Club Obi Wan

Indiana Holt wrote:there are two but identical in pattern.

there is one version made for the world with facings and right hand zipp for ore real life street wear and the other one is for the COW fans. This will be with screen accurate left hand zipp and without facings. it will be a movie replica jacket.

Has this been confirmed? The last I recall, the left hand zip (and I don't recall if leather facings were brought up or not) was an option for COW members, at the cost of paying the full $395 as opposed the $295 like the rest of us. Has there been a change since then that I managed to miss?

-KB

PS. Hey Weston, how would you compare the color of the leather to the picture you posted at the top of the page, and the (same) picture posted on US Wings' site? The one on Wings' site looks to have been doctored, but I don't know what that says about the accuracy of the color.

Thanks for the explanation guys!
Even without the discount, that is still a great jacket for the price!
I may wait until I receive my tax refund and get one of these.

Kentucky, it looks like they dialed up the contrast a bit, but it is not misleading. Check out my album posted earlier, and you will see that alot depends on the light at any given time.

Weston

Just got this email, so yes there still will be horsehide. I'm glad because all drama aside, that's a beautiful jacket...

Yes to both of your questions.. We will have our American made Jackets made by my Business partner Roz Schott of SchottNYC.. Roz will make the Raiders Horsehide.. Striated Lamb here in the USA Union made without a facing… I will have the Raiders made off shore out of our Hero Cow and Calf this will keep the price down.. You understand Union Made will cost more and there is not a darn thing we can do or will do about that!
We are changing the name around on our site but George Lucas will name the Jacket !
What you see for the very first time is the Actual Neil Cooper Raiders Pattern.. We have never shown this jacket before on our site and felt there are a lot of good people out there that would love to see the Real Deal without all the spins.

Regards,
Sarge

Okay, this is starting to make sense to me.

The calf, as well as the currently available antique cow and striated lambs jackets, are made overseas and cost $295. These jackets will have a right-hand zip and leather facings.

The striated lamb and horse (and other options?) that are made in the US by Schott will have a left-hand zip, no facings, and cost at least $395 due to increased labor costs.

Right?

In my opinion, Schott is one of the Kings of leather jackets, with it's history of the Perfecto. It's totally exciting to think they are collaborating on making these. Makes me really excited about the American made versions.

SB

That's why I kept after David to make the COW versions here, sharkboy. That's the 'New Jersey' plant I kept mentioning all this time.

Regards! Michaelson

Excellent Idea! I've had many daydreams on my own about a Schott Indy jacket. Now it's a reality.

SB

Hi Michaelson,

I'm getting lost in the terminology of what to call these anymore...

Are all of the COW versions of the Raiders jackets being made in the US, including calf, horsehide, antique cow and striated lamb? And then, the jackets for the public in horsehide and striated lamb will be made in the US and the calf and cow ones made oversees?

Do I have that right?

The best person to ask that is David Hack.

The fewer individuals involved as middlemen in explaining all this, the better for all of you interested in, or in the process of ordering, 'the jacket'.

That's been the problem ever since all this began....too many individuals showed up in the information pipeline. Information is getting mixed and matched, and most of the time in the wrong combinations.

Contact Wings at info@uswings.com and ask directly. Ask David if you can share any answer you get, then do what was done above....cut and paste the reply here. That's the safest way to proceed. BELIEVE me!

Regards! Michaelson

That's a very handsome jacket, Weston. Terrific leather.

Beautiful jacket! I would be quite happy with facings, a right hand pull, and brass zipper. Too bad there will be no offering on Goat. Sigh.

Michaelson wrote:The best person to ask that is David Hack.

The fewer individuals involved as middlemen in explaining all this, the better for all of you interested in, or in the process of ordering, 'the jacket'.

That's been the problem ever since all this began....too many individuals showed up in the information pipeline. Information is getting mixed and matched, and most of the time in the wrong combinations.

Contact Wings at info@uswings.com and ask directly. Ask David if you can share any answer you get, then do what was done above....cut and paste the reply here. That's the safest way to proceed. BELIEVE ME!

Regards! Michaelson

I understand and have done that. I just thought there may have been more clarity available that wasn't evident in the response. Between the name changes, and project changes, I wasn't really keeping up.

Ick. Clean up on aisle 2.

Understood though. I'll see what turns up in the 'ol email box.

Don't expect much more than a fairly vague response, Tibor. US Wings seem rather reluctant to discuss just where these jackets are being
produced. I get the feeling they'd like to have us believe they're all made in the US. Never hurts to try though, and I'd be interested to see
what information you can uncover. Personally, I wouldn't pay big dollars for a jacket made in Pakistan.

I'd like to steer clear of that kind of controversy, except to say that I read the correspondence between Sgt. Hack, and Roz Schott discussing the production of the COW jackets. Good enough for me, and bad blood aside, I hope that's good enough for others as well.

I had hoped to see what responses and questions there were to my last post, but apparently I screwed it up and my post didn't go through. What I have are some more pics, comparisons to my Hero jacket, and Todd's Standard. I think most folks here will agree that the Todd's jacket is a very accurate representation of the film jacket, and you will notice some clear similarities to the USW Raider.





I do have lots of pictures, so if there is a detail you want to see, I'm happy to oblige. When I exceed the posting limit, I'll start putting them in the album posted on page 1.

Weston

For what it is worth, not all Schott jackets are made in the U.S., although many are. On their website, they even have a special page for "Still made in the USA" garments.

http://www.schottnyc.com/products/other/made-in-usa

That said, I own US made Schotts as well as my VIP Adventurers jacket, and I own jackets made "elsewhere", and have found that quality and country of origin are not always correlated. Good quality jackets may be found globally.

While I prefer keeping my money in the US, but if something I want is not available from a US source, I am willing to buy from whoever offers the quality I'm looking for.
If the USW Raider turns out to be from "elsewhere", it's not a deal breaker, as long as the quality is there.

Well said, ron. We were assured the COW jackets WOULD be made at the New Jersey factory and the general release jackets overseas, or at least I was.

That said, though, like you said above, quality is quality, regardless of where it's made.

Regards! Michaelson

I'd say that is the best looking Raiders pocket flap I've seen short of a nowak....

Hey this is a bit of a milestone, a 2-page uswings thread that isn't locked down! In all seriousness, let's keep up the good work as many of us need a lot of pics and discussion to make up our minds. Thanks for the pics Weston.

Scroll down further in this section. We got up to 8 pages before it all hit the fan last time.



Regards! Michaelson

_ wrote:
And, where it's made? Don't really care as long as QA is what it always has been. True to our hero, I am at heart a mercenary...

Agree. Nice when you can get U.S.-made, but if it falls apart, not good.

I just received an email from USW (as I'm sure most of you have) with Weston's pics here calling this jacket the Legend. And that its only available in cowhide or striated lamb. Gone are the pics of Sarge wearing the jacket calling it the 30th Anniversary jacket with offerings in calfskin, SL, cowhide and horsehide. Hmmm, I wonder what else is changing.

http://www.uswings.com/aviatn.asp#LGND

JC1972 wrote:I just received an email from USW (as I'm sure most of you have) with Weston's pics here calling this jacket the Legend. And that its only available in cowhide or striated lamb. Gone are the pics of Sarge wearing the jacket calling it the 30th Anniversary jacket with offerings in calfskin, SL, cowhide and horsehide. Hmmm, I wonder what else is changing.

http://www.uswings.com/aviatn.asp#LGND

Check out the rest of the thread... It still seems that the website refers to the general release jackets, not the COW product. It'd be best to contact Wings directly to ask about any specific details.

-KB

Kentucky Blues wrote:

JC1972 wrote:I just received an email from USW (as I'm sure most of you have) with Weston's pics here calling this jacket the Legend. And that its only available in cowhide or striated lamb. Gone are the pics of Sarge wearing the jacket calling it the 30th Anniversary jacket with offerings in calfskin, SL, cowhide and horsehide. Hmmm, I wonder what else is changing.

http://www.uswings.com/aviatn.asp#LGND

Check out the rest of the thread... It still seems that the website refers to the general release jackets, not the COW product. It'd be best to contact Wings directly to ask about any specific details.

-KB

Gotcha, my bad; I did not realize.

Well, just to chip in. It's gotten pretty odd in that, since we had a bit of a falling out, USWings doesn't seem to have a point person at COW to post communications (unless that's you, Weston - my apologies if I missed that). It seems counterproductive for all the interested members to contact USWings separately, and I don't expect USWings to post the COW jacket details on their website.

It's looking really good, and I'm perfectly fine to wait patiently, but sometimes it sounds like the COW jacket is now only available in Horse and Striated Lamb. I don't really care much where it's made either, but was more interested to know about hides and availability.

Anyway, since the end of USWings-a-Palooza, it's a bit hard to follow. I wrote to Myke as he's the only fellow with whom I've corresponded, but didn't hear back (maybe he's not in today). Anyway, as I said, if Weston has picked up a bit of that role, my thanks, sir.

Michaelson wrote:Nobody jump to conclusions. No one has said there still won't be 4 different hides.

Last I heard those 4 samples haven't been made yet, so only the 2 listed are available at this time.

Let's not start rumors....again.

Regards! Michaelson

I'm not really the point person Tibor, but I'll be glad to pass on any information that's helpful, or pass along a message if I'm asked to. Michaelson is right, there has been no mention of changing any COW orders. We filled out the order forms, and were told we would be contacted later. That's it, nothing has changed in that regard, so I'd say just hang in there and wait for your order to be processed.

Weston

Weston, looks fantastic! Great job with the photos. I'm really looking forward to the jacket!

That bears repeating: GREAT job with those photos, Weston!
Many thanks for all of your hard work in producing - and sharing - these photos...they really say quite a bit.

_ wrote: The accuracy asterisk is reduced to the zipper as far as I can see. Well done!

And the leather facings around the zipper.

But hey, it is a fabulous looking jacket. The ironic thing is, is that if there hadn't been any discussion or mention of this jacket on here previously, and Wings just unveiled this jacket, we'd all be freaking out in excitement.

Why they couldn't just say, "sorry but we are sticking with right hand zips and leather facings because we like them and it is our product," is beyond me. I'm really jazzed about the jacket, and I'm just sorry for all the ugliness that surrounded these discussions.

First of all Weston, thanks for posting the pictures of this new jacket for us. I see your now up on the US Wings site as well. I am just really confused right now, and maybe US Wings can clairify some of this if you guys get a response back. From what I have gathered from so far, this jacket Weston is wearing is $295. The one that COW is getting is a different jacket somewhat in that you can ask for a nickel or brass zip, and get it put on the left side, and hopefully SA as possible with no facings, and hopefully the collar half way on the storm flap for $395? The jacket I agree looks great, just I am not sure what us COW members are going to get. I am glad I canceled my order, but these pictures make me want to reconsider. I don't know, I think I am just going to be patient and see what you guys find out from Wings if anything.

IndianaChris

Weston wrote:[
That's it, nothing has changed in that regard, so I'd say just hang in there and wait for your order to be processed.

Weston

Sounds good.

I'm tempted to get one with the facingsince, for me, they improve the jacket. Only thing I dislike about my G&B is the lack of facings.

I'm confused. Some people are saying they are only offering cow and lamb with no plan to offer calf or horse. Some people are saying they are going to offer it, but only to COW members, and they will be made overseas with some modifications from the pattern on the website. Does anyone know who's right here?

the best thing to do is making a call or send an email to check.

Mark Brody wrote:I'm confused. Some people are saying they are only offering cow and lamb with no plan to offer calf or horse. Some people are saying they are going to offer it, but only to COW members, and they will be made overseas with some modifications from the pattern on the website. Does anyone know who's right here?

I'm going to have to re-iterate Holt and _'s suggestions here, ask US Wings directly. This thread is not intended to be the next source of answers about this project, but rather to show off Weston's Kick-butt example of what US Wings is offering on their site And this post goes out to EVERYONE

-KB

The jacket looks great on Weston. At first, I thought "whats up with the Elvis collar?" But the more I look at it and when its broken in, I can see the Raiders feel to it. I am not buying one as I stated before, but it looks great for you all. I hope you enjoy.

Cheers,
Gringo

Kentucky Blues wrote: I'm going to have to re-iterate Holt and _'s suggestions here, ask US Wings directly. This thread is not intended to be the next source of answers about this project, but rather to show off Weston's Kick-butt example of what US Wings is offering on their site And this post goes out to EVERYONE

-KB

Hey, I suggested it FIRST, KB!



Regards! Michaelson

_ wrote:

CM wrote:I'm tempted to get one with the facingsince, for me, they improve the jacket. Only thing I dislike about my G&B is the lack of facings.

Yep - while I know it didn't have facings, it's never been an authenticity issue with me. Don't now why.

I feel the same about the facings. My father's original A-2 did not have facings and it was a real pet peeve of mine when I wore it - the zipper kept getting caught in the lining. It drove me crazy. After that I was always quite happy with facings on a jacket.

I like facings, but can and do wear them either way myself.

None of my Expeditions have had facings, and I've NEVER had a problem with a zipper snagging the lining to date.

Regards! Michaelson

As a general rule ALLWAYS make sure that everything is clear of ANY zipper before closeing.

Indiana Dymond wrote:As a general rule ALLWAYS make sure that everything is clear of ANY zipper before closeing.

Ouch - instant memory of Something about Mary

Good important safety tip though.

Indiana Dymond wrote:As a general rule ALLWAYS make sure that everything is clear of ANY zipper before closeing.

Kentucky Blues wrote:

Mark Brody wrote:I'm confused. Some people are saying they are only offering cow and lamb with no plan to offer calf or horse. Some people are saying they are going to offer it, but only to COW members, and they will be made overseas with some modifications from the pattern on the website. Does anyone know who's right here?

I'm going to have to re-iterate Holt and _'s suggestions here, ask US Wings directly. This thread is not intended to be the next source of answers about this project, but rather to show off Weston's Kick-butt example of what US Wings is offering on their site And this post goes out to EVERYONE

-KB

Kentucky, thanks for that. This is purely about show and tell.

And thanks to all for the compliments.

Weston

Weston,

I don't remember if I told you what terrific jacket that is! How does that leather feel? I mean does it feel like it ready adventuring and working? Thanks for posting the gallery too. I think it is great help to compare jackets like that. Wear the heck out of it.

the naked cowhide is a super nice skin. rugged sturdy feel yet light and supple. and the smell is just fantastic.

is the neked cowhide as dark in person as in the pix?

it depends. the skin is hand aged, rubbed with oils and then baked in the sun.. so no two skin batch's are alike.

I think a lighter naked cowhide jacket could use some pecards or somehting like that to get some shine and darker look.

Indiana Holt wrote:it depends. the skin is hand aged, rubbed with oils and then baked in the sun.. so no two skin batch's are alike.

Okay, I have a question on this point... Does this apply specifically to the US Wings naked cowhide offerings, or is this typical of naked cowhide in general? Is this process what makes it naked cowhide, or is this what Wings does to their naked cowhide to get their antique look?

-KB

One thing I noticed with the antiqued cowhide is that any kindof conditioner, whether it be lexol, pecards, or getting it wet, kindof darkened the leather to a point where it lost some of the variations in tone and texture. I think the antique cowhide does very well on it's own personally.

not sure about the antiqued vs naked cow, but I think the Antique cow must have a special technique all it's own. it's definitely in a class by itself in my opinion.

SB