Club Obi Wan

Had not thought of that. Good call

I'm in a bind. Not sure if I should get an Olive Drab or a Desert Khaki watchband for my new Indy watch:

OD:


Desert Khaki:


Thoughts?

I'm thinking olive. This is because the other is too similar to the other colours he wears. My two cents.

Raider Of The Lost Ark wrote:I'm thinking olive. This is because the other is too similar to the other colours he wears. My two cents.

You can also find WWII-vintage ones online in NOS condition for not a lot of money if you want that extra bit of authenticity.

Continuing the military watch theme, below is a Hamilton 4992b G.C.T. pocket watch from the early 1950s. These originally served as the master time source in aircraft, but I could see Indy carrying something like this in his Mk VII or perhaps in the watch pocket of his pants. The movement is very high grade: 22j, adjusted to six positions and temperature, and equipped with a swan's neck micrometric regulator. My example currently keeps time to within a second a day.


(sorry for the reflections on the crystal)

I think this one looks pretty good for the role. I also think the company would be more appealing to Indy than say Omega, because IWC is all about function and Utility, not necessarily Luxury.

http://www.swwatch.com/published/public ... 29_enl.jpg

moviematt1989 wrote:I think this one looks pretty good for the role. I also think the company would be more appealing to Indy than say Omega, because IWC is all about function and Utility, not necessarily Luxury.

http://www.swwatch.com/published/public ... 29_enl.jpg

That looks like a primarily luxury watch, though. Vintage Omegas are a very different animal than the post-Swatch-buyout Omegas that we have today.

tym wrote:

moviematt1989 wrote:I think this one looks pretty good for the role. I also think the company would be more appealing to Indy than say Omega, because IWC is all about function and Utility, not necessarily Luxury.

http://www.swwatch.com/published/public ... 29_enl.jpg

That looks like a primarily luxury watch, though. Vintage Omegas are a very different animal than the post-Swatch-buyout Omegas that we have today.

You think that because, well, IWC watches are exquisitely well made swiss chronographs, and the skeleton back might throw you some. Truth is, that's just the way self-winding systems look, and the skeleton back makes it look pretty.

But, the respect this company has gathered over the long period of their business lifetime, is the utility, precision functionality and life-time of their pieces. Check out the company, and tell me if there is a company out there that offers better utility without all that pretty bling. The have a watch with a perpetual calendar that won't stop until 2499!!!

https://www.iwc.com/index-en.asp

moviematt1989 wrote:

tym wrote:

moviematt1989 wrote:I think this one looks pretty good for the role. I also think the company would be more appealing to Indy than say Omega, because IWC is all about function and Utility, not necessarily Luxury.

http://www.swwatch.com/published/public ... 29_enl.jpg

That looks like a primarily luxury watch, though. Vintage Omegas are a very different animal than the post-Swatch-buyout Omegas that we have today.

You think that because, well, IWC watches are exquisitely well made swiss chronographs, and the skeleton back might throw you some. Truth is, that's just the way self-winding systems look, and the skeleton back makes it look pretty.

But, the respect this company has gathered over the long period of their business lifetime, is the utility, precision functionality and life-time of their pieces. Check out the company, and tell me if there is a company out there that offers better utility without all that pretty bling. The have a watch with a perpetual calendar that won't stop until 2499!!!

https://www.iwc.com/index-en.asp

I'm just calling it as I see it, as I have collected watches for some time. I am aware of Swiss watchmaking history, including the fact that IWC currently outsources their movements. Interestingly, in the late 19th century, American watchmaking was technically far more advanced than the Swiss industry, with the crossover occurring in ensuing decades. Regarding the specific IWC watch in the picture, it is manual wind as there is no rotor. Aesthetically, I take issue with the exaggerated engine turning about the edge of the plate, the very long regulator arm, and the general lack of a true vintage aesthetic (though I do like the simplicity of the dial and blued steel Breguet hands).

To illustrate my point, here are a couple of photos of an Omega that I own, made prior to the company's acquisition by Swatch, cessation of in-house movement production, and assumption of a trajectory towards Rolex-like luxury status. Simple design and utilitarian copper finish, which seems to me more in-line with Indy's aesthetics.

If Indy were based on Bond then considering the time that GL and SS were plotting the whole thing up (Late 70's pre Bond Omega) I would peg Indy as a Rolex man...Maybe something like a Rolex Explorer like Sir Edmund Hillary wore to climb everest, a nice understated tool watch that could take a beating...

I, too, have and am a fan of the above mentioned and pictured Hamilton 4992B. Mine has a production date of January 1945. Once you get your brain wrapped around 24 hour gearing, they're great watches. Same movement as the 21j Hamilton 992B Railway Special...just one extra jewel in the 4992B for the sweep second hand that makes it different.

They were surplussed by the THOUSANDS after the war, and they had a brisk business of converting these 24 hour geared GCT (early GMT time designation) Hamiltons over to 12 hour gearing with a new 4th wheel changeout for a standard second hand and a standard dial. You find them on ebaly all the time, and range from $250 to upwards to $600, depending on time of production and condition.

I agree, Indy would have liked one....but I imagine he, too, would have carried a converted version. The 24 hour gearing was for navigation work in the airforce and navy.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:I, too, have and am a fan of the above mentioned and pictured Hamilton 4992B. Mine has a production date of January 1945. Once you get your brain wrapped around 24 hour gearing, they're great watches. Same movement as the 21j Hamilton 992B Railway Special...just one extra jewel in the 4992B for the sweep second hand that makes it different.

They were surplussed by the THOUSANDS after the war, and they had a brisk business of converting these 24 hour geared GCT (early GMT time designation) Hamiltons over to 12 hour gearing with a new 4th wheel changeout for a standard second hand and a standard dial. You find them on ebaly all the time, and range from $250 to upwards to $600, depending on time of production and condition.

I agree, Indy would have liked one....but I imagine he, too, would have carried a converted version. The 24 hour gearing was for navigation work in the airforce and navy.

Regards! Michaelson

A comrade in arms, then. I presume yours has the "US Govt" markings on the movement due to its WWII vintage? Mine dates from c. 1950 and so may have seen action in the Korean War. It cost me $325 from a seller that was thinning out his collection of dozens of these. That might seem like a lot, but the price included a recent service and six-month warranty, which alone are worth in excess of $100.

I'm not so convinced that Indy would have preferred a 12-hour version of the G.C.T., though. Given his time in OSS and career in the military, I suspect he would have become accustomed to military time and perhaps would have preferred a 24-hour version as a sort of throwback to his Army days.

Actually, mine did not. According to the Hamilton factory records, it was completed in January 1945, but no designation was listed as it being forwarded into Government use. The war ended that year, and surplus items were not heading overseas like they were in the previous years. Many 4229B's were returned in 1946 to Hamilton in a buyback situation, as the number of railroad watches in the U.S. had been completely depleted for use by individuals working in railroad 'time service', so Hamilton was desparate to get hold of as many railroad grade movements back for refit as they could and reconverting them to a standard use 992B railroade grad watch.

Mine shows a lot of use, but nothing to indicate in whose service.

I agree he'd be used to the GCT 24 hour gearing, but every veteran I know/knew (including my Dad) shed every shred of military connection that they could when they left the service after WW2. As a side note, some U. S. Navy men even refused to ever wear white boxer shorts and teeshirts and opted for undershirts and any design and color boxers for the rest of their lives due to that connection. My Dad was one of them. The LAST thing they wanted was to be reminded of the horror of that time, and the 4992B was as direct a connection to that world conflict as one could find, as it was the main navigational time piece used in bombers and many Navy ships for guidance to mission sites.

Based on all that, I still believe if he did use one of these watches, he would have only used a 12 hour conversion....but we're tossing around theories, and your theory is as good as mine.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Actually, mine did not. According to the Hamilton factory records, it was completed in January 1945, but no designation was listed as it being forwarded into Government use. The war ended that year, and surplus items were not heading overseas like they were in the previous years. Many 4229B's were returned in 1946 to Hamilton in a buyback situation, as the number of railroad watches in the U.S. had been completely depleted for use by individuals working in railroad 'time service', so Hamilton was desparate to get hold of as many railroad grade movements back for refit as they could and reconverting them to a standard use 992B railroade grad watch.

Mine shows a lot of use, but nothing to indicate in whose service.

Interesting. So there are no issue markings on the case back?

I agree he'd be used to the GCT 24 hour gearing, but every veteran I know/knew (including my Dad) shed every shred of military connection that they could when they left the service after WW2. As a side note, some U. S. Navy men even refused to ever wear white boxer shorts and teeshirts and opted for undershirts and any design and color boxers for the rest of their lives due to that connection. My Dad was one of them. The LAST thing they wanted was to be reminded of the horror of that time, and the 4992B was as direct a connection to that world conflict as one could find, as it was the main navigational time piece used in bombers and many Navy ships for guidance to mission sites.

Based on all that, I still believe if he did use one of these watches, he would have only used a 12 hour conversion....but we're tossing around theories, and your theory is as good as mine.

Interesting thoughts. I guess we need to find the real Indy and ask him.

Interesting. So there are no issue markings on the case back?

None, but that was not unusual for Hamilton watches not placed in service under government contract at wars end. A lot were shipped under contract, but no specific branch was identified and there no markings were engraved on the case backs. They were put in inventory by serial number only, but kept on standby.

Some didn't even have 'government contract' engraved on the bridge. Mine didn't.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:

Interesting. So there are no issue markings on the case back?

None, but that was not unusual for Hamilton watches not placed in service under government contract at wars end. A lot were shipped under contract, but no specific branch was identified and there no markings were engraved on the case backs. They were put in inventory by serial number only, but kept on standby.

Some didn't even have 'government contract' engraved on the bridge. Mine didn't.

Regards! Michaelson

My suspicion is that the "US Gov't" engraving only appeared on a subset of WWII-issued watches. It sounds like your example was either delivered to the military after V-J day and was put into stores without seeing service or it never left the Hamilton factory and was surplussed. I'd lean to the latter as these watches were used by at least the Air Force in the Korean War (mine has an "AF-52" prefix to the military nomenclature and the movement serial number dates the manufacture to c. 1950). A watch in government stores since the mid-1940s would presumably be cleaned and put into service for a new conflict before issuance of a new contract. At any rate, military provenance is nearly impossible to prove without ordnance markings (at least among collectors).

An interesting discussion, Michaelson, even if it drives the discussion a bit off-topic.

Agreed.

Just one final point. I have a copy of the hand written Hamilton factory record with my watch serial number, and it WAS delivered for government use by military contract after leaving the finishing room on January 15, 1945, but no listing of WHAT government branch it went to....so your 'former' theory actually holds more water than the 'surplussed by Hamilton' latter theory. I'd say if it was surplussed, it was by the government in 1946 back to Hamilton rather than by Hamilton itself. Once again, all theory and nothing but theory.

Anyway, back to our regularily scheduled program, already in progress.....
Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:I have a copy of the hand written Hamilton factory record...

Pfft...who needs such "facts" and "records."

At any rate, thanks for the nice divertimento.

Love talking shop! I've been a watch collector longer than I've been involved in this hobby!

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Love talking shop! I've been a watch collector longer than I've been involved in this hobby!

Regards! Michaelson

Yeah, ever since they invented watches!

binkmeisterRick wrote:

Michaelson wrote:Love talking shop! I've been a watch collector longer than I've been involved in this hobby!

Regards! Michaelson

Yeah, ever since they invented watches!

Does that include the clepsydra?

I've got two of those out back, but stopped using them a couple years ago. The water bill was KILLING me!

Regards! Michaelson

Can I just say here Louisiana, what an adorable cat!!!!

I think Indy might possibly have had the double-personality thing going on with a watch, similar to the grey travel fedora, and his brown adventure one. I agree in troublesome times and hard work, a military watch seems appropriate, however in the more academic moments of his life, perhaps a rectangular watch with the three piece suits? My Grandmother tells me they were very popular for Oxford professors in England in the '30s, just an idea-something a little like this.......

i've seen an add of ford endorsing hamilton......it looked like a pilot's watch. did anyone see it?

this is my 'Indy inspired' watch:
Practical but cheap enough replace if it breaks.
Military 24 hour movement so it doubles as a compass. Water and shock proof. Dark face to cut down reflections. NOT luminous - you dont want to be given away in the dark. Broad leather strap to reduce chaffing.

Dr. Henricus23 wrote:My Grandmother tells me they were very popular for Oxford professors in England in the '30s, just an idea-something a little like this.......

To be fair, the "tank watch" (do I have to pay Cartier each time I use that term?) style was generally popular in that time period. There are some wonderful Art Deco designs out there, giving way to more utilitarian designs after WWII.

My guess if Indy ever carried a watch it would be henry senior's that was given to him in his will. Along with his Grail Diary, Crucifixion painting and "Leap of Faith".

Which one? The open face version he pulls out in the bi-plane, or the hunter case watch he pulls out and winds on the motorcycle?

Regard! Michaelson

There are two?
Wow there are two!

We learn something new all the time around here!



Travis

WOW I guess you are right there are two watchs