He got too much right to not have seen one. The shoulders and the way the back of the collar sits further back. The Raiders jackets he made had the look and fit in a way that no other jacket had nailed up to that point. Would love to see a post ‘em up thread for those who still own a Nowak Raiders so we can see them again with fresh eyes. I sold mine (in goat) simply because I preferred the lambskin on my Kelso so much more. Still have my Nowak CS though.

So we now know that there are two jackets that can be considered the truck jacket (worn by Ford).

Thank you Brandon, that was an awesome read.
And thank you for sharing these awesome photo’s of the jacket.

Can i have it.

hahaha just kiddin, I have no way of displaying something like this.
I love the truck jacket that S&J made for me and I wear it as much as possible.

Thanks again.
Stay safe.

Croft

Thanks for the above info, very interesting indeed. We hope your next book is called "Indiana Jones Costumes - The Original Trilogy". That would be something.

afalzon wrote:Thanks for the above info, very interesting indeed. We hope your next book is called "Indiana Jones Costumes - The Original Trilogy". That would be something.

Agreed

After 20+ years of Indygear we're still seeing new and exciting stuff here. Hopefully this will give the murky history of the jacket some clarity after many years of speculative rumors. Thanks to Brandon for sharing some solid info and to those who are still at it after all this time.

Brandon, is there actual tape still stuck to the jacket or does it appear as though there was tape at one time and it's now gone?

Its possible this was the problem being addressed : https://www.schottnyc.com/forum/posts/p ... roblem.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wested had some problems years ago of this nature and one sollution was to add elastic bands in back to support the pleat and keep it closed. This is why I ask if tape is still on it or if it just appears like it was. At first glance that was the first thing that came to my mind.

I thought that this jacket may have had that or a similar treatment. Look at the pleat and how it bends in one spot. Notice also that the arm seam doesn't meet the yoke seam.

I can't speak for Brandon's jacket but fabric tape glued to the inside of a leather jacket is a common thing to help reinforce an area, give it more body and make it easier to work with. It looks like the Indy jackets were put together (perhaps swiftly) with not a huge amount of manufacturing care, including, it seems, the use of a thin and inadequate synthetic lining.

CM wrote: with not a huge amount of manufacturing care, including, it seems, the use of a thin and inadequate synthetic lining.

You have to remember these jackets were made to be used in a movie, once, and that's all.

That bend is not elastic, just the pull of having his arm so far forward. Happens on every Indy jacket that is cinched tight and fits fairly close (well, every one constructed correctly).

agent5 wrote:After 20+ years of Indygear we're still seeing new and exciting stuff here. Hopefully this will give the murky history of the jacket some clarity after many years of speculative rumors. Thanks to Brandon for sharing some solid info and to those who are still at it after all this time.

Brandon, is there actual tape still stuck to the jacket or does it appear as though there was tape at one time and it's now gone?

Its possible this was the problem being addressed :

Wested had some problems years ago of this nature and one sollution was to add elastic bands in back to support the pleat and keep it closed. This is why I ask if tape is still on it or if it just appears like it was. At first glance that was the first thing that came to my mind.

I thought that this jacket may have had that or a similar treatment. Look at the pleat and how it bends in one spot. Notice also that the arm seam doesn't meet the yoke seam.

So interestingly ......

i had a chance to view a copy of Raiders in hi Def on an 85 inch screen tonight and i moved it forward to the Hawaii Belloq scene outside the cave .. its hardly noticeable BUT ... in a few frames it seems a horizontal cut/tear in the upper sleeve is definitely visible and in one image a red discolouration around it. its certainly not the Squib jacket but could be one of the two that are mentioned to have the gunshot scar ... its feasible its been patched but its a really blink and you miss it moment .. i took shots on my iphone below ...

Cut visible



cut and Red discolouration



another view


Interestingly on second viewing the discoloured area looks like a completely separate mark further up but the black slit is also visible lower down .. is there seem to be two distinct areas the discoloured mark which looks too high up the sleeve and the black thin cut which looks to be in the right place and runs across the fold

xmasters wrote:

CM wrote: with not a huge amount of manufacturing care, including, it seems, the use of a thin and inadequate synthetic lining.

You have to remember these jackets were made to be used in a movie, once, and that's all.

X - I know that. However not all costumes for movies are so indifferently made. Take any leather jacket Aero has made for a movie. The Wested jackets were so badly made they barely made it through the movie making. In some shots you can even see the pocket stitching has gone and gloves are hanging out of the gap in Indy's jacket.

Stitching could have gone from the way the jackets were distressed and to be fair, not many movies wardrobe had to go through what Indys did.

I think it is a bit of both... construction of jacket combined with the stunts. I mean, it is made out of lambskin after all.

Hey, it doesn't matter to me that the jackets were inadequate for real world use. They looked cool. For me it is the idea of the jacket much more so than the fragile costume piece that interests me. But it's very interesting to see a screen used one at last.

xmasters wrote

You have to remember these jackets were made to be used in a movie, once, and that's all.

Speaking from a maker's point of view, no, the jackets were not made substandard because they were going to be used just once. The original maker made the jackets using the same materials i.e. leather, thread and lining that he was using for his production jackets at the time. There is no reason why to use lower quality, cheaper materials. The savings would be very minimal, not worth considering.

You have to remember that the jackets were subjected to heavy distressing and abuse. Any lambskin jacket is strong enough to endure regular everyday use and wear, and not this kind of distressing.

Oh I agree. I don't personally think the jackets were made substandardly. I was just putting forward the idea that general production for movies does not have to always correlate to real life, if one is to make accusations to the materials and craftsmanship of the item as CM was doing.