Todd VS Wested

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:41 pm

Ahhhh... Well, then disregard, and my apologies. I officially have no complaints about it

. Also, nevermind the pm.

Indiana Rich · Post by **Indiana Rich** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:53 pm

Puppetboy,

What sizes are in stock right now?

Thanks

IR

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:01 pm

Are most people who are having sizing issues on the Todds Standard due to the body length of the jacket being too short, the sleeves being too short/long, or the chest area being too tight?

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:03 pm

I haven't had a sizing issue yet- just a measurement issue so far...

Once the jacket arrives, I will check the fit carefully with the photos I have collected before I pass judgement...

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:03 pm

As I understand it, Todd's jackets (both versions) are the most accurate Raiders jackets yet produced. As you may know, they were developed from the original specs of the G&B, which in turn was created from a screen used stunt jacket, and Todd did additional research (as we are reading about here) to achieve even greater accuracy. A little searching on other threads will fill in a lot of the details.

Not clear on this. If the G&B is an EXACT duplicate of a stunt jacket used in the film, what could be more accurate?

At the risk of sounding like a professor of archaeology, since there were multiple jackets, some of which apparently varied greatly in their details from other screen-used jackets worn by either HF or other stuntmen, if the G&B is an exact copy of the jacket shown to them, then the other jackets by definition could not be more SA, only SA to a different jacket, right?

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:05 pm

bobjones wrote:
As I understand it, Todd's jackets (both versions) are the most accurate Raiders jackets yet produced. As you may know, they were developed from the original specs of the G&B, which in turn was created from a screen used stunt jacket, and Todd did additional research (as we are reading about here) to achieve even greater accuracy. A little searching on other threads will fill in a lot of the details.
Not clear on this. If the G&B is an EXACT duplicate of a stunt jacket used in the film, what could be more accurate?

At the risk of sounding like a professor of archaeology, since there were multiple jackets, some of which apparently varied greatly in their details from other screen-used jackets worn by either HF or other stuntmen, if the G&B is an exact copy of the jacket shown to them, then the other jackets by definition could not be more SA, only SA to a different jacket, right?

The G&B was altered slightly over time due to customer requests.

Jack

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:16 pm

The G&B was altered slightly over time due to customer requests.

Interesting. I don't know about the SA Fanatics, but if G&B said to themselves, "we can either make a jacket with better specs that's more durable, or one that is more accurate to the materials used in the film" - I would take durability 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

I don't understand it, unless you are a performer for kids' b-day parties, or just wear the jacket to conventions or at the occasional Indiana Jones movie premieres, why would anyone NOT want a more durable product?

These items aren't like fifty bucks - we're talking what, $400 - $700 per jacket, depending on manufacturer?

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:20 pm

bobjones wrote: I don't understand it, unless you are a performer for kids' b-day parties, or just wear the jacket to conventions or at the occasional Indiana Jones movie premieres, why would anyone NOT want a more durable product?

Amen to that! But you forgot to add "play dress-up in the basement".

eazybox · Post by **eazybox** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:23 pm

bobjones wrote:
The G&B was altered slightly over time due to customer requests.
Interesting. I don't know about the SA Fanatics, but if G&B said to themselves, "we can either make a jacket with better specs that's more durable, or one that is more accurate to the materials used in the film" - I would take durability 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

I don't understand it, unless you are a performer for kids' b-day parties, or just wear the jacket to conventions or at the occasional Indiana Jones movie premieres, why would anyone NOT want a more durable product?

These items aren't like fifty bucks - we're talking what, $400 - $700 per jacket, depending on manufacturer?

The Standard is a lot more durable than you might think. One of them recently survived some pretty extreme torture tests, and mine has held up quite well under normal use, which is all I and most of us would really need it to do.

Jack

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:21 pm

bobjones wrote:
At the risk of sounding like a professor of archaeology, since there were multiple jackets, some of which apparently varied greatly in their details from other screen-used jackets worn by either HF or other stuntmen, if the G&B is an exact copy of the jacket shown to them, then the other jackets by definition could not be more SA, only SA to a different jacket, right?

Such are the things that try men's souls.

JC1972 · Post by **JC1972** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:16 pm

I would've bought Todd's jacket for $150 but they don't make long/tall sizes.

Raider S · Post by **Raider S** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:28 pm

I think Todd's would sell even more if they did offer some talls and a larger xlarge.

PSBIndy · Post by **PSBIndy** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:48 am

If I wear a Wested size 44R, should I get a size L or XL or XXL for Todd's?

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:54 am

I would order an XL. Mine is a large, and man I would not want it any smaller! It's a perfect fit for me, I've posted pics you can check out if you like. I usually wear a 40 or 42R, but for a 44 I would go a size up in a Coyles jacket.

Weston

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:18 am

PLATON wrote:
CM, I see your point.
I speak from my experience with a G&B cowhide A-2 with dacron lining.
It always gave me sweat while wested never did.

Did you have a Wested A-2? What the heck are you talking about anyway? An A-2 is a warmer jacket than an Indiana Jones jacket period.

One of the reasons dacron is used as lining is because it is warm, warmer than cotton perhaps. Its characteristings and qualities as a liner would have to be better than cotton's, e.g. better INSULATION, otherwise manufacturers all over the world wouldn't have switched from cotton to dacron or other similar materials. Also, I guess dacron is cheaper. So, why would Wested, who traditionally make cheap products, prefer to use cotton?

How did you reach the conclusion that A-2 is warmer than Indiana Jones jacket? Because of the cuffs and waistband? I wear the A-2 unzipped and my back becomes sweaty. Don't tell me this effect is a result of the cuffs and waistband.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:50 am

My manufacturer friends tell me that the main reason (apart from cost) polyester is used for leather jacket lining is its strength. It is more abrasion resistant than cotton and easier to whipe down with a wet cloth. To get a cotton as strong requires going up to a thick twill which is more costly and harder to sew and work - adding again to costing and time. Warmth is not a factor. That's what I hear, anyway...

bobjones · Post by **bobjones** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:47 am

CM wrote:My manufacturer friends tell me that the main reason (apart from cost) polyester is used for leather jacket lining is its strength. It is more abrasion resistant than cotton and easier to whipe down with a wet cloth. To get a cotton as strong requires going up to a thick twill which is more costly and harder to sew and work - adding again to costing and time. Warmth is not a factor. That's what I hear, anyway...

Agreed, polyester doesn't absorb water like cotton, so depending upon the weave might be hotter than cotton. - nothing to wick the sweat away as its just trapped against one's skin.

Also cotton pills and is less durable than poly, even though poly is cheaper. But even with all these faults, I would still prefer an all-cotton to an all-polyester lining, just too hot. This is what interests me about the G&B, where they have a poly-twill combo lining that seems to be the best of both worlds.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:56 am

bobjones wrote:
CM wrote:My manufacturer friends tell me that the main reason (apart from cost) polyester is used for leather jacket lining is its strength. It is more abrasion resistant than cotton and easier to whipe down with a wet cloth. To get a cotton as strong requires going up to a thick twill which is more costly and harder to sew and work - adding again to costing and time. Warmth is not a factor. That's what I hear, anyway...
Agreed, polyester doesn't absorb water like cotton, so depending upon the weave might be hotter than cotton. - nothing to wick the sweat away as its just trapped against one's skin.

Also cotton pills and is less durable than poly, even though poly is cheaper. But even with all these faults, I would still prefer an all-cotton to an all-polyester lining, just too hot. This is what interests me about the G&B, where they have a poly-twill combo lining that seems to be the best of both worlds.

The Wested cotton does not pill, it's more a 'linen' type of finish as opposed to a 'flannel' type.

I have had both cotton and full satin. The satin is more luxurious but does tend to be slightly more moisture retaining. It feels like a nice suit jacket lining. The satin also seems slightly less strong. But this is only from my experience. After about 2 1/2 years almost daily wear the edges of the tail flaps wore through. I had it replaced with cotton and it's good as new.

You can of course request a nylon lining if yo want. That's very strong.

A poly twill may become available in a little while, the new denim jackets have a poly twill lining.

kiltie · Post by **kiltie** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:15 am

I still think so...
It's like the grey/brown hat thing; I can't let it go. Somebody help me out here. Where's defloria? Dude, what are the sliders on that jacket made of?

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:42 pm

They are metal and quite sturdy. A little of the black paint has flaked of the edge and you can see it shinning through.

Weston

delfloria · Post by **delfloria** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:56 am

I was at comic con. Now I'm back. Yes, the sliders are metal. Lightweight but metal. Be careful on the sizing and carefully read Todd's measurments. I'm 5'9 and usually wear a medium or large in a jacket but realized from Todd's sizing I would need an x-large which surprized the heck out of me. I followed his measurements and you have seen the results.

theman · Post by **theman** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:06 am

I find it funny that my little comment of the lining created all this havoc.

Personally that just makes my el cheapo jacket all that much better, and am happy to be shown where it might be considered a more satin-like lining.
Also glad to see that those plastic sliders are metal underneath.

I wear a 44R normally, and that's what my Westeds have been, and my Todd's XL fits just as it should IMO. I'm about 6' 195-200lbs

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:54 am

Agreed, polyester doesn't absorb water like cotton,

I think this phrase says it all.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:46 am

PLATON wrote:
Agreed, polyester doesn't absorb water like cotton,
I think this phrase says it all.

Of course, visit any good hiking shop and you'll find most of the shirts are polyester precisely because they wick water away. If the poly is spun and woven correctly it does a much better job in every way to cotton - from wear to breathability to water expulsion. Today's hi tech materials have very little "old school" charm but they do an amazing job.

But if the screen used one had a poly satin liner, I would imagine it was the old, cheaper materials and not all that strong or comfortable.

Sorry for the digression.

G

Jones Boy · Post by **Jones Boy** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:27 am

J!m wrote:I haven't had a sizing issue yet- just a measurement issue so far...

Once the jacket arrives, I will check the fit carefully with the photos I have collected before I pass judgement...

Hey J!m,

How was your Todd's jacket for size, etc?

Any chance of some pics?

Cheers
Jonesy

JimL · Post by **JimL** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:35 am

Hi, no pics, but I did make another post with careful measurements of the jacket once I had it.

I am a true 44 (chest measures 43.5 inches) and normally wear a 44L of the rack, if the sleeves are OK. This varies by brand too.

Todds size tried was XL.

As I recall, the body was snug, perhaps a tiny bit too tight (44 is the upper end of the suggested size range by Todd for the XL by the way- see his site- I took the chance as I prefer a snugger, fitted look) in the shoulders, and when zipped, could sometimes appear 'pulled' from the top of the shoulders to the chest center at the zipper (so ~45 degre angle 'wrinkles' from the pull acros the chest- like a "V", but not all the time). It sounds worse than it is when I spell it out like that... If you were a true size 42 regular, I think it would be perfect. it might be fine for a 42L as well, dependant on your body length, as there is a bit of material in the sleeve to let them out a bit if needed. The body did appear slightly too short for me as well, which is what convinced me to send it back. I beleive a Todds XXL will fit me well, but they are backordered as far as I know right now.

Anyway, check the posts I made, and you will find that. I think it was called "accurate Todds Standard Measurements" and the intent was that others would add the exact measurements of their Todds in the other sizes as well.

I think it distorted into some other thread, as they often do...

If you have a hard time locating it, I can dig through my posts and copy the measurement info here. (I'd just rather not do that, as I don't like to be the guy who distorts a thread, although I am as guilty as the next guy at times).

Best regards,