Club Obi Wan

From what I understand when Tony called me, he told me that now he use a different shrunken lamb. I think Crisman and Chris_King are different leather compare to PSBIndy's

This would explain the differences we're seeing. To me, PSBIndy's jacket is definitely a different kind of leather.

It's a little annoying to be honest because at the time, Tony was very vocal in telling me that the shrunken lamb used on my jacket was "IT". Nothing comes closer according to Tony and he told me that I was mad to want to have another jacket in smoother leather (but still textured).
I wonder if he's now saying that this shrunken lamb is "IT".
Hmmmmm.

I do like it but would like to know once and for all, which leather most closely matches the jacket he examined!

Chris

SpeedRcrX wrote:From what I understand when Tony called me, he told me that now he use a different shrunken lamb. I think Crisman and Chris_King are different leather compare to PSBIndy's

Or maybe Tony can't source any of the original earlier shrunken lamb at the present time, and this leather is the next closest thing?
Tony's personal Indy 1 jacket is the same leather as yours after all Chris, so he must like it! I think it looks good too. I like the sound of PSBIndy's tougher less textured lamb, but there's no doubt your jacket is still an incredible copy. Not my size though!

Thanks Kevin. My jacket now belongs to a fellow fan in Australia so I can't claim to be its owner any longer.

I'm wondering if Tony sourced some slightly smoother leather because of all the early "negative" comments about the dino-hide appearance of the shrunken lamb that he was using.

I've sent him an email (attached a photo of PSBIndy's jacket) and asked him to confirm if this is indeed a different type of leather.

Chris

I look forward to hearing of his reply.
I'll seriously consider this newer 'shrunken lamb' if it's going to become the norm. I don't think Tony would be offended if I asked for something similar to PSB's. Textured, but not crocodile, and if it's slightly stronger than the original shrunken lamb, that's an added bonus.
The advantage for lamb to me though was it's light weight; if it's too thick and heavy, it may as well be cow or goat, for added strength.
Though none of that unique texture with those hides..
So many things to consider...

I've sent him a similar email too. I wonder how many more he'll get?!

You guys are acting a bit fickle, no? So far there are three photos and suddenly everyone is making assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Without the jackets (or at least samples) in front of you details like the thickness, texture, feel, etc. are stricltly conjecture.

Jacket #000 looks similar (from the photos alone) in texture and it was made months ago. So much of basing this on a photo is going to depend on the lighting - shoot it with flat front lighting and it's not going to seem very textured, shoot it with the light from more of an angle and the texture will be pronounced. I could take photos of the same jacket using diffent light in the studio and (using only lighting and no Photoshop tricks) make it look like several jackets; changing the apparent color/shade would be just as easy. Bottom line: photos are great but photos are hugely subjective.

As far as thickness or wight, lamb can be much heavier than goat or even cow; it all depends on how it was handled when it left the animal to the time it became a jacket.

Leather is a natural product, its all different from batch to batch and even animal to animal. You can't think Tony is suddenly doing something different now because of one jacket. In fact I know the jacket he's making for me is from leather he only has enough for one or two jackets. He's always getting different things in.

Raider S wrote: Jacket #000 looks similar (from the photos alone) in texture and it was made months ago. So much of basing this on a photo is going to depend on the lighting - shoot it with flat front lighting and it's not going to seem very textured, shoot it with the light from more of an angle and the texture will be pronounced. I could take photos of the same jacket using diffent light in the studio and (using only lighting and no Photoshop tricks) make it look like several jackets; changing the apparent color/shade would be just as easy. Bottom line: photos are great but photos are hugely subjective.

Jacket #000 isn't shrunken lamb. It's matte lamb.

The second and third photos do show the colour 'off' but they really show the graining well.

the #555 jacket thread has some good photos of the graining and colour.

Chris_King wrote:This would explain the differences we're seeing. To me, PSBIndy's jacket is definitely a different kind of leather.

It's a little annoying to be honest because at the time, Tony was very vocal in telling me that the shrunken lamb used on my jacket was "IT". Nothing comes closer according to Tony and he told me that I was mad to want to have another jacket in smoother leather (but still textured).
I wonder if he's now saying that this shrunken lamb is "IT".
Hmmmmm.

I do like it but would like to know once and for all, which leather most closely matches the jacket he examined!

Chris

PSB's (and mine, Speed's and Crisman's) is the same kind of leather just appears different in texturing.
You are specualting, but I can tell you he NEVER said to me this leather mine is made from is 'IT'. The jacket itself on the other hand is, just as yours.

Your's, whiskyman's, etc most closely match the jacket he examined. That's the peculiarity of peoples reaction to it.

When I have ordered my TN Raiders jacket two weeks or so ago I mentioned to Tony if he maybe could get me a shrunken lamb hide which isn't that grainy. I wanted more mixed leather. Smoother and less grainy. And now it seems he got the right thing. This guy suprises me ever and ever again.

Regards

orb

You are really on a jacket 'roll' orb

Yes Sir
The year 2009 seems to be a good year for me. I have sold all my jackets this year and I have bought many new ones which are all great!
Just one jacket left.. an accurate LC jacket!

Regards

orb

Chris_King wrote:This would explain the differences we're seeing. To me, PSBIndy's jacket is definitely a different kind of leather.

It's a little annoying to be honest because at the time, Tony was very vocal in telling me that the shrunken lamb used on my jacket was "IT". Nothing comes closer according to Tony and he told me that I was mad to want to have another jacket in smoother leather (but still textured).
I wonder if he's now saying that this shrunken lamb is "IT".
Hmmmmm.

I do like it but would like to know once and for all, which leather most closely matches the jacket he examined!

Chris

SpeedRcrX wrote:From what I understand when Tony called me, he told me that now he use a different shrunken lamb. I think Crisman and Chris_King are different leather compare to PSBIndy's

I just talked with Tony. I've got my Fedex number and my shrunken lamb will soon be there
However I asked him if he uses a different shrunken leather now and he told me nope, the leather is never the same. So some hide could be more or less textured. It's not like getting a stamped jacket! So if you ask for more or less textured you may get something what you asked for.

Regards

orb

.................not sure if this is new batch just different selection.....#016 Oct 08......just let TN know if you want more or less grain........he's easy to work with..

Hatch wrote:.................not sure if this is new batch just different selection.....#016 Oct 08......just let TN know if you want more or less grain........he's easy to work with..

Hatch, your jacket *****. I'll PM my address so you can send it to me to be disposed of.

Too late Baldwyn , Dutch asked first........ ;-)

I now own Chris's jacket which has obviously been photographically and otherwise, well documented.

The texture on the front panels is definitely more pronounced and cellular-like but this effect can change dramatically depending on the lighting, even in person. The sleeves of this jacket display a more subtle and irregular linear texturing, which would seem to replicate more closely how the jacket (looked) in some of the film scenes. I would like to see this sleeve texture make random appearance on the front panels....then it would be close.

The shrunken lamb certainly seems to form to the shape it surrounds, noticeable from the few times I have worn it. The pattern and drape are outstanding.
I'm very much looking forward to seeing how it ages.

PSB's jacket looks fantastic and would appear to be a good gauge for the variance in shrunken lamb from batch to batch.

Mike

I took a few pics of mine right before the sun went down for what it's worth. I got mine last November. Next to it is a seal brown G&B goatskin expedition for scale/grain comparison.







http://images23.fotki.com/v803/photos/4 ... 3/1-vi.jpg


Both are really fine jackets. At one point the TN was my favorite but that is not the case anymore. The “honeymoon” period is over (at some point every new jacket is the “favorite”). I like them both pretty equally now, but for very different reasons. What we need is for someone to shoot a TN with celluloid and see how it looks.

Cheers


PS- The further away you are when taking a picture, the less the grain shows up. I might take more pics tomorrow standing further away. You absolutely lose detail with filmstock. That's one of the things that people are having a hard time with I think.

Off topic; Rundquist, that G&B pictured has nicely shaped pockets. Are they all like that nowadays? The one thing that put me off purchasing one was the fairly plain pockets I was seeing on them. If this is no longer the case, that would be great.
Back on topic; that shrunken lamb next to the G&B looks fantastic. Great photo too, it shows a good comparison between the smoother leather most of us are used to and the textured lamb that's growing on me more and more each day!

This would explain the differences we're seeing. To me, PSBIndy's jacket is definitely a different kind of leather.

It's a little annoying to be honest because at the time, Tony was very vocal in telling me that the shrunken lamb used on my jacket was "IT". Nothing comes closer according to Tony and he told me that I was mad to want to have another jacket in smoother leather (but still textured).
I wonder if he's now saying that this shrunken lamb is "IT".
Hmmmmm.

I do like it but would like to know once and for all, which leather most closely matches the jacket he examined!

Chris

Sorry to hear Chris,
Yours looks too "croco" in comparison to PSBIndy's which looks more SA and much better looking imho.

TN said Chris' is "IT" and it can't get any closer and now we see something completely different. And next time it will be something different than PSBIndy's because not even the tanneries themselves can produce the same thing with consistency.

I guess you realize that TN has not bought enough quantity to make all the 888 jackets. Market laws force him to buy little by little. And if tanneries don't have more of the same, he'll have to get the "next best thing".

So, in the end we 'll all have different jackets...

Hey PSBIndy?? Wanna trade yours with mine which looks the same as Chris Kings?

Once again people are basing all these assumptions on a few photos or one jacket taken at the same time in nearly identical light.

Look at the texture on the Rundquist jacket. Not much different than the photos of PSB. That's not a new jacket. Or the Hatch jacket. Nothing too extreme there. Now if I took those and shot them in the studio I could really emphaize that texture and come up with a much differnt look.

As far as the Chris jacket I only see one photo here but do not see "definitely a different kind of leather" compared to the others.

It's leather, it's a natural product and all of it will be different. I'm sure Tony could pick out "less" or "more" texture based on one's request but there is ZERO reason to belive or assume he's using somthing diffent.

Raider S wrote:Once again people are basing all these assumptions on a few photos or one jacket taken at the same time in nearly identical light.

Look at the texture on the Rundquist jacket. Not much different than the photos of PSB. That's not a new jacket. Or the Hatch jacket. Nothing too extreme there. Now if I took those and shot them in the studio I could really emphaize that texture and come up with a much differnt look.

As far as the Chris jacket I only see one photo here but do not see "definitely a different kind of leather" compared to the others.

It's leather, it's a natural product and all of it will be different. I'm sure Tony could pick out "less" or "more" texture based on one's request but there is ZERO reason to belive or assume he's using somthing diffent.

"Can I get an AMEN BROTHER"

Imahomer wrote:That is a really, really nice jacket. Did you get a light distress job, or no distress job on it? Also, how smoothly did the sizing go?

Hey crismans, how old is your jacket. It has a LOT of character to it!

I got it toward the end of last year--l can't really remember but it's not more than a few months old. I did run it through a cold wash/rinse cycle which took off a lot of the shine. Really, though, the more you wear it the more character it develops.

PLATON wrote:

TN said Chris' is "IT" and it can't get any closer and now we see something completely different. And next time it will be something different than PSBIndy's because not even the tanneries themselves can produce the same thing with consistency.

I guess you realize that TN has not bought enough quantity to make all the 888 jackets. Market laws force him to buy little by little. And if tanneries don't have more of the same, he'll have to get the "next best thing".

So, in the end we 'll all have different jackets...

Hey PSBIndy?? Wanna trade yours with mine which looks the same as Chris Kings?

Tony worked a long time with the tannery to get the colour and texture right. Chris's jacket IS IT.

The tannery can adjust the texture somewhat in the 'shrunken lamb process' (see also neutronbomb's post on it) but obviously can't consistently replicate the final effect. It's not a 'stamped' process and the hides are not man made, obviously.
The point is though, as I said in an earlier post, the texture of the jackets such as Chris King's. Whiskyman, Hatch, Indy G, etc have the best representation of the texture of the jacket Tony had to copy.

Platon, when did you get a TN Raider?

RC Signals wrote

Platon, when did you get a TN Raider?

Not yet, because no $$$ no honey.
The TN is not my fav but I would get one if I could afford just to try on and examine.
If I ordered I would ask TN to make one out of the less croco leather he could find in his stock.

I dont get it...


if you dont have one then please tell me whats the point o saying this?

Hey PSBIndy?? Wanna trade yours with mine which looks the same as Chris Kings?

I dont get it...


if you dont have one then please tell me whats the point o saying this?

Just kidding and wanted to see if PSBIndy likes the way Chris King's leather looks like.

oh...ok....

Raider S wrote:

It's leather, it's a natural product and all of it will be different. I'm sure Tony could pick out "less" or "more" texture based on one's request but there is ZERO reason to belive or assume he's using somthing diffent.

It's good what you say but if what SpeedRcrX said at the top of this page, the man (TN) said it himself that is using a different leather.

From what I understand when Tony called me, he told me that now he use a different shrunken lamb. I think Crisman and Chris_King are different leather compare to PSBIndy's

Platon, you're trolling at this point or simply trying to bait people. Call the guy and talk to him yourself because all the "he said, she said" going on recently is too much. This isn't a trial and I have no idea (nor am I really worried about) what Mr. Nowak said to anyone other than myself.

Tony tells a fun story about how all the Skull film jackets are different (that photo of them all on a rack) even though all the leather came from the same place and they were made at the same time; as he likes to explain, every cow has its own DNA.

If someone wants a jacket with more or less texture I'm sure he'll work with people to give them what they want. Other than that, I doubt there's a shrunken lamb conspiracy or attempt to pull a fast one.

Personally, I haven't seen a bad Nowak Raiders yet.

Raider S

Thanks for your reply.
Just to make clear I don't have an issue with TN, his jackets or anyone here, just having a friendly talk.


I am not taking any sides. (I only said the jacket is short but that was long ago).
Now I just don't take any position.

I great to question details of jackets but it's all the guessing and assuming that really go in circles - I'm sure I'm guilty of it too. But why is it such a suprise that each of these custom jackets looks a bit diiferent?

I'll go out on a limb here and guess Mr. Nowak is'nt religious about this. If someone wants to make changes he'll do it. If someone wants a direct copy he can probably come as close as could be expected. But even so any leather that's gone through an aging process will be unique.

Edit: Meant to say "is'nt" not "is".

OK someone do me a favor please. Trying to reconfigure my ideal specs.
What is the measure of the bottom part of the side panel of a TN size 40 jacket in inches?

PLATON wrote:..............

It's good what you say but if what SpeedRcrX said at the top of this page, the man (TN) said it himself that is using a different leather.

From what I understand when Tony called me, he told me that now he use a different shrunken lamb. I think Crisman and Chris_King are different leather compare to PSBIndy's

It's different in that the texture was adjusted, it's not a "different leather". It's shrunken lamb from the same source, but has less 'shrunken' effect. Tony asked for it to be adjusted specifically to appease some people. The darker shrunken lamb and the original amount of texture isn't just something he picked from a tanner's catalog, he worked with the tannery to get it right, a process that takes much time. (as I said in a post above)
Also as I said previously the shrunken lamb of Chris King's, Whiskyman's, Hatch, etc jackets is a closer resemblance to the copied jacket. 'Crocco' is a term for stamped hide. This is not 'Crocco'.
But don't just take may word for it, go to the well yourself. Telephone call is recommended.

Hi Platon!
I have a HF sized TN Raiders Jacket. Which should be a size 40. Mine is just a bit longer in the back (25 inch).
Where should I measure it? I'm glad to help. What do you mean with "bottom part of the side panel"?
Btw. here a picture of my mixted shrunken lamb. Left Panel is real smooth.
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/big/7426-1c.jpg

Regards

orb

I can second what RC is saying. I did indeed "call Tony" and have had a few chats since. (Somewhere in there I happened to order a jacket) TN himself has said that he has introduced a second type of shrunken lamb to suit those people who don't want as full-on a texture as his normal shrunken lamb. He also reiterated that the original style is still the closest match for "THE" jacket. He's just giving people options.