Club Obi Wan

First, thanks folks for the good comments.

Your bow work is very organic. That's the only way I can explain it.

I remember when you used this term on the phone John. I like the term actually.

I think that probably will sound unpopular, but my favorite CS hat and bashing is the grey one on train station. I absolute love how perfect is on Harrison. Don't surprises that Steven loved it!

You know, personally, I like that blockshape better than what was chosen. I would have preferred for them to use the gray hat block. It is still straight sided, has a bit more of a dome, and is a classic vintage fedora block. And that hat was 5 3/4 tall, open crown! I would have preferred the shorter crown.


Thanks Bink for the hard work. I appreciate it! Fedora

Fedora wrote: Thanks Bink for the hard work. I appreciate it! Fedora

Sure thing! Besides, those pics were too good to lose.

binkmeisterRick wrote:

Fedora wrote: Thanks Bink for the hard work. I appreciate it! Fedora

Sure thing! Besides, those pics were too good to lose.

My thoughts exactly!

Fedora wrote:You know, personally, I like that blockshape better than what was chosen.

Wow! That's great! Thanks again for sharing these amazing details of the story.

Steve,

We all know your favorite hat is the raiders hat, Just like most of us here. What is your favorite non-Indy hat?

DR Ulloa wrote:I hope to get that grey CS hat before he retires.

I second that emotion. The Train hat is just stunning.

We all know your favorite hat is the raiders hat, Just like most of us here. What is your favorite non-Indy hat?

Non Indy? Gosh, so hard to choose! I like several, but not sure which is my fav, past the Indy fedora. I like the classic Bogie fedora, with Cavanagh Edge, the Outback with exotic reptilian hat band. Those two came to my mind first. I don't like big brimmed western hats, but some of the smaller 3 inch brimmed ones are good, the vintage looking ones. The soft ones that used to be the rule rather than the exception. But, I don't like hard, stiff hats of any kind. If I want a helmet, I will buy a motor cycle helmet.

I thought I might like the Montecriste, in a fedora style, until I bought one! Just as hot as a felt hat in the summer, plus, you don't want to get this palm straw wet! Fedora

I really like that style western hat too. I've always loved the hat that Eastwood wore in the Man With No Name films.

Dave

Fedora wrote:

We all know your favorite hat is the raiders hat, Just like most of us here. What is your favorite non-Indy hat?

Non Indy? Gosh, so hard to choose! I like several, but not sure which is my fav, past the Indy fedora. I like the classic Bogie fedora, with Cavanagh Edge, the Outback with exotic reptilian hat band. Those two came to my mind first. I don't like big brimmed western hats, but some of the smaller 3 inch brimmed ones are good, the vintage looking ones. The soft ones that used to be the rule rather than the exception. But, I don't like hard, stiff hats of any kind. If I want a helmet, I will buy a motor cycle helmet.

I thought I might like the Montecriste, in a fedora style, until I bought one! Just as hot as a felt hat in the summer, plus, you don't want to get this palm straw wet! Fedora

Didn't want to derail your thread Steve. I was trying to be sneaky and try and find out what hat I could make for you as a gift.

BendingOak wrote:

Fedora wrote:

We all know your favorite hat is the raiders hat, Just like most of us here. What is your favorite non-Indy hat?

Non Indy? Gosh, so hard to choose! I like several, but not sure which is my fav, past the Indy fedora. I like the classic Bogie fedora, with Cavanagh Edge, the Outback with exotic reptilian hat band. Those two came to my mind first. I don't like big brimmed western hats, but some of the smaller 3 inch brimmed ones are good, the vintage looking ones. The soft ones that used to be the rule rather than the exception. But, I don't like hard, stiff hats of any kind. If I want a helmet, I will buy a motor cycle helmet.

I thought I might like the Montecriste, in a fedora style, until I bought one! Just as hot as a felt hat in the summer, plus, you don't want to get this palm straw wet! Fedora

Didn't want to derail your thread Steve. I was trying to be sneaky and try and find out what hat I could make for you as a gift.

Booyah! Point to John!

Dave

I was trying to be sneaky and try and find out what hat I could make for you as a gift.

That is sneaky!! Hey, I like that LC hat you made...hint, hint. Fedora

Fedora wrote:

I was trying to be sneaky and try and find out what hat I could make for you as a gift.

That is sneaky!! Hey, I like that LC hat you made...hint, hint. Fedora

I'm all over it.

Any specs you would want me to use for you Steve.

Fedora wrote:Here's the inside of one of the hats Bernie sent back for me to use as a 3 D model. It shows the European style white plain liner.

Just out of curiosity, Steve: I don't see much difference between that liner and the one from my AB (besides mine's got the Ra logo). Are other AB liners different than that, or is just some minor difference I don't see?

Just out of curiosity, Steve: I don't see much difference between that liner and the one from my AB (besides mine's got the Ra logo). Are other AB liners different than that, or is just some minor difference I don't see?

This liner is a side seamed liner. The seam is sewed, not open. The regular AB liner is a back seamed liner, open seam. The side seamed liner has paper, on the reverse side of the tip, to absorb sweat, I think.

I used the side seamed European made liners in Ford's CS hats. I used my regular liner, but plain white in the stunt hats. But, in the last scene of Indy 4, when Ford grabs his hat back from Mutt, that was a stunt hat, in Ford's size. I can tell by the liner. So, both the back seamed and side seamed are seen in the film.

I only had a limited number of side seamed liners. They were really well made and classy looking, and that is why I used them in Ford's hats. I was told we were to see the inside of the hat in the film, so I used these fancy ones. I had to order a few plain white back seamed liners for the rest of the CS hats. I can still get those, from my liner supplier. Fedora

Any specs you would want me to use for you Steve.

You are too kind John! No, just do it as you want, but give me 2 1/2 inches of brim on the sides is all I ask. I don't own a LC fedora, and I feel I need one! Hard to find the time to make myself hats these days. Thanks! Steve

I was thinking a somewhere like a 5 1/4 to 5 3/8 open crown w/ 2 3/4x 2 1/2 brim.

I was thinking a somewhere like a 5 1/4 to 5 3/8 open crown w/ 2 3/4x 2 1/2 brim.

Sounds like a winner my friend! It will be very nice to have a new hat too! And one that I did not make! Marc sent me a Henry last year, and I wear the snot out of it. It is easy for me to get tired of my own hats. Thanks. Fedora

I'm very excited about making this hat.

BendingOak wrote:I'm very excited about making this hat.

and when it's done please, pics, pics, pics!

Digger4Glory wrote:

BendingOak wrote:I'm very excited about making this hat.

and when it's done please, pics, pics, pics!

It's going to take some time because I will work on it a little at a time ( on my spare time). This way it won't take away time from people who are waiting in line for their hats. I will post pics of it when it's done.

Steve,
Sorry to high-jack your thread like this.

I love the CS hats. The best sequel hats. Basicly unturned Raiders hats, and there were unturned Raiders hats in Raiders! ... Reading this thread, suddenly remembered I always wanted an Uncle Milton Kingdom of the Crystal Scull projector, thought they might be cheap by now, they are, and ordered one from Amazon. (pic by davidd)

Steve,
Sorry to high-jack your thread like this

Hey, I do it all the time!!! So not to worry. I think I am the hijacker king around here. Sometimes the hijacks are more interesting, than the topic!

Reading this thread, suddenly remembered I always wanted an Uncle Milton Kingdom of the Crystal Scull projector, thought they might be cheap by now, they are, and ordered one from Amazon

What is that? Never heard of an Uncle Milton KOTCS projector. What does it do? I may want one! Fedora

3thoubucks wrote:I love the CS hats. The best sequel hats.

I totally agree with that. The Raiders hat, is "the Raiders Hat", and will always be the subject of study for any fedora fan.
Then TOD and LC are more traditional hats. Not much mistery.

But almost one month ago I opened the box in which I had stored my AB, which is one of the Crown Jewels in my Indy Collection, and by far the best made of the 5 fedoras I owe.

As I usually use another fedora as my everyday hat, (to preserve the AB as recived) I hadn't paid much atention in how much different is it from the LC hat, unlike what I belived.

So, when I won't be learning about the Raiders Fedora, I'll be now busy studying the CS fedora, as I find it almost as much interesting as it, too.

Not just a great and well made hat, but also an interesting one, which in my case I didn't belive it would happen again among Indy hats.

Fedora wrote:
What is that? Never heard of an Uncle Milton KOTCS projector. What does it do? I may want one! Fedora

Retailed for $40. Projects 16mm Indy/Archaelology slides in conjunction with an audio CD, but it's just a cool movie prop. The first 2 pics by ddschneider1972, with the projector removed. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2588/387 ... 072b40.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/387 ... b0b764.jpg http://www.yodasnews.net/IJCreview_Crys ... ctor01.jpg I think that might be a long oval...

Nebraska Schulte wrote:
This, too, is among my favorites--along with these:
http://www.indianajones.com/site/media/ ... to-181.jpg
http://www.indianajones.com/site/enlarg ... to-169.jpg

http://www.indianajones.com/site/media/ ... to-172.jpg
http://www.indianajones.com/site/media/ ... to-180.jpg

I don't know if it's a slight angle difference, but to me the sides of the brim on Ford's hat seem to be less round and straighter than Nebraska's hat, maybe more dimensional. Did Bernie tinker with the dim cut as well? (I had kind of noticed this on mine as well)

I don't know if it's a slight angle difference, but to me the sides of the brim on Ford's hat seem to be less round and straighter than Nebraska's hat, maybe more dimensional. Did Bernie tinker with the dim cut as well? (I had kind of noticed this on mine as well)

No, he did not touch the brims. Any differences between yours and Fords would be due to the hat size. A larger or smaller hat would be just a little different, due to me cutting all brims, using the same formulae, on all hats. So, the larger hats in Indy 4, a couple of the stunt hats would have the same formulae used to cut them, as I did for Ford. If the circumference of the brim is larger or smaller than Ford's size there would be a slight difference in the start and end points of the dimensional cut.

Also another factor to consider is the brim width. Both the 2 3/4 by 2 1/2 and the 2 7/8 by 2 5/8 made it into the film, by accident. When I make larger hat sizes, I opt for the larger of the two film hats, to make the brim fit better with the hat size. A smaller brim on say a 7 1/2 hat, would just look "off" when comparing it to the hat Ford wore with the smaller brim. You have to adjust brim width to hat size, othewise it looks inaccurate.

I may need to adust the start and end points on the larger and smaller hats though. Since I used the same formulae on the brim cuts for the larger and smaller hats used in the film, I thought I would need to do the same on the hats I made for you guys. To keep them accurate as to what I sent to the film. But, that can be changed easily by me when I make the hats. Fedora

Fedora wrote:

I don't know if it's a slight angle difference, but to me the sides of the brim on Ford's hat seem to be less round and straighter than Nebraska's hat, maybe more dimensional. Did Bernie tinker with the dim cut as well? (I had kind of noticed this on mine as well)

No, he did not touch the brims. Any differences between yours and Fords would be due to the hat size. A larger or smaller hat would be just a little different, due to me cutting all brims, using the same formulae, on all hats. So, the larger hats in Indy 4, a couple of the stunt hats would have the same formulae used to cut them, as I did for Ford. If the circumference of the brim is larger or smaller than Ford's size there would be a slight difference in the start and end points of the dimensional cut.

Also another factor to consider is the brim width. Both the 2 3/4 by 2 1/2 and the 2 7/8 by 2 5/8 made it into the film, by accident. When I make larger hat sizes, I opt for the larger of the two film hats, to make the brim fit better with the hat size. A smaller brim on say a 7 1/2 hat, would just look "off" when comparing it to the hat Ford wore with the smaller brim. You have to adjust brim width to hat size, othewise it looks inaccurate.

I may need to adust the start and end points on the larger and smaller hats though. Since I used the same formulae on the brim cuts for the larger and smaller hats used in the film, I thought I would need to do the same on the hats I made for you guys. To keep them accurate as to what I sent to the film. But, that can be changed easily by me when I make the hats. Fedora

Ah. I guess it must be hard finding a universal formual that works for all sizes. Here's me thinking that you did it 'rack o' th'ee'.

Ah. I guess it must be hard finding a universal formual that works for all sizes. Here's me thinking that you did it 'rack o' th'ee'.

Yeah, no universal formulae would work for all hat sizes. I originally used a template made from a Swales cut on an HJ, in Ford's size. And still use that today. But the differences in cuts between a 7 1/4 hat and a 7 1/2 would use 3/4 of an inch difference. So, the start points and ending points of the dimensionaly cut would be only adding a bit over 1/8(3/16ths) of an inch to the start and end points.(3/4 divided by 4) Not noticable until you move up to a size 7 3/4, IMO. We are not talking about a huge variance here in dimensional cuts really.

On the Swales hats I have seen, and I have seen quite a few, he was not consistent in his cuts. And it looked as if he just eyeballed them, without scribing off the brim to get them consistent. So, I saw some HJs with one side being 2 1/2 and the other being 2 3/8. I try not to repeat this mistake on my own hats. Fedora

Fedora wrote:

Ah. I guess it must be hard finding a universal formual that works for all sizes. Here's me thinking that you did it 'rack o' th'ee'.

Yeah, no universal formulae would work for all hat sizes. I originally used a template made from a Swales cut on an HJ, in Ford's size. And still use that today. But the differences in cuts between a 7 1/4 hat and a 7 1/2 would use 3/4 of an inch difference. So, the start points and ending points of the dimensionaly cut would be only adding a bit over 1/8(3/16ths) of an inch to the start and end points.(3/4 divided by 4) Not noticable until you move up to a size 7 3/4, IMO. We are not talking about a huge variance here in dimensional cuts really.

On the Swales hats I have seen, and I have seen quite a few, he was not consistent in his cuts. And it looked as if he just eyeballed them, without scribing off the brim to get them consistent. So, I saw some HJs with one side being 2 1/2 and the other being 2 3/8. I try not to repeat this mistake on my own hats. Fedora

Judging from my hat, you don't...The brim transitions, radii and width are really consistant and symmetrical, almost like you'd drawn the shape on a CAD system or something. I'm really blown away with my AB..

almost like you'd drawn the shape on a CAD system or something.

Nope, just use a ruler and a marker and a cutting device. Nothing high tech with me at all!

Fedora wrote:Nope, just use a ruler and a marker and a cutting device. Nothing high tech with me at all!

A cutter??? No "phasers" involved???
I thought you were really a hi tech hat maker, not an old fashioned one!

Fedora wrote:I had read on another forum awhile back that one guy said the CS fedora looked "off". Never really understood why the guy felt that way. Here is my fav one.

While the block Bernie chose was not my fav, still, compared to some of the TOD hats and even TLC hats, to me, the CS hat just looks better. It is a straighter hat than those. Of course, I WOULD be prejudiced. But even if I were not, I feel I would have still liked the CS hat better than the other two. So, I just don't get what it is about the CS hat that some think looks "off". Yeah, off when compared to the TOD and TLC but not so "off" when compared to some of the Raider fedoras. Just thinking out loud here. Plus, if lefted up to another hatter, who knows what Indy would have worn. The samples from other hatters that I have pics of, were pretty bad! Fedora

From the point of view of a "casual" observer, the Raiders, TOD, and TLC hats were rather distinctive in one way or another--the bash, the shape of the crown, the shape of the brim, etc.. The CS hat, on the other hand, looked the most like what people associate with a "regular" fedora. As such, I think fans of the previous films' felt the CS hats were "off" because of this "lack" of distinction (which we all know is not the case).

That said, I think this is why I like the CS hat the most. To me, the distinctive looks of the hats in the previous films gave them the appearance of the exception rather than the rule--idealized versions of fedoras worn in those eras which seemed more like a "costume" item than something that would be worn daily. Though he has above average intelligence and abilities, Indy is still an "everyman"; an ordinary man who occasionally finds himself in extraordinary circumstances. Considering the nature of his adventures, why would he wear something that differs from the norm and makes him stand out in a crowd rather than blend in and go unnoticed?

To me the CS hat is the perfect Indy hat--stylish and classic, suits Indy's needs, and looks equally at home whether he's in the classroom or in the field. Besides, it's the hat that finally convinced me to get the fedora I've wanted ever since I saw Raiders in 1981.

As such, I think fans of the previous films' felt the CS hats were "off" because of this "lack" of distinction (which we all know is not the case).

Could be I guess. We sent only straight sided blocked hats in as samples, because we knew most of the fans would groan if we had another TOD hat in Indy 4. The block shape we both wanted, was not chosen though. As I have said many time prior, Bernie liked the straight sided fedora block(and it is stamped on the bottom as "fedora" better than our Raiders blocks. Probably because this fedora block shape is so versatile and he could play with it to get the look he was after. Depending upon how you crease this hat, you can have a really straight sided hat, or even a tapered fedora too. It is all in the creasing of this blockshape. I feel that was what he liked about this vintage block.

Also, I have to recognize that the guy who critisized the Indy 4 hat so much did have an ulterior motive. He was supporting a now defunct hatter, and was blinded by that fact. Basically I doubt he like either me or Marc, for some reason and this critique was colored by that. So, it was his way of getting at us.

I do understand the other critiques, but those critques really had nothing to do with the shape of the hat itself. Instead, those guys did not like the pure beaver felt that Bernie chose to use, due to the wetness of the film. They thought it looked too cowboyish in texture. OF course, any pure beaver felt can be associated with cowboy hats, but back in the day, the 7x and 10x Stetson dress line also featured a finer textured felt. I think we tend to confuse great quality felt with cowboy hats sometimes.

The type of felt used in Raiders is a very vintage looking felt, that was not used in the next two films. In fact, the look of the felt on the LC fedora is totally a western looking felt, if one were to classify it in this manner. But it really isn't. It is just a tighter felted rabbit hat, that does not feature the porosity of the Raiders fedora. So, Indy 4 was not the first film to use a non porous type felt. It had already been done, at least considering the LC fedora.

When going for durability in a new felt, most hatters will chose a tighter felted fur body. These tend to shrink less with wear. A porous type hat body is not felted very tight, and the felting will continue on, with wear, and these hats tend to shrink really fast and taper as well. Generally speaking of course.

Once a felt gets old enough though, even the porous type felt stops reacting to the elements. You see a number of vintage hats that were made from this type of felt, and yet they seem immune to shrinkage. That is what fur does I guess. Age is good for it.

Yet in old films, I see the porous type of felt, but also the tighly felted felt as well. The tighter felted hats would have cost more, back then. To confuse a porous type of felt with a tighter felt, and then call it western is actually not understanding felt. IMO. Fedora

One awesome movie prop.

I love the CS fedora too. I thought I wanted a Raiders hat, and was all ready to order one, but the more I looked at stills from the movies, the more I liked the looser pinch of the CS hat. At the last minute, I decided to have Steve make a CS hat instead of a Raiders. However, if I can sneak it past my wife, I may still go for that Raiders hat someday (and the gray CS too! ). On a side note, I absolutely LOVE the AB logo. Have you thought about having lapel pins available? I would absolutely buy one.

My CS AB has some reverse taper, and, though I heard most hats in the movie didn't have reverse taper, I'm pretty sure some of them have, and that's what I love most of the CS fedora (my 2nd fav, after Raiders), so I didn't modified the bash, and let it exactly as recived...

I have to echo that my favorite CS fedora from the film is seen in the first few minutes:





Man I wish I could just reach into the screen and pull it out!!!! (Although if that were possible, Indy would intervene).

Out of all the movies, this Fedora is my favorite. It is a combination of all the best features of all the previous films and the felt looks amazing. The pinch almost looks slightly tighter than the LC at the top, crisp bashes, even the distressing is perfect.

I have to echo that my favorite CS fedora from the film is seen in the first few minutes:

And that first pic is one of my least favorites! But glad you like it. Now, what I did not like about that first pic's hat, is the back crease was too high! Which showed the taper of the block used to make this hat. It it had of been dropped 1/4 an inch, the back would be straight looking. The top crease because of this higher than specs back, was really shallow. And that's the reason it is one of my least favs.

But by the time he gets involved inside the warehouse, the "too tall" back crease has been corrected and the hat looks good.

One thing that also changes in the film with the hat, is the length of the front creases. The longer the crease, the less blocky the crown looks. The specs for the length was given to me as 4 1/2 inches long, from pinch to the back of the front crease. Bernie then tweaked it to 5 inches long to pull the sides in somewhat. But, I can see both front crease length in the film, which does nuance the look of the crown.

The hat that I totally hate is the one he wears in the jungle scenes. Not all of the scenes, but some of them. The crown looks like a round oval instead of a regular oval. It appears to be too wide in crown, to me. This probably happened because Marc blocked some of these hats on his round oval raiders block, so he could iron and pounce the hats, to send to me to finish out. With us being rushed up big time, I may have not stabilized the hat into the CS blockshape well enough, and at least one hat reverted to the round oval. I am pretty sure this is what happened with that one hat in the film. It explains the look to me anyways. But the rest of the hats in the film took the shape like they were supposed to. Plus, some of the hats were made by me alone, and did not suffer the round oval block.

From the point of view of a "casual" observer, the Raiders, TOD, and TLC hats were rather distinctive in one way or another--the bash, the shape of the crown, the shape of the brim, etc.. The CS hat, on the other hand, looked the most like what people associate with a "regular" fedora.

After thinking about this, I think that the CS fedora is actually unusual in a way. The block shape is not what we see on regular fedoras today. The TOD and TLC seem to me to match more what one sees today in fedoras. If you exclude the dimensional cut brims. The CS fedora has a very full crown, which allows for deep front creases, and the sides are perfectly straight with no taper in the block. Which can look rather blocky looking if you don't have a deep top crease and LC style side creases.

If you take a CS fedora and make the top crease deeper, by dropping the back height down to 4 inches max, the hat suddenly looks different, and IMO much better. This is where I disagree with what Bernie chose in specs. This hat would have looked even better if the lower back crease was used. IMO of course. And I am not sure, but we may see a couple hats with the lower backs....the ones that got wet in filming, were dried and reused. This may figure into any differences we see in the film hats. Fedora

Have to say, out of all the threads on COW, this one is my favorite. I could quite literally pull up a chair with some popcorn and devour the information you provide Steve, thanks so much. I love hearing the subtle details and it is def. fascinating to read.

I for one cannot tell a single difference between the first and second picture I posted, so goes to show what flies right over the public's head. Even though I visit here often, I still consider myself an novice when it comes to hats.

I am one of the guys who would probably agree with Bernie in his choices for the fedora, but I think I have an inkling why he chose the way he did. After I have had the good fortune of owning a few different fedoras that differed from each other, there was one thing I noticed about my Henry I just couldn't see in the other fedoras: For some magical reason, even just sitting on a table, and not on a head, the Henry just captures the spirit of what I see as the Indiana Jones fedora when I close my eyes. (Sheesh, imagine when I see the AB Beaver!)

While I couldn't hold a very informative conversation about the nuances of varying degrees of taper throughout the films, for some reason a sharp taper doesn't stick in my subconcious. While I know that Raiders' tight pinch is popular around these parts, when I think of the Indy fedora I see the CS hat, and I think Bernie did too.

I think the CS hat is the sum of our subconscious perception of what the hat should look like.

Reluctantly or not, you nailed it Steve.

Great. The more I look at these CS photos, the more I want a CS fedora! Thanks, Steve. It looks like I better start saving

Is it possible that the "smaller" crown CS hat appears when Indy and Mutt are outside of Orellana's grave? I have a book called "Indiana Jones; the Ultimate Guide, and in it, there is a shot of Indy with a hat that looks much shorter. In this picture, his bag strap is OVER his jacket, just as it is when he delivers the line "Part time." I will see if I can find pics to confirm.

thegreatgalling wrote:Is it possible that the "smaller" crown CS hat appears when Indy and Mutt are outside of Orellana's grave? I have a book called "Indiana Jones; the Ultimate Guide, and in it, there is a shot of Indy with a hat that looks much shorter. In this picture, his bag strap is OVER his jacket, just as it is when he delivers the line "Part time." I will see if I can find pics to confirm.

Is this the one?

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Prev ... s-4-03.jpg

My favorite is also this hat;



Which is why I have it on order and waiting to team up with my Big Tony Nowak CS!






Nov 2008
22-5/8" long oval

Ian wrote:Is this the one?

I appreciate the photo. That is certainly the scene I was refering too. I still have yet to find the pic I am talking about though. I will keep looking. To me, the hat in your photo looks bigger than the one I am talking about.

Hey Steve, any more production photos you can share?

Hopefully, not to shift the topic too much, that photo (which I remember leading to a COW controversy regarding the bag-over the jacket- SHEESH!) shows a cool aspect of CS in terms of using darkened gear to convey maturity (darker holster, strap, and whip).