Washed goat ROLA

[Holt]

Im not a expert on the jacket but when i compare the 2 jackets (whiskyman & Indiana's) they look very similar in length.... be that long or short:

bear in mind tha the picture of Whiskeys jacket is taken direct from the front and the shot of Indy os taken from a lower angle, so the jacket may appear longer.

[Holt]

platon,

this jacket





is this jacket.

[Indiana Jonesy]

How about this one? Not trying to get into an argument (that is not my intention, trust me)... but it looks like there were different styles for different scenes.

[FLATHEAD]

How about this one? Not trying to get into an argument (that is not my intention, trust me)... but it looks like there were different styles for different scenes.

Its all an optical illusion.

Notice Fords left hand, and the position of the bottom of the jacket poking
out from behind the bottle on the table.

Notice anything? His lefthand side bottom of the jacket is easily 3 or
4 inches HIGHER up than the righthand side.

Does this mean we have found a new style jacket that is shorter on one
side than the other?

No. Its all camera angles and how Ford is standing.

In this shot, the jacket is hanging lower on his righthand side of his body,
as evident by the collar is sitting lower on this side, and the shoulder seam
is lower on this side too versus his lefthand side.

The whole jacket is actually twisted lower twards the righthand side of his body.

Also take notice that his shoulder on the right side of his body is lower than his
shoulder on the left side of his body in this picture.

This makes the jacket seem longer, when it is not.

Its all an illusion that changes everytime we see a different camera angle
or he is standing in a different way.

Flathead

[Indiana Jonesy]

How about this one? Not trying to get into an argument (that is not my intention, trust me)... but it looks like there were different styles for different scenes.

Its all an optical illusion.

Notice Fords left hand, and the position of the bottom of the jacket poking
out from behind the bottle on the table.

Notice anything? His lefthand side bottom of the jacket is easily 3 or
4 inches HIGHER up than the righthand side.

Does this mean we have found a new style jacket that is shorter on one
side than the other?

No. Its all camera angles and how Ford is standing.

In this shot, the jacket is hanging lower on his righthand side of his body,
as evident by the collar is sitting lower on this side, and the shoulder seam
is lower on this side too versus his lefthand side.

The whole jacket is actually twisted lower twards the righthand side of his body.

Also take notice that his shoulder on this right side of his body is lower than his
shoulder on the left side of his body in this picture.

This makes the jacket seem longer, when it is not.

Its all an illusion that changes everytime we see a different camera angle
or he is standing in a different way.

Flathead

I don't think its an optical illusion... he is putting his left hand against the pocket, hence he lifts the jacket.

I'm watching the film now as i type... have a look at the beginning... when he is facing the golden aunament from a distance (right after he used his wip to jump the whole). Its the same jacket he has in length as the one in the picture.

I'm starting to believe that there were 2 style of jackets... one for normal activity... and another for fighting, hence i think the jacket in the bar scene in Napal is different length to the one in the picture i showed you or at the beginning. Thats just my observation from watching the film and looking at photos.

[FLATHEAD]

I'm watching the film now as i type... have a look at the beginning... when he is facing the golden aunament from a distance (right after he used his wip to jump the whole). Its the same jacket he has in length as the one in the picture.

Look thru the screen captures people have posted in the past, and look
how the exact same jacket, from shot to shot, looks as if it is longer in one
shot, and shorter in the next.

And its all shots that are within a few seconds of each other.

There was more than one jacket used in the film. If you do a search of
this sight, you can find this info, so you are right about that.

Its very well documented. There are hero jackets and stunt jackets.

But from one scene to the next, the same jacket can look different in
length just do to the camera angles and the way Ford is standing or moving
in each scene, giving it the illusion of multiple jackets.

Flathead

[Pitfall Harry]

here is a picture of me in my one year old ROLA special offer lambskin.

fits great,looks great.not 100% SA of course, but maby about 70% SA,which is fine by me,Im a bit tired with SA,at least with the raiders jacket.the LC specs I am still working on...

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g182/ ... utside.jpg

Holt, your jackets color is "authentic brown", correct?

[Holt]

yep. auth.br ;-)

[Holt]

this dicsussion about the '' longer'' iman house jacket is ridiculous!


if you look very closely you can see ford wears the jacket with the rigth collar hanging lower down his chest, and the left collar is higer up. that way the jacket droppes lower below the beltline. try it yourself. you WILL have the exact same effect. this jacket is NOT long. it is short. like all the other raiders jacket.

here is an example.

[Indiana Jonesy]

Ok... check this out then:



As you can see the picture you posted is clearly short, and i accept that.

What i think (from picture 2) is that there is a longer jacket. First of all he has his hands in his pocket (1) which would mean the jacket would be pushed up. (2) just shows you how the jacket is being pushed up.

Also the picture in the bar.... with the red-line i have indicated roughly where his waste line must be (can't be much higher than that). In the second picture the distance between his waste and the end of the jacket (which don't forget is being holsted up slightly by his hands in his pocket) is greater than that of the first picture.

As i said, the short jacket is correct but i think there was a second style which was slightly longer than the one used in the bar.

[Holt]

you forget that when a person zipps up a jacket it rides up in the back. like in the raven bar.

in the iman house he has it unzipped. there for a little longer looking..

all optical illusions.....




ok back on topic, please

[Indiana Jonesy]

you forget that when a person zipps up a jacket it rides up in the back. like in the raven bar.

in the iman house he has it unzipped. there for a little longer looking..

all optical illusions.....




ok back on topic, please

Ok...cool ;-)

BTW... love the avatar Holt.

[Holt]

also _ looked into this way back, and he had confirmed that ALL jackets were the same size.


ok, Im done with this discussion.

if you guys want to continue this discussion about the length once agian then please make a new thread about it. or find a dead thread about it on page 2 or something ;-)

[RaiderZee]

OTR - size 42
Armpit to armpit - 22.5"
Sleeve - 25.5"
Stormflap (not including collar stand) 23.5"
Back (not including collar stand) 26.5"

I just sent back an "identical" jacket to Whisky's:

Armpit to armpit - 23.75"
Sleeve - 25.5"
Stormflap (not including collar stand) 23.5"
Back (not including collar stand) 26"

I got the FS, you didn't. That's why I've gone custom. IF anyone ever answers my emails . . .

RaiderZee

[coronado3]

I think we can all agree that Indy's jackets DO NOT hit at this pant-line like a bellhop jacket, right?

Also, it seems that in many scenes, it appears that the jacket was a bit longer in the front, creating a forward slope... I have tried on many OTR jackets from wested that actually sloped from long in the back to shorter in the front.

Anywhooo.... Has the washed goat changed it's value (lightness/darkness)?

Whiskey's first washed goat was very dark... almost black. The most recent w.g.s I've seen seem closer to a medium brown. Comments?

[PLATON]

This ROLA jacket is classified under 80s fit?

Looking great.
Did you order your size?
One size up?
or what?

[Indiana Jonesy]

This ROLA jacket is classified under 80s fit?

Looking great.
Did you order your size?
One size up?
or what?

I would like to know as well... trying to get the same jacket myself.

[Kt Templar]

This ROLA jacket is classified under 80s fit?

Looking great.
Did you order your size?
One size up?
or what?

I would like to know as well... trying to get the same jacket myself.

Take a buzz around the M25...(when the snow thaws) you are about 50 minutes away!

[Kevin Anderson]

Bingo, Raider Zee, that would be the problem I had, and why I sent my 'identical' jacket right back. Armpit-to-armpit it felt huge, and wrong.
So, it's a lottery again with the OTR's.

[RaiderZee]

Yeah, Kevin, I'm leery of the OTR lottery, so I placed a placed a custom order via email last week. I still hadn't heard back today, so I called Wested. Peter was the only one in the store; turns out they've been snowed in big time. Gemma hasn't been in since last week due the weather, so basically emails since Friday have gone unanswered.

I'd never talked with Peter before, but we had a delightful conversation. He looked over my spec sheet, said no problem and it would ship in about 10 days. When in doubt, talk to THE MAN.

BTW, his order of new goatskins is due in tomorrow.

RaiderZee

[rover smith]

Would that be the washed goat Raider Zee?

[Indiana Jonesy]

This ROLA jacket is classified under 80s fit?

Looking great.
Did you order your size?
One size up?
or what?

I would like to know as well... trying to get the same jacket myself.

Take a buzz around the M25...(when the snow thaws) you are about 50 minutes away!

Will do when i get a chance... I've ordered the 44R, so will see how it pans out. If im not happy i will go up and get it sorted.

[RaiderZee]

Not sure what you mean, Rover. My jacket is in soft goat; as for the skins order, my impression was that this is a big order with multiple types of skins coming in, as Peter said he was out of a bunch of stuff. Not exactly what's in it beyond standard goat though.

RZ

[Imahomer]

That sure is a great looking jacket and you wear it well!!!

[rover smith]

RZ

I know they've been having problems with their washed goat for custom jackets, I've been waiting on one since November. Last I spoke to Gemma she said it would be around 2 weeks before they had anymore news on what was happening, which should be about now.

[PLATON]

Holt wrote

doesnt matter, the jacket is proven short.


read the Tony nowak hero jacket thread

How it was proven short??

I found the ULTIMATE test that proves that the jacket was LONG
And it is unaffected by the angle the shots were taken.

Look at the photos below





You will notice that there is enough room there to fit one more pocket between the pocket and the armhole!!!

While in this



there isn't

No optical illusions here.

So either TN's pocket is too big or his jacket is too short, both cases not SA.

If you still want it to be SA, then OK, it's SA for the Hawaii scene which is not representative of the jacket as the jacket appears only for a few seconds.

Maybe I should put that on the "Jacket was long" thread too.

PS: Notice also that in the 1st photo, HF's left hand sleeve ends at where the body of the jacket ends.

Now what do you have to say about that?


Now, the photo below shows that TN's dimensions could be right considering the Hawaii jacket, so it's all up to you whether you want the Hawaii (short) jacket or the rest of the movie (long) jacket.



Not to mention that the pocket placement on TN is off and that his pocket is long compared to this which is almost squared.

[Kevin Anderson]

I couldn't care less about what's screen accurate or not anymore, and I have a TN Raiders on order. I just want a nice looking,
well made and fitted jacket.
Those are some interesting comparison pics Platon has posted though. How does anyone who claims that every jacket in Raiders
was short explain those? Unless those are TINY pockets in the 'daylight' picture...
Or is it another 'optical illusion'?

[Raider S]

Platon, you really need to understand that looking at still photos isn't absolute proof of anything. Can you explain why the jackets would have been made to different lenghts to begin with?

[Kevin Anderson]

For what it's worth, photos are likely to be the ONLY proof we ever have.
And maybe they were made different lengths accidently? I mean, it's commonly accepted, I thought,
that they were made in a hurry; what's an inch or two of length here or there when the maker is rushed?

[binkmeisterRick]

I've seen photos where everything, including the sets, looks black and white. It's definitive proof that they also made jackets, hats, and shirts in varying shades of grey.

[Kevin Anderson]

Ha Ha. Very funny! I actually thought you'd be here to close this thread down or at least keep it on track!

[PLATON]

We could also assume that jackets were made in various sizes, (for the stunts etc) or there could have been Regulars or Longs and HF picked and wore any jacket he liked without taking care to wear the right size for him.

Anyhow the "long version" of the jacket looks excellent in some scenes of the movie and it makes me want one.

Let me say also that by "long" I don't mean the jacket was actually long like e.g. the Pankot jacket. The jacket is generally short, (i.e. shorter than the Pankot) but not as short as some replicas we have seen (e.g. the last 80s fit I got from Wested, or the jacket on Chris Kings statue, or TN's jacket). So, although it is generally short, it is still longer than some reproductions.

I hope the above iss clear.

[binkmeisterRick]

Ha Ha. Very funny! I actually thought you'd be here to close this thread down or at least keep it on track!

Well, considering this thread is supposed to be about the Washed goat ROLA, and it seems to have turned into another long vs. short vs. screen grab thread, what do you think should happen? (hint hint)

[whiskyman]

Well as this was my thread to begin with, see if I can tie things together a bit...

Platon, pics are definitely difficult to judge. Let me just put these pics of my washed goat and my nowak Raiders out there side by side. On the left is the washed goat - which everyone commented on as being long etc - on the right is the "short" Nowak


And look how the Nowak looks like it has giant pockets that take up all the front of the jacket when flat, but not so when worn.

[whiskyman]

Don't forget also that the Nowak varies in perceived lengthe depending on whether it's worn..

On the shoulders.............. ......or......... ...... Off the shoulders

[whiskyman]

The big difference between the Wested and Nowak is the back length. With the Nowak it's the same as the front storm flap length. On the Wested it's a couple of inches longer so that when worn, the back and front are level. With the Nowak, the back sits a bit higher than the front -except when the jacket slips back off the shoulders. Which to me is what makes the fit so ###### cool!

I can't give any further comparisons as I sent the Nowak back to Tony some months ago and I bought the washed goat some weeks after I sent the nowak back. As far as i recall, the Nowak is a baggier jacket - both in the body and sleeves. The Washed goat is a ROLA - therefore the 80s fit - and doesn't feel quite as "right" as the fit of the Nowak. Strangley, the way the Nowak is cut and the way it drapes , makes it look like a tighter fit than it is.

[Holt]

sigh............................

[Holt]

no no. mr bomb ... I can see why post can confuse you....


but it wasnt ment for you or whiskey, go figure

[Holt]

nope....

[PLATON]

Neutronbomb my friend, I didn't get your point. You wrote all this long text to say that the jacket was short, or to express that I annoy you by saying it is long?

I 'll answer to you point by point. You don't need to answer back. And sorry to all for hijacking the thread.

Platon, J!M already pointed out on the 000/888 tutorial thread about camera lenses and angles playing distortion games with two dimensional images and Mr. Holt and Flathead have discussed this on this thread. The picture where you point out the left sleeve is lined up with the bottom edge of jacket is NOT because the jacket is longer. It's unzipped and pulled forward (the corner of the front heads towards the back at a 45 degree angle). The back of the jacket in that picture is probably half way up his back. plus HF is leaning slightly forward.

OK, the jacket is pulled forward he leans forward, we got this figured out.
Now explain please this. On the same photo, on the other side, do you or do you not see enough space there to fit one more pocket?

Practically every thread I've read where you post has this deal about long jackets being used in ROLA. Could you please post pictures of you wearing your personal ROLA jacket that is made "long"? Are you serious about this "long" jacket deal or do you just love to play devils advocate 'cause I can't really tell.

I have a standard cut jacket and used to have an 80s cut. When laid flat they have the same length, but when worn the 80s cut is shorter. This gave birth to my long or sort dilemma.

It's really weird that MOST everyone doesn't see what you see, even the very long time members who have studied screen caps for years. I don't know if there is a thread dedicated to your "long" jacket theories but this topic always seems to hijack all the threads. It'd be cool if there was a dedicated thread where this could be debated to everyones heart's content 'till the end of time.

Just because no one else speaks, it doesn't mean that there aren't people who agree with me. I receive PMs supporting my theory.

EDIT: Found the thread. "Jacket length, I told you". Puppetboy addresses optical allusions at length. Also, "the magical, mystical jacket collar" discusses optical illusions created by two dimensional pictures in detail. _ has stated, "This has been explained to unreasonable degrees to you over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Why don't you get this?" I think Runquist mentioned something about "looking for glory". I can't believe the amount of time you spend hammering on jacket length despite many measurements of actual screen used ROLA jackets. Even going to lengths to discount "short" pictures of HF wearing the jacket by claiming those pictures are optical illusions or he's hunching his shoulders up or something, but then discounting those same types of arguments when it goes the other way.

I was never fond of the "optical illusions" theory because it is too subjective. Why do we always have optical illusions about his jacket and don't have any about his shirt, his pants or his nose? Why is it so hard for you to accept that maybe in the temple scene we wore a longer jacket and prefer to blame it all on the optical illusion. Is the whole temple scene an optical illusion then?

Additonally, you've mentioned you believe there are two main jackets used in ROLA, the temple and the Hawaii jackets, but then you say you also believe they used jackets with different lengths for action shots vs. other shots. These two theories seem like they oppose each other. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.

I still support the theory of the two main jackets. One must have been longer. I didn't say that they used different lengths for action shots vs other shorts. I made the assumption that maybe at some point HF wore a jacket that was meant for a stuntman.

Even Fedora (Steve) agrees that there could have been different jackets.

I think the problem is the jackets actually varied in length. And don't say it can't happen. There are two brown hats in the new film in so far as specs. The WRONG one was a sample that got aged and sent to Hawaii, and was used in the film BEFORE the difference was noticed. S$%# happens. Fedora

You already have your own thread, "jacket length, I told you" dedicated to this subject, so why do you insist on back handed compliments on everyone's jackets by saying, "it's too short, but nice jacket though". Is your agenda that you want everyone to order jackets with your specs?

People show their jackets and ask for opinions. I say mine, what's wrong with that. I don't want everyone to order my specs. Actually my specs are not "long". I think that the 25 inches of a 40R Wested is the right length.

Sorry if I bore you with my comments. I only posted because I think there are members who may still doubt about the length so I posted those photos to help them make up their mind. I already made up mine, you made up yours, no point arguing.

This was my final post regarding length and sorry again for hijacking.

[whiskyman]

I suspect you'll be getting something back from TN. NOT speaking for or gossip or anything like that, but if you get the chance to have it in your hands again before selling it, maybe you could give some more feedback on your impressions of the OTR wested construction/fit vs the TN fit.

I don't expect to be getting anything back from Mr. Nowak.
As for the Wested, it will probably be part of my upcoming gear-giveaway. Keep an eye on the classifieds

[Yojimbo Jones]

I don't expect to be getting anything back from Mr. Nowak.
As for the Wested, it will probably be part of my upcoming gear-giveaway. Keep an eye on the classifieds

Is there any jacket you are prepared to keep, WM? Every time I see you've bought something you get rid of it...

[whiskyman]

Very true. As pennance I'll be giving away the remainder of my gear - the washed goat, a hat, a whip and a bag and rucksack. In about 3 weeks and aimed at newbies or those without decent gear. These items should spread a little joy. As i said, details will be posted in the classifieds.

[Michaelson]

So, are you geting out of the hobby again, or just starting over?

Regards! Michaelson

[whiskyman]

I want to adopt a more casual passive role and rediscover the original pleasure I had in being a fan of Indiana Jones.

[Michaelson]

That is an answer and quest I TOTALLY and PERSONALLY understand, my friend.

Regards! Michaelson

[Heyjude7]

Amen Whiskeyman! i never was into details until i got into this forum. im not saying its a bad thing, CoW is great, just i dont have the same mind and viewing as i did before.

[PSBIndy]

I want to adopt a more casual passive role and rediscover the original pleasure I had in being a fan of Indiana Jones.

Can you elaborate on that? What the heck is a "casual, passive" fan? ...does that mean you want to liquidate all your Indy gear and just watch the movies?

[Raider S]

If it were me it would mean I didn't want to be obsessed with small details or obsessed with the aquisition of things I think I "must" have.

Personally, the only thing I have a bit of SA syndrome over is the jacket and my latest has meet my needs there. My WPG shirt is a fine shirt that nobody would mistake for a costume. Todd's boots are just a pair of plain old leather boots. Don't want a hat. If I were really worried about how SA it all was I think it would weigh heavy on my mind and to me that would be odd.

[Hatch]

NB, I think you're onto something about the other vendors wanting to improve the original to be a real world fitting jacket ie shoulders fitting shoulders etc......whereas TN was able to incorporate the "poorly built" but very cool looking fitting jacket on screen.........in real life the TN wants to fall off the shoulders when you walk, move etc........I think this is part of what makes the movie jackets look different lengths in different screen caps.....the jacket "moves" on you as you move......just my 2 cents,but it's the only jacket I've ever worn with these properties........