Club Obi Wan

binkmeisterRick wrote:Then folks on all sides need to calm down.

Yes, this is still a place where folks can review and compare hats. The problem is when members get criticized and pounded for being proud of and enjoying the hats they own simply because it isn't Brand X. Yes, there are FAR more options to chose from all along the scale than a decade ago. That is a wonderful thing. There are options for everyone's budget, taste, and criteria. But what I've seen change in the past few years is people's ability to be happy for those who are showing off their hats, regardless of the brand. That's where the "spiral" started, if you ask me. It seems to have changed in that one is not allowed to enjoy his hat unless it fits in with everyone else's opinion of that hat. Frankly, whether it's made of cardboard or magic felt, if the wearer is pleased with it and gets true enjoyment from it, everyone else's opinions ultimately aren't worth a hill of beans.

Being happy with any hat. That's a great thing. But that's not what really happened in the start. There is no way any DP is worth $500 and on par with a AB or mine. I think that's where thing fell apart.

I'm happy that batman likes his hat but I do not agree that it's on par with my hat.

The thing that has always been wrong is not that people can't give their opinion or disagree or debate a thing. To me the word GREAT has been over used on many items. I almost never want to use it because it is over used.

The beaver DP is better than the reg. DP but it's just a better quality felt and thats it and not the ABD felt. Trust me on that. I know where both felt come from and not even close.

Bruce Wayne wrote:

Hollowpond wrote:Just throwing this out there, but if the guy likes it, isn't that OK? he only said that he thought the felt came from Marc's felter, and he may or may not be right on that, but it seems to me that he just likes the hat. I never heard him say that these are super SA hats and everyone should own one. Just that he likes it, and in my opinion that is ALL you need.
I'll bet you rock the ess out of that hat, sir!

Thanx!!!

That is all I was stating-my opinion.

No problem! As to you rocking the ess out of that hat, after seeing that pic, I'll be #### if I wasn't right! Love your gear and fight the Ick!!!

Travis

This thread is an example of precisely why I don't post or even stop by COW as often as I used to. It just isn't fun. Everyone has a right to their opinion from the original poster to the guy who's opinion differs. I'm just saying this used to be fun for me. Now, I pretty much only stop by to see what is new in the world of Penman and Adventurebilt and to see some neat pictures of folks wearing fedoras.

Dave

It's threads like this make me smile at times, as folks are always saying the really rough area to go to is the jacket area.

What they don't know is there are strong advocates for any particular piece of gear and/or vendor in any area of this site and always has been. The hat section has been just as volitile as the jacket section in it's day. This is just a glimpse as to how strong the opinions are regarding one's hat is over anothers, and things can go nuts at the, well, drop of a hat.

Anyway, I like your DP, and hope you enjoy the heck out of it. That's the only important thing in all this.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:
Anyway, I like your DP, and hope you enjoy the heck out of it. That's the only important thing in all this.

Regards! Michaelson

That's all I was trying to say...

And that is what being Ick free is all about. Loving the gear you have and the associations and friendships you have made along the way to getting it!

Travis

Wow...I can't even believe I'm posting in this thread again but here goes nothing...

I am overjoyed that Dude loves his DP hat! Truly. That's awesome.

I had one as well and I still do.

I was never slamming dude's lid.

I did answer a direct claim that it could stand up in quality to an Adventurebilt or Penman hat, and that's all.

It would seem that many here lost the abillity to OBJECTIVELY discuss the individual qualities of these hats in favour of simply congratulating anyone on owning any brown hat. That's a shame.

Finally, it would seem that it's become taboo, to critique any gear including fedoras without jumping on the brow of people who thought that we could still discuss these matters dispassionatly.

This place is a shadow of what it once was, and I'll leave you with this...I'm not the only one who feels that we've lost something here. You may have noticed there are prominant members of our community who may not post as often as they once did. This behavour is one reason why.

Johnny

If you were more objective, there wouldn't have been an issue. Intended or not, your wording seemed quite condescending and pretentious.

Hang on a minute. Why are we jumping down Johnny's throat? He was defending his opinion. Is it not ok to have a difference of opinion anymore. I'm with Johnny on this on more than just the issue of hats. This is a forum to discuss Indiana Jones gear...not blindly compliment people on their gear even if we don't like it. Seems like those little league games where no one is keeping score to protect the children's self-worth. That is bull #### if you ask me. But, no one did.

Johnny is also on point when he says prominent members of this community are not nearly as active as they used to be because of this shift social discourse and behaviour. I haven't been here as long as some of the other members but I remember a lot of guys pre-CS posting a ton and now very few of them remain. I may not have been since the beginning either, but I've been here a few years and have a few thousand posts and a lot of time dedicated to this site but I just don't enjoy coming here that often anymore because of #### like this, which is not an isolated incidence.

Now, all that aside, the Bruce Wayne has an opinion about his hat and he likes it, even looks good in it. But, he also made a bold statement which many disagree with...myself included. Why is it not ok to have a rebuttle? One incident of a hat tapering in the rain the first time it was taken out (Which I'm not sure I believe, by the way. I would love to see some photographs of that.) does not compensate for the hundreds of other folks saying it is the best thing since sliced bread and vice-versa.

Johnny, you have been on point throughout this whole thread and I'm sorry you've had to deal with these shenanigans.

Dave

No, Dave. People aren't posting because we've reached one of those usual lulls right after the Holidays where there's nothing much to say. We hit this around this time of year, and right before school starts in the Fall....just like clockwork.

Regards! Michaelson

You've been here a lot longer than I have, Mark, and I respect your opinion and read every word of your posts that I come by. But I'm not talking about the usual drop in poster activity. I am talking about member postings, specifically those from before my joining COW, from the time I joined to now. I remember a whole lot more old timers on here when I first got started. Those guys stuck around through the time where there wasn't a new Indy film. I don't think it is just a dimmed flame, or whatever, due to post-holiday exhaustion.

Dave

I know the one's you're talking about, and I see them log in every other day, so they're here. They just have nothing to say, or are buried with work. I hear from them via PM or email regularily.

If you've noticed, though it seems I'm all over the place, I'm not posting as often as I used to either, and only in subject areas that interest me. I'm only posting in this one as I wanted to assure you that this is normal.

Regards! Michaelson

I log in about every day too and this is the most action I've seen on COW for a long while. I've already posted why. It's not a stretch of the imagination to think others agree with my sentiments. But we are getting off topic. PM me if you wish to continue this duologue.

Dave

Not sure how to even respond to that, Dave, so I won't.

Back to topic.

M

Wow.

Thanks Dave. I don't know what to say. You've said it so well. And I feel the same way. As far as post holiday lull...its nearly April. What holiday are we talking here? Presidents Day? I would NEVER presume to speak for Steve and I don't here except to say that were I on my computer (not my phone) I'd find and post the quote from him here in which he noted and observed the exact kind of behavior that Dave was talking about above. This is not new. But instead the normal mode of posting in this and other areas of Indygear.

Thank again Dave,

Johnny

P.s. Ok, more later...I'm going back to bed. I only looked in on this thread from the bathroom. Thats right everybody, this topic's been "flagged". Ain't technology awesome?-J

wow indeed.

Last I looked, it was still March, and folks are still posting what they got from their Secret Santa as of last week, so the Holidays are the same as they always are.....and with Springtime breaking strong here in the South, 'we' are spending more time cutting our grass and working in the yard than sitting in front of a PC.

All I see in this thread is the usual sparring all over a casual comment regarding a fur felt comparison. A tempest in a teacup.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Not sure how to even respond to that, Dave, so I won't.

Back to topic.

M

Not sure how I offended you, but that was not my intention. I'm not sure how you took that, but there was no mal-intent there, I assure you.

Johnny, .

Dave

No offense taken, Dave. I was just puzzled at the vinegar being thrown my way over something I've seen over and over again on every Indy site I've ever been associated with since 1996 (when Al Gore invented the internet ).....and folks thinking it's the end of the world when it's nothing but a normal phase of forum activity here or anywhere else in this hobby...unless you're at a location that discusses things OTHER than gear, which is not what this site was ever originally intended to do and be.

Heck, I've even been involved in discussions in the past at sites that proposed just shutting down a forum at the start of spring, all during the summer, and not reopening until Fall DUE to these lulls.

When there's nothing really 'new' to talk about, people tend to turn on each other, and that's never fun to clean up after the bar fight is over, and usually over absolutely nothing.

Regards! Michaelson

Just when I thought I was going to get some more sleep...

I think we're beyond the original felt comparison here, and this is as good a time as any to discuss what I and others feel is a change in the way discussions are handled around here. Mark, I may not have a really high post count, but you have known me for years. I post when I have something to contribute, and shyly, thats not too often as there are those who are far more knowledgeable than I in most areas. But when I have interacted on those board its been with (usually) tact and hopefully something worth saying.

I mention all of this to hopefully remind those who may not see me all the time of how I try to conduct my self on this board which I feel is THE one place on the internet that regularly treats it's members very well.

With all of that stated, how can you not recognise a fundamental change to how discussions are conducted here? I feel it has, Dave does, John (sorry for dragging you into this man), Steve does. One of our founding members and our statesman. (I'll find the post I was referring to as soon as I get up)

So yes, something is different here sir. I'm just not sure why.

Johnny

I'm sorry you inferred that, Mark. Slinging mud or vinegar or what-have-you, was not my intention nor was it implied on my part. Just speaking my opinion, is all. No one was or is a target. These are just general statements.

Dave

Nor mine. I just wanted to.discuss the situation.

Not the guy on "Jersey Shore"

Johnny

Sorry Johnny, I'm not seeing anything going on now that I haven't seen time and time again, usually at this time of year and right at school start in the Fall. Same old same old....and yes, I have complete respect for your opinions and posts, and always have. I'm just not seeing the 'snap shots' you are. I'm logged in all day long, and watch it's ebb and flow during an entire day. I see these trends every day and all year long, and have since this site began in 2002.

What I find so odd is that if this were such a 'bad place', why do we keep finding banned members sock puppet accounts in our midst, or folks continuing to talk trash about this site at other locations? Why should they care? 'We' must be doing SOMETHING right, or they wouldn't even bother! That's the irony of the whole thing to me. Why do they even care? Nothing has changed here, and until the owner/webmaster says differently, things will continue to be run just as it always has.

Also odd this would break out in poor beaverlids thread about his DP too! That's what the feedback section is for.

As to your remark about technology changing, Johnny, it hit me right between the eyes last year. I had taken a break during classes to run to the rest room. Once comfortably seated in a stall, my cell phone rang. Knowing I was alone in the rest room, I answered it. It was my wife, who was on a cross country moving trip with two of her sisters, moving a 4th sister from Oregon to Tennessee. They were speeding across Kansas at the time, and she wanted me to order the youngest sister a birthday cake at the local Krogers so it would be ready when they arrived that night. I wrote down the info, then it hit me.

Here I was, sitting in a rest room stall in Tennnessee, taking a birthday cake order from a speeding truck crossing Kansas at 80 mph! If you had told me that would be possible 10 years ago, I would have backed slowly away from you and started looking for a net to throw over you!

Thanks Dave. That said, though, I hope you can understand how folks could come to the conclusion I did based on what you wrote, or THOUGHT you were writing. There's intent, and then there's what folks THINK you intended, and that's when things go south. It's not the site, it's the mood of the membership at this time of year, and if you bother to go back through threads that were posted during this time period over the past 9 years, you'll find the same type things were said, and the same feelings expressed at that time. If there's nothing 'new' to talk about, then there must be something wrong....and that's when the 'what the heck did you mean by that!?' responses happen to innocent remarks in a thread.

Regards! Michaelson

Please, don't misunderstand me, Mark. I meant what I said. I think that unless you agree with everyone's opinion, you get shot down. Regardless of what side you are on, if you disagree, it's like stabbing someone's dog or punching a baby around these parts. I think my little league score keeping analogy was spot on. That said, this isn't directed to anyone in particular. It is just a general statement. If that makes some folks upset, well, then I'm sorry it is upsetting. But that is how I feel and I know others feel too. But, this is far from a "bad place" as you put, Mark. Why do I stop by here week after week? It's because I feel like some of the guys on here have become friends and I love to see what is going on in this community because of that. But, why don't I post often...see above.

Dave

I mean what I say too, Dave. I know what folks say on the outside, as it's forwarded TO me. I don't go outside the site myself when it involves this hobby.

I hear exactly the opposite from others as well, including comments regarding THIS discussion, so it seems to be a two way street, as usual.

You can read what I said above as well.

Regards! Michaelson

I'd hope its a two way street. Otherwise there'd be a clear right and wrong!

Dave

Wow,

You create a thread, one that is a repeat of another thread at that, walk away for a few weeks and come back to find out you created a monster....

At least it makes for interesting reading during the holiday lull. I wish I had the little smiley of the popcorn eater to post as this thread makes for good entertainment.

There is no place like COW.

AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!!

Always glad to lend my talents for the good of the forum.

Hey everyone, sorry I'm getting here so late!
(Takes a look around the room and notices several tables tipped over and chairs on their sides...)

Sooo... what's everyone talking about?
(Discreetly turns a table rightside-up... then uprights a chair)

Is it, uh... is it about how we're all, ummm... big fans of the fedora look and all the uh....the many sources, shapes & sizes, choices of material and price-ranges available to us nowadays?
(crickets chirping)

That was just me trying to give most of you a little smile... thought maybe everyone could use one (I really DID get here late, though...)

Sorry, Mitch. We've already stacked the bodies out back, and are restocking the bar as we speak.

What'll you have?

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:What'll you have?

He'll have a DP.

What?! Dr Pepper! Dr Pepper!!!

DID SOMEONE JUST SAY DP!!!????


SLOWLY, I turned....step by step....inch by inch....

DR Ulloa wrote:Hang on a minute. Why are we jumping down Johnny's throat? He was defending his opinion. Is it not ok to have a difference of opinion anymore. I'm with Johnny on this on more than just the issue of hats. This is a forum to discuss Indiana Jones gear...not blindly compliment people on their gear even if we don't like it. Seems like those little league games where no one is keeping score to protect the children's self-worth. That is bull #### if you ask me. But, no one did.

Johnny is also on point when he says prominent members of this community are not nearly as active as they used to be because of this shift social discourse and behaviour. I haven't been here as long as some of the other members but I remember a lot of guys pre-CS posting a ton and now very few of them remain. I may not have been since the beginning either, but I've been here a few years and have a few thousand posts and a lot of time dedicated to this site but I just don't enjoy coming here that often anymore because of #### like this, which is not an isolated incidence.

Now, all that aside, the Bruce Wayne has an opinion about his hat and he likes it, even looks good in it. But, he also made a bold statement which many disagree with...myself included. Why is it not ok to have a rebuttle? One incident of a hat tapering in the rain the first time it was taken out (Which I'm not sure I believe, by the way. I would love to see some photographs of that.) does not compensate for the hundreds of other folks saying it is the best thing since sliced bread and vice-versa.

Johnny, you have been on point throughout this whole thread and I'm sorry you've had to deal with these shenanigans.

Dave

Oy, let's not all jump overboard here.

My issue with Johnny's statement had nothing to do with the price of the DP, as some had earlier interpreted it. The issue I took with his statements had nothing to do with the target of his statements, or the little league mantra of everyone is a winner.

The issue I took was the way in which he stated his opinion. The original wording was:

The fedora section of this board are filled with reviews, endorsements, and purchase links for lesser hats that we would have originaly dismissed in our search for the best possable Indy hat. Christies hats?!??! Really?!

Now look, I'm not going to sit here and say that the Christy's is the most durable hat out there or that it has excellent craftsmanship. It doesn't. But to then turn around and say "It would seem that many here lost the abillity to OBJECTIVELY discuss the individual qualities of these hats." Ahem, where is the objectivity? The fact of the matter is, Christy's had nothing to do with whether or not Bruce Wayne's DP is or is not a "good Indy hat." It was a complete non sequitur, and the way in which it was phrased carries a strong connotation of condescension. The incredulity encapsulated in "Really?!" as if nobody in their right minds would want to buy a Christy's hat, isn't being objective. Well, some people DO want to buy a Christy's hat, and many members are quite happy with them.

No, I am not saying we can't point out the weird bow work that often comes on a Christy's hat. I remember one user posted an odd specimen which had a much lighter brown tacking thread which stuck out like a sore thumb on the dark ribbon. I'm not saying we can't point out that a Christy's shouldn't get wet. I'm not saying we can't point out the block has some taper. But objectively assessing the qualities of hat X or hat Y is not achieved by implying that those who have a Christy's are not somehow included for "our" search for the "best possible Indy hat."

Bruce Wayne wrote:To be perfectly honest, I was thinking I was going to have to come into this thread one last time & type in ALL CAPS that I like the hat & what is wrong with that. But the last few posts have changes my mind. I now have a big smile on my face.

In regards to pics, here in one that I had taken of me yesterday on the first decent day of the year

Mr. Selleck, that is no Ferrari...