Club Obi Wan

I will agree with Chewbacca that this is not about Tony. Riley is in charge now. From what I can gather from my conversations with Riley they are staying till the orders run our but all that said they are intending to close. Perhaps he didn't know a last call would bring so many orders. I know when he was at Mr. Olympia the Arnold Classic organizers were pushing for him to do that event in March. This may have given him a bit of encouragement to keep going. What I don't get is if you are not interested in getting a jacket or have a current order why do you care about what is going on? Remeber all thats been said about Riley since April and look at the jackets he has produced and how happy the people are who got them. Why would he do anything other than make an announcement and be done. If you want to order then do it if you don't then don't worry about it.

Once again, that's not the issue, Chris.

It's all this second hand information.

HE'S the one who dropped the announcement on our doorstep.

HE'S the one who needs to clear up the mis-information that he, RILEY, supplied to this community.

We have one person stating what you posted, and another saying he's just cleaning up old orders and closing the doors. Contradictory information, and all STARTED by the vendor in the 'first person'.

If he plans on moving forward, that GREAT news, but either refute his original personally posted announcement, or confirm. That's all that's being requested. Stop all this 2nd and 3rd person reporting.

Purely business ethics 101, as stated above.

Regards! Michaelson

Yep, M-I think Jeff expressed it perfectly:

If Riley has decided to keep TNO open "for good," though that's not what he's said in any of the direct quotes that have been attributed to him, then he needs to update with that information. To say, "I'm going out of business" to create a sense of urgency for customers, and then to change his mind without sharing is, from a capitalistic perspective, unethical business practices.

And, yes, people can contact Riley directly to ask these questions, however, Riley’s track record on responding has not been so great.

If any vendor, regardless of WHO they are, or HOW much they are charging, states they are going to close their doors, they are offering a "last call" for orders, then they jack up the price on the item, and say, "oh we'll keep the doors open as long as new orders are coming in..." Wellllll...then I think it's safe to say they are NOT, in fact, closing shop. Heck...ANY business is going to stay open as long as new business is walking through the door.

And I've got NO dog in this fight...wouldn't have ordered one at the 900.00 price tag...just too rich for my country-boy blood.

Regards!

Indydawg

Han Jones wrote:I will agree with Chewbacca that this is not about Tony. Riley is in charge now. From what I can gather from my conversations with Riley they are staying till the orders run our but all that said they are intending to close. Perhaps he didn't know a last call would bring so many orders. I know when he was at Mr. Olympia the Arnold Classic organizers were pushing for him to do that event in March. This may have given him a bit of encouragement to keep going. What I don't get is if you are not interested in getting a jacket or have a current order why do you care about what is going on? Remeber all thats been said about Riley since April and look at the jackets he has produced and how happy the people are who got them. Why would he do anything other than make an announcement and be done. If you want to order then do it if you don't then don't worry about it.

How could Riley not know a last call would bring so many orders? To get a TN before business closes forever, you must buy now! No delaying buying a jacket like we can for other vendors.

JC1972 wrote: How could Riley not know a last call would bring so many orders? To get a TN before business closes forever, you must buy now! No delaying buying a jacket like we can for other vendors.

Which is exactly the reason this thread was reopened. So our members can have an informed decision on purchasing a jacket from a vendor. I'd hate to see anyone spend this kind of money and get burned from it. We can only do so much to help everyone make an decison on the matter.

Tony had a thriving business. Suddenly he is gone and his estate, business, etc., all of this is suddenly thrust in Riley's lap. No one was prepared for this. No one inside the family, no one of his customer base could have predicted this. Clearly, no one saw it comming...? Now, still trying to put the pieces back together, etc., Riley attempts to take it on, and at first, he thinks it's better just to close it down. Many had hopes he would remain open, carry on the tradition and excellence that you had experienced. Having been there before, its like being caught in a whirlwind. You don't know which way is up for awhile. Heart feels like its been torn out of your chest. I bet some days he thinks he can do this. We can make a go of it. Others on the payroll. It would mean a loss of their livlihood in a bad economy. While other days, he might be thinking that it is better just to close down. End of an era. Better to put the past behind you. I don't envy Riley. He had HUGE shoes to fill. I guess what I'm saying is I can see both sides, to keep it open or close, and undoubtedly the struggle going on in the midst of it.

I fail to see the incompatibility between both having empathy (or even sympathy) for Riley in this situation and simultaneously requiring more concrete information from him when he's asking nearly 1300.00 for a product that's been represented as "only available for a limited time," AND "available as long as demand persists."

I feel for the guy's (and the family's) personal losses, too-but I don't think that excuses him from personal responsibility.

The only justification for a lot of people placing these "last call" orders at that astronomical price is PRECISELY the fact that he represented them as "available for a limited time."

Right or wrong, that's a fact.

Han Jones wrote:What I don't get is if you are not interested in getting a jacket or have a current order why do you care about what is going on?

Speaking only for my own part - I care about John, firstly, who seems to be getting an unhealthy amount of stress from this. And I care about my friends here at COW, and how they fare in their collecting endeavors. By design, this forum includes a platform for airing and discussing issues with vendors and products. Me caring is about me not wanting to see ANYONE get burned - customer or vendor. Make sense?

And that coming from a professional attorney!

It would seem likely that there is a very finite Market for $1000 Indy jackets. When the orders dry up the shop will close. That's what Rillie told me. Whether this is in one months time or six months time he doesn't know. I contacted him a couple of weeks back to cancel my order due to finances and he said fine- let me know if and when you do want to go ahead and if we're still open we'll do it then. My understanding therefore is that he intends to close when this lot of jackets are done. I would have thought that because the number of orders is so finite it's just a matter of when rather than if. As to his communications I have to say that his responses to me have been quicker than any other jacket vendor I've dealt with - wested, wings and magnoli and quicker than most of the hat makers too (John is very quick to respond).

There appears to be a very minute market for Indy jackets in that price range, as not everyone is willing to pay that for a jacket in the upper tier. And that is not a knock against those who do, but simply to say different strokes, etc. It's my understanding that he is charging $950 for a jacket made in CS leather. Most get a CS/LC jacket made in this type of leather, due to the hide color and finish.

Kelly wrote:

Han Jones wrote:What I don't get is if you are not interested in getting a jacket or have a current order why do you care about what is going on? Remeber all thats been said about Riley since April and look at the jackets he has produced and how happy the people are who got them. Why would he do anything other than make an announcement and be done. If you want to order then do it if you don't then don't worry about it.

Oh my!

If this statement is indicative of Mr. Barrie's attitude then it is no wonder things have come to a boiling point. This reflects a rather naive perspective. It has no place in business or any relationship relying upon mutual respect. I now understand better the frustrations I've been hearing offline.

That statement is indicative of MY attitude. Tony always said "It is what it is" if you a jacket buy one if you don't then don't. If it makes any differance to the people that are being "protected" from TNO here is what I am doing since I heard they were closing. I have ordered and recived a ToD in happy cow and a "unammed" jacket. I sent back the ToD prototype to get the SA buckles and my other Raiders to get longer side straps. I got 9 jackets from Tony and 4 so far from Riley. I have had nothing but good exchanges with Riley so far and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I can only speak from my experiance with them and it has always been good. Do I think they are going to close yes, but I don't think Riley would hose anyone. When they do close it will be on his terms. He only needs to answer to the people who pay the bills. If you are someone who has paid him and never heard from him again then you have a gripe. If your someone is just worring about someone else buying a jacket that you would never buy then just remember "It is what it is".

Exactly, Han. I'm getting a little weary of the "so-and-so owes us information" and lecturing the person on "taking responsibility" from people who have no business with the person at all. He does not "owe" anyone who is not ordering a jacket from him anything.

If you want to order a jacket, contact him and do so. If not, find something else to concern yourself with.

Han Jones wrote: I got 9 jackets from Tony and 4 so far from Riley.

Must be nice! I want YOUR paycheck!

100% correct _. He has a resposibility to those who ordered jackets from him.

Riley has not misrepresented anything. He said he was closing at some point in the near future when orders have exhausted themselves. There is nothing dishonest in that at all. He will do that. Just because he doesn't do it the way you think he should, does not mean he is misrepresenting himself.

Its clear the Nowak faithful won't be swayed, nor should they feel inclined to be, so we will end the "lectures."

As stated, this site's mission is to offer full disclosure for anyone who wants a title of "vendor" so members have the most knowledge available to either order or not order anything of their choosing.

The information is now out there in this thread for all to read. We will not allow others to speak for Riley on this matter, though to some silence speaks volumes. Especially when its reported that regular posts are made elsewhere.

If Riley so chooses to post a response, it will be accepted. Answers by proxies will not.