Club Obi Wan

Steve you've sort of answered your own question there.

On the vintage HJ posted above, when I creased it into the Indy style, it had way too much taper!!!! From the front. I fooled with it, steamed it and got frustrated.

The hat is perfectly straight sided on that old HJ...no doubt about that...and the front and back taper however minimal is there too. Reminds me of the Henry a little . You said when the hat was bashed it had taper...im going to make the assumption it wasn't a huge amount. If you had pic's it would be great.

Any hat that I see in Raiders that has some albeit minimal taper is not turned and has a crease. e.g...



http://www.indygear.com/images/gear/jac ... tLAclr.jpg


or...




http://www.indygear.com/images/gear/jacket/ravenbar.jpg



However the turned hats all appear to have no taper...as well as the grey clipper hat with the bashes taken out in the Street's Of Cairo sequence . All this would Corroborate with what you have said and found in that vintage poet.

cheers

Again for the very astute eyes, notice the differnt radius on the back of the top as compared to the front radius.(on the vintage HJ) The back is a bit lower. And the radius is just a little differnt. We are talking very fine details here. But, important details IMO. And, why I have worked, and reworked my blocks over the years trying to get it right to have Lamode replicate on his old blockmaking machines. Any error on my part is my fault. But, with that said, I am happy with what I have now, and don't see any tweaks down the road, but be advised, I have said that several times before!

You said when the hat was bashed it had taper...im going to make the assumption it wasn't a huge amount. I

Well actually it was, and that is what frustrated me when the stiffer felt would not react correctly. A soft felt would have given you the straight look. It was just the particular felt that was used on this particular vintage Poet. Apparently at one time, they gave you a choice(a stiff or soft hat), back when HJ was a world renown hatter, with their hats selling in stores all over the world. You could walk into many high end dept stores of that era, in the US. and buy an HJ. Or a Borsalino, or a Stetson in London. Different times, with really great quality hats being made at that time in history. Fedora

Don't forget that with the "outdoor" hats, they were dealing with extreme heat. Heat really puts the zap on the type of felt that the Raiders hat was made out of. That's why the brims lost all their curl and it sort of looks like a Beverly Hillbillies hat. The dimple is caused by the ribbon being too tight. I don't know if this is because the ribbon shrank or the felt sort of "expanded" in the heat. Ribbon shrinkage is more likely. Still, the desert look is really hard to capture without 100 degree plus temperature.

I don't know if this is because the ribbon shrank or the felt sort of "expanded" in the heat. Ribbon shrinkage is more likely.

The ribbon we use now, that was used by HJ at one time, has to be wetted and iron several times before we install it on the hats. The reason? Unlike Schiff grosgrain, this stuff from Europe will shrink up on the hat, if you don't pre-shrink it prior to installing it on the hat. So, yep, I bet that ribbon did shrink. That would explain alot.

And, I agree with you fully on the hat shrinkage in the heat. And why we see different looks from the Poet used in that film. Plus, it was being abused in the stunts. Combine those two and you get the inconsistent hats in the film. Should have thought of that years ago myself. But didn't. Fedora

Uh, Steve. We did.

You and I had discussions regarding this very thing back when we experienced the same situation with shrinking ribbons on the old Millers and problems with the first Fed. I.

Don't you remember?:-s

Apparently not!

You're crossing old trails and not remembering the paths once walked!

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora wrote:

I don't know if this is because the ribbon shrank or the felt sort of "expanded" in the heat. Ribbon shrinkage is more likely.

The ribbon we use now, that was used by HJ at one time, has to be wetted and iron several times before we install it on the hats. The reason? Unlike Schiff grosgrain, this stuff from Europe will shrink up on the hat, if you don't pre-shrink it prior to installing it on the hat. So, yep, I bet that ribbon did shrink. That would explain alot.

And, I agree with you fully on the hat shrinkage in the heat. And why we see different looks from the Poet used in that film. Plus, it was being abused in the stunts. Combine those two and you get the inconsistent hats in the film. Should have thought of that years ago myself. But didn't. Fedora

Very interesting, maybe having the ribbon shrink on the hat will result in a more SA hat.

The ones we had looked SA, but MAN were they uncomfortable!

Regards! Michaelson

Hey Steve-

You mentioned that the current HJ's are "closer" in felt quality to the vintage ones than you've seen in the past. I just want to opine briefly here on this point. I received a Mag HJ from you a couple of months ago and now that it's gotten some daily wear it's really starting to look like what I see on screen as far as character and felt behavior goes. Have you handled any of these after a couple months of wear? I will need to post some pics here tonight of my HJ as it's really started to take on "that" look.

Do you know where this felt is coming from currently? How does it compare in stiffness to the vintage HJ's you've handled?

Cheers!
Aviv

Still, the desert look is really hard to capture without 100 degree plus temperature.

Come on down to Phoenix in July and August. It might get down to 100F at night -- like 4:00 a.m.

Do you know where this felt is coming from currently? How does it compare in stiffness to the vintage HJ's you've handled?

First of all, Magnoli orders his hat(sent to me) with no stiffener, although there is some in "some" of the brims. I think the SAB HJ has stiffener in the crown and brim. I have seen at least two vintage Poets. One was the stiffer one, and the pic is posted above. The other was a soft felt that would bulge, and do the same thing as the film hat. But, it was thicker than what HJ current uses. The HJ I made yesterday was pretty darn thin. It actually needed some stiffener added to keep it from just falling into itself.

The current felt is actually made by the factory who makes the HJs and Christies and probably the Lock hats as well. Not sure where, but it is European in origin, but not the U.K. (I do know, but have been sworn to secretcy). Fedora

Edit:
OOPS did not know it was something that could'nt be shared.

Fedora wrote:

Do you know where this felt is coming from currently? How does it compare in stiffness to the vintage HJ's you've handled?

First of all, Magnoli orders his hat(sent to me) with no stiffener, although there is some in "some" of the brims. I think the SAB HJ has stiffener in the crown and brim. I have seen at least two vintage Poets. One was the stiffer one, and the pic is posted above. The other was a soft felt that would bulge, and do the same thing as the film hat. But, it was thicker than what HJ current uses. The HJ I made yesterday was pretty darn thin. It actually needed some stiffener added to keep it from just falling into itself.

The current felt is actually made by the factory who makes the HJs and Christies and probably the Lock hats as well. Not sure where, but it is European in origin, but not the U.K. (I do know, but have been sworn to secretcy). Fedora

I've owned 5 older HJ Poets; I started buying them in 1990. Four were the thicker and stiffer type, and one (the Young Indy version) was softer, floppier and had as I recall a more straight-sided blockshape than all but one of the others. It was also noticeably thinner than my other old Poets, but thicker and heavier than my newer Magnoli HJ.

One of the 5 had the red pentagon logo; one had the burgundy oval logo; and all the others had a white oval logo.

I wouldn't trade my Magnoli HJ/AB for any of those older Poets, but I do wish I still had the Young Indy hat.

Jack

[/quote]
I wouldn't trade my Magnoli HJ/AB for any of those older Poets, but I do wish I still had the Young Indy hat.

Jack[/quote]

I have two words to explain why you wouldn't. STEVE DELK

BendingOak wrote:[/quote}
I wouldn't trade my Magnoli HJ/AB for any of those older Poets, but I do wish I still had the Young Indy hat.

Jack

I have two words to explain why you wouldn't. STEVE DELK[/quote]

No argument there!

You mentioned that the current HJ's are "closer" in felt quality to the vintage ones than you've seen in the past.

Qualitywise, the current ones fall way short of the vintage HJs. But this of course is to be expected. I have actually seen a slight change in the current bodies I am using over what I first got from HJ. The current ones seem to be thinner. But, the felt looks the same. Still very unstable, that much has not changed.

I am working on one now, and I hit it with too much steam when I had it on the block and was trying to get the wrinkles out of the crown. So, one shot too many and I instantly had a 5 inch open crown hat!!!

So, I take that short body(a size 60 body) and I am having to totally remake the hat, and stretch it out again to its right height. It is now making a size 7 hat!!! I have to completely recut the brim(they come to me at 3 inches) You can literally take a size 8 hat, and make a size 7 with these bodies. I ain't joking either.

Fedora

I am working on one now, and I hit it with too much steam when I had it on the block and was trying to get the wrinkles out of the crown. So, one shot too many and I instantly had a 5 inch open crown hat!!!

So, I take that short body(a size 60 body) and I am having to totally remake the hat, and stretch it out again to its right height. It is now making a size 7 hat!!! I have to completely recut the brim(they come to me at 3 inches) You can literally take a size 8 hat, and make a size 7 with these bodies. I ain't joking either

Wow, they aren't the highest quality are they? As nice as mine behaves is I'm wondering how long it will last this way. Oh well, I'll just hope it lasts until I get an AB!

*Gulp*

As a guy who's waiting on a Magnoli HJ, I can't help but wonder if that's my hat that's causing you the trouble, Steve...

(I know that's it's a little ridiculous for me to think that, of course... I realize Steve has a long queue of Magnoli Hats waiting to take shape... but since I'm chompin' at the bit for mine, it's hard to read "I am working on one now..." from Steve and NOT get a little bit excited...)

...You guys who've done your time waiting for your hats DO know where I'm coming from on this, don'tcha?

But like you said, indyrocks: "...just hope it lasts until I get an AB*"
Amen to that.


*(or, more specifically in my case - and in keeping with the original theme of this thread: An AB "Straight-Sided Special")

Mitch LaRue wrote:*Gulp*

As a guy who's waiting on a Magnoli HJ, I can't help but wonder if that's my hat that's causing you the trouble, Steve...

(I know that's it's a little ridiculous for me to think that, of course... I realize Steve has a long queue of Magnoli Hats waiting to take shape... but since I'm chompin' at the bit for mine, it's hard to read "I am working on one now..." from Steve and NOT get a little bit excited...)

...You guys who've done your time waiting for your hats DO know where I'm coming from on this, don'tcha?

But like you said, indyrocks: "...just hope it lasts until I get an AB" (or, more specifically in my case - and in keeping with the original theme of this thread: An AB "Straight-Sided Special")
Amen to that.

Hah yeah I wouldn't worry Mitch I'm sure Steve will get yours to you whether or not he has to re-do that one due to shrinkage. I think you'll be very pleased with it once you get it but should definitely be ready to accept the fact that it WILL need a re-block eventually and who knows how many of those they can withstand. Just never wear it in the rain!

However I've noticed now that I've had it for some time I've ceased to "baby" as much as before and it's really starting to take on some nice character after being tossed around a bit.

Ok I realize this is a bit tangential here, my apologies. Back to the topic at hand.....

Fedora wrote:

You mentioned that the current HJ's are "closer" in felt quality to the vintage ones than you've seen in the past.

Qualitywise, the current ones fall way short of the vintage HJs. But this of course is to be expected. I have actually seen a slight change in the current bodies I am using over what I first got from HJ. The current ones seem to be thinner. But, the felt looks the same. Still very unstable, that much has not changed.

I am working on one now, and I hit it with too much steam when I had it on the block and was trying to get the wrinkles out of the crown. So, one shot too many and I instantly had a 5 inch open crown hat!!!

So, I take that short body(a size 60 body) and I am having to totally remake the hat, and stretch it out again to its right height. It is now making a size 7 hat!!! I have to completely recut the brim(they come to me at 3 inches) You can literally take a size 8 hat, and make a size 7 with these bodies. I ain't joking either.

Fedora

there goes my idea of ordering a 62 and shrinking it down to a 57.......i was hoping that would be it for shrinking. if she's still got some shrinkage in her, i'm not gonna spend that much coin to find out. i wish i could get a raw hat body from HJ that tis 6" open crown with a 6" brim.......then i'd blast it with steam and see how much it withers up.....might end up with a nice stable hj felt hat.......heaven forbid!!!

G just get Magnoli to send you a felt body, or is that not possible?

indyrocks wrote:Ok I realize this is a bit tangential here, my apologies.

(I STILL appreciate the encouraging words - and positive vibe - indyrocks!)

And have no fear...
After reading what you wrote about the positive effect removing the "babying" from hat care can have on the look of your HJ... I've dedicated myself to letting it discover it's own character through REAL LIFE wear!

indyrocks wrote:G just get Magnoli to send you a felt body, or is that not possible?

i don't think indy gets his materials in that raw of state. what would be key is to contact the felt supplier which i think is curry (not sure though). but i extremely doubt they'd send me one or two bodies.

Mitch LaRue wrote:

indyrocks wrote:Ok I realize this is a bit tangential here, my apologies.

(I STILL appreciate the encouraging words - and positive vibe - indyrocks!)

And have no fear...
After reading what you wrote about the positive effect removing the "babying" from hat care can have on the look of your HJ... I've dedicated myself to letting it discover it's own character through REAL LIFE wear!

YES that's the attitude. I'm always pretty careful with it and handle it by the brim but hey, Indy's didn't get the SOC look by gingerly caressing the thing! I'm stoked for you to receive it Mitch, I know this has been a long time coming. I will be awaiting your pics.

Indiana G wrote:

indyrocks wrote:G just get Magnoli to send you a felt body, or is that not possible?

i don't think indy gets his materials in that raw of state. what would be key is to contact the felt supplier which i think is curry (not sure though). but i extremely doubt they'd send me one or two bodies.

How about we meet up, find our own rabbits, and start from step one.


(I actually own a rabbit whom I love very much and sort of regret this post...)

indyrocks wrote:

Indiana G wrote:

indyrocks wrote:G just get Magnoli to send you a felt body, or is that not possible?

i don't think indy gets his materials in that raw of state. what would be key is to contact the felt supplier which i think is curry (not sure though). but i extremely doubt they'd send me one or two bodies.

How about we meet up, find our own rabbits, and start from step one.


(I actually own a rabbit whom I love very much and sort of regret this post...)

i have a chinchilla....and though 'butter's' fur would make for an awesome sea-clipper hat........i'm just not that cold hearted ;-)

I'm actually quite comforted that you both have a line you won't cross!

Mitch LaRue wrote:
I'm actually quite comforted that you both have a line you won't cross!

someone is bruce lee fan, no? ;-)

anyways....to get back OT, i believe i can recreate the truck chase hat well, but not in the nice soft floppy dress felt as i can't find a dress hat body with a 4" brim. any other suggestions? i might have to call curry in south america.......this hat is going to be pricey!!!!

G-

Couldn't you start with a body from Steve? Unmade? And then attempt to shrink it down? This would be, in effect, stabilizing it right? Even more stable than what Steve does correct? Or would you need to actually start with the raw body to do this properly?

indyrocks wrote:G-

Couldn't you start with a body from Steve? Unmade? And then attempt to shrink it down? This would be, in effect, stabilizing it right? Even more stable than what Steve does correct? Or would you need to actually start with the raw body to do this properly?

i get my hat bodies from the same place what's different in the equation is our blocks. steve's block probably does not eat as much felt up as my clunky 360 block....which is why a standard 6" crown/3" brim dress rabbit hat body would work for him. mine comes extremely close to the finished brim size which makes it really tricky to cut smoothly.....i wish i could get another 1" out of the hat body.

i'll call the felt supplier tomorrow and see what my options are. i was told that dress bodies do not come in any larger brim sizes....maybe there is a custom order required.

indyrocks wrote:

I am working on one now, and I hit it with too much steam when I had it on the block and was trying to get the wrinkles out of the crown. So, one shot too many and I instantly had a 5 inch open crown hat!!!

So, I take that short body(a size 60 body) and I am having to totally remake the hat, and stretch it out again to its right height. It is now making a size 7 hat!!! I have to completely recut the brim(they come to me at 3 inches) You can literally take a size 8 hat, and make a size 7 with these bodies. I ain't joking either

Wow, they aren't the highest quality are they? As nice as mine behaves is I'm wondering how long it will last this way. Oh well, I'll just hope it lasts until I get an AB!

I think different batches of felt vary in quality. The week before I got my Magnoli, Steve posted that the ones he was working on were extremely resistant to shrinkage, and that his customers who would be getting theirs the following week would have something really special. If he kept getting HJ bodies of that quality, he said he might have to make one for himself.

That was about a year ago last month and, from what I'm reading now, I guess that batch was a fluke. In any case, it's my favorite hat and I baby it anyway, just to be safe.

Jack

Riggghttt I wasn't aware that the stiffness of a felt would have an impact on whether or not the hat would taper or not...is this phenomenon a general rule or does it only occur with this shape of block with the back radius slightly lower?...


Cheers

just hope it lasts until I get an AB*"

I bought an HJ from I think Todd way back. I reblocked it, and it came in at 5 1/2 inches open crown. Now, I never wore it in the rain, but I did wear it regularly, a few times each week. Once I had stablized the felt, during the initial reblock, it actually did not taper for probably almost a year. But, when it did taper, it did it all at once. So, I pulled it over the next smaller block as I did not have time to tear the hat down and use the right sized block. With the sweat left in, and the ribbon still on it, I had to hit it with some steam to get the wrinkles out on the top of the crown, as it had tapered. Before I could iron it to set in the new shape, it had shrunk up to 5 1/4 inches. So, I left it like that, but now my head hits the top. So, I wear it high on the head. Once an HJ, or the other UK hat tapers, the ballgame is over. But, I don't baby my hats, so if a person just wore it in good weather, not too much heat, etc, these hats will look good for about a year, if you stabilize the felt when you reblock, the first time.

By the way, the hats for the UK don't come from Cury. They come from Europe. From the one and same factory. And if I have been told the truth, they dry block them!! Which explains why many times by the time the hat gets to you, it has already tapered, and they seem to do so more on the bow side for some reason. And this factory does not sell its raw bodies to my knowledge. They just make hats. My bodies come in sizes. I think this factory over there uses the same hoods, or cones for all sizes. How else could you take a size 8 hat, and make a size 7 out of it? No way to do that on my bodies. Beaver felt is expoentially harder to shrink up. I have trouble getting them to shrink 1/4 an inch while on the block. If you put an HJ on my block, and if you ironed it the amount of times it should be iron, you would be left with a 4 inch hat!!!! They are not run through the felting machines enough times is the only reason that would cause this. So, they continue felting, AFTER the hat is made. It's called cutting production costs. I am serious. Cury does the same. At least they did when I got my samples in from them, many years ago.

You know a body is good when after you block it, it doesn't want to shrink easily when you apply the water and heat to set the shape. And that is why Marc and I use pure beaver. Its the only modern felt to my knowledge that doesn't turn into a shrink machine.

And the reason we don't use rabbit. The ideal thing would be to pay alot more and have the rabbit bodies specially made, with no stiffener in the crowns. The extra runs through the felting machine, would give it enough body to hold the crease, as the felt would be denser. And stable. But, that will cost you. And you would probably have to buy a few hundred bodies in order for them to even consider doing it for you.

The rabbit I used to use was much more stable than the European hats, but, did not have the right characteristics of what a Raiders fan wants. South Africa used to make a very similiar felt to the Raider felt, but once they went under, Milano, a once great hat company had to change their supplier.

If I had 10 grand to sink into rabbit bodies, I could get the right rabbit felt made. But, I can't afford it. That opens the door for some hatter with deep pockets to really replicate the Raiders fedora in spades. That same felt can be made, if the producer was shown pics of the Raiders fedora, and you specify you want it felted the way they did in the old days. Assuming of course, they would even fool with it. But money talks. Fedora

If I had 10 grand to sink into rabbit bodies, I could get the right rabbit felt made. But, I can't afford it. That opens the door for some hatter with deep pockets to really replicate the Raiders fedora in spades. That same felt can be made, if the producer was shown pics of the Raiders fedora, and you specify you want it felted the way they did in the old days. Assuming of course, they would even fool with it. But money talks. Fedora

Man Steve...that is an interesting insight. So there's really no felt factory anywhere that would be willing to produce the rabbit felt in this way without spending a fortune?

For Indy 5 maybe someone should convince Lucas or Spielberg to make the investment. After all, $10K is chump change to them. But then again, they don't want a floppy hat do they? Oh well, I guess the quest goes on for the "Raiders fedora in spades" doesn't it Steve?

I for one wish they would go back to a floppy rabbit felt if they make an Indy 5. Provided they could retain AB as the maker, of course. Just look at the photos Steve posted of the Raiders hat and compare it to photos from CS. The rabbit felt distresses more interestingly on film; unless the costumer for CS deliberately kept those hats looking "too good." Whatever the cause, though, many fans expect to enjoy the sight of lots of wrinkles and dents in Indy's hat, but we didn't see a lot of them in CS.

I guess we can't complain too much though, as we got a great hat out of the deal-- one that's well worth waiting for. ;-)

Jack

Lemme chime in here, as this is something that I checked into when I started making hats.

I know the company that made the sweatbands for HJ "back then". I didn't use them, as they cost an arm and a leg and even my custom made roo hide sweatbands appear like a bloody bargain compared to them. What exactly is so darn special on these sweatbands that makes them think it's worth these amounts of money... I guess that is beyond even my understanding. All I can say it that the leather is VERY different from what you've ever seen before. If someone can find the post in which the AB-Dlx. is introduced, you can see it in one of my prototypes (if it's still online).

As Steve indicated, it would indeed be possible to have the felt made exactly as it was back then. But when you think that my custom beaver felt is expensive, think again. It's not about the materials alone, but also about the processing, as Steve indicated.

So, in a nutshell we COULD make an EXACT replica of the Raiders hat, but it would just be so darn expensive, that hardly anyone would be interested. You think TN's jackets are expensive? And it would NOT be in the same league as our pure beaver hats... The Henry was meant to get the best out of both world: 20% beaver to get the same feel as on a vintage rabbit felt, a sweatband that looks identical and still has a quality that can be worn on a daily basis.

Regards,

Marc

unless the costumer for CS deliberately kept those hats looking "too good."

He did indeed. Look at him misting the ribbon in that one behind the scenes dvds in the new Indy 4 DVD. Taking the distressing off the ribbon. He had a steamer on site, so he worked constantly on the hats.

And again, in the process of shooting scenes, they were quite happy not to have to fool with the hat more than was necessary. A Raiders fedora probably taught Mr. Spielberg a lesson. NO MORE FLOPPY HATS. They probably drove him nuts when he filmed Raiders. No surprise the TOD and TLC hat were stiffer. A method to the madness. I can just hear him talking to the costume designer for TOD and TLC. "I don't want to reshoot scenes because the hat wasn't looking right!!!"" Too expensive. No one ever thinks of this. I am sure some of the other samples from other vendors were probably soft and floppy. They did not make the cut. Fedora

Fedora wrote:

unless the costumer for CS deliberately kept those hats looking "too good."

He did indeed. Look at him misting the ribbon in that one behind the scenes dvds in the new Indy 4 DVD. Taking the distressing off the ribbon. He had a steamer on site, so he worked constantly on the hats.

And again, in the process of shooting scenes, they were quite happy not to have to fool with the hat more than was necessary. A Raiders fedora probably taught Mr. Spielberg a lesson. NO MORE FLOPPY HATS. They probably drove him nuts when he filmed Raiders. No surprise the TOD and TLC hat were stiffer. A method to the madness. I can just hear him talking to the costume designer for TOD and TLC. "I don't want to reshoot scenes because the hat wasn't looking right!!!"" Too expensive. No one ever thinks of this. I am sure some of the other samples from other vendors were probably soft and floppy. They did not make the cut. Fedora

And now that I think about it, I have seen some photos of older beaver AB's that had some very good "character development.". So, it's all the director's fault! (Just kidding, Mr. Spielberg ). ;-)

Jack

get my hat bodies from the same place what's different in the equation is our blocks. steve's block probably does not eat as much felt up as my clunky 360 block....which is why a standard 6" crown/3" brim dress rabbit hat body would work for him. mine comes extremely close to the finished brim size which makes it really tricky to cut smoothly.....i wish i could get another 1" out of the hat body.

Indy G, I'll give you some tips.

Apparently you are just using steam to make the bodies supple enough to stretch over your block. That won't work.

Here is what you do. Forget the steam! Get yourself a really big pot, fill it with water up to a safe level, and bring it to a boil. As soon as the bubbles start, pull on a pair of hot gloves(thick rubber) and ease the hat body down into the boiling water. Use a pair of forcepts or to tongs to submerge it. Leave it there until it is saturated, 10 to 15 seconds. Now, pull it out, drain it fast, and grab the brim and pull the body down over your block. It will stretch very easy, even over your block. Then tie it off at the bottom with a cotton cord, using a clove hitch, and pull it tight. Now, stetch your brim out to about 3 1/2 to 4 inches, getting it even by your tugs. Let it dry on the block for a few days, and there you go.

Back in the old days, they sold hats with "water blocked" on the sweatband. This is what the water block referred to. It makes for a better hat. Steam is only used because it is fast, and generally they have machines that mechanically stretch the crown and brim, using steam.

When I first started, I water blocked all of my hats. But once I found out how to use just the steam, I have done that ever since. With the method that I devised, I can get a 5 3/4 open crown out of any body from that supplier, even with a 360 block. If I need a 6 inch crown, out comes the boiling water. 5 3/4 is max with these bodies, using steam.

Try this and I think you will be truly amazed at what the boiling water does to any felt. And you will have a rare hat today. A water blocked hat. Fedora

steve, thank you very much for that tip. i very much wanted to work with a dress hat body in rabbit but thought it was unusable given the brim sizes they come in. now i have something to try out. i have managed to block one and i really liked the texture and floppiness of it. if i could finish a hat like that, i would be extremely happy......that's for giving me the hope, sir!

cheers,



gil

but thought it was unusable given the brim sizes they come in.

Yeah, basically you will create a new brim break, and the boiling water allows you to do this without problems such as wrinkles in the brim. You pull those wrinkles out when you pull the brim out to a dimension larger than your final desired dimension. And, the extra width allows for the shrinkage that will occur it it dries. Fedora