Club Obi Wan

Ah yes, I once posted a whole lot of pics from Jeeves and Wooster!!

Hey, I wish you would do it again. I only had time to catch a glimpse of the hat on U Tube, but from what I saw, it was very Raiders looking. I would love to see some stills of this hat. Wonder what brand of hat it was? Anyone know? Fedora

Aeris_Canon wrote:

It's nice to have the "block" back, no matter what they did with it.

The original block never left.

AC / Tone,

I am very curious as to what you base this claim on, given the rather substantial amount of evidence to the contrary. Are you basing it solely on that one collage of photos, showing 4 photos of the Raiders hat and only 1 photo each of LC and ToD?

I'm not trying to bait you into some sort of heated argument here or anything...my curiousity is genuine and I'm trying to keep an open mind. I've often thought that perhaps there were more similarities between the Tod/LC block and the Raiders block than most people either realized or cared to admit, and that perhaps the turn and bash/style had something to do with the perceived differences. Yet I still see too many differences in each hat to believe they all share a common block.

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is what does this all mean? What implications would this theory have if it somehow turns out to be true? Let's say that all 3 films did use the same exact block on the various HJ's. Does that, in turn, mean that the current HJ block, which most folks are content to call the "LC" blockshape, is actually a Raiders block, that has been right under our noses all of these years?

-GCR

It can't be, the Raiders block is too strait sided to be the same as TOD or LC.

IndyFan89 wrote:It can't be, the Raiders block is too strait sided to be the same as TOD or LC.

IS it really?

The Raiders hat wasn't as straight sided as most people think.

Dutch_jones wrote:

IndyFan89 wrote:It can't be, the Raiders block is too strait sided to be the same as TOD or LC.

IS it really?

The Raiders hat wasn't as straight sided as most people think.

Really? Actually, you're right, it was tapered. REVERSE tapered, that is.
'Blues

Not sure why it would be so hard to grasp that the two blocks could be different. The block (and other tools!) used to make a hat by a hand is almost certain to be different than a block that's used in a factory process. I also don't see why folks think that HJ would be quite as concerned with maintaining the same block shape over the years as we are. The design and manufacture of clothing (and everything else manufactured) changes all the time. Why not the shape of the Poet's crown?

Dutch_jones wrote:

IndyFan89 wrote:It can't be, the Raiders block is too strait sided to be the same as TOD or LC.

IS it really?

The Raiders hat wasn't as straight sided as most people think.

In some scenes, there is a definite taper to the Raiders hat, when viewed from certain angles. From what I have seen, ALL of the instances of the hat looking tapered are from hats used during interior (studio) filming, and all have an extremely deep center dent. I can find no trace of taper on any of the hats used in any of the exterior (location) scenes (Peru waterfall, Hovitos chase, Cairo, Flying wing, Truck chase, etc.). It's entirely possible all of the interior hats had their center dents bashed a bit too deep (sure looks that way in some scenes, like the Well of Souls) or simply that the interior hats had more time to sit around and shrink since the exterior shots were done first.

After all, is it not easier to get a tapered look from a Raiders blocked hat (through manipulating the bash) than to get a Raiders look from a hat with a tapered block?

-GCR

Dutch_jones wrote:

IndyFan89 wrote:It can't be, the Raiders block is too strait sided to be the same as TOD or LC.

IS it really?

The Raiders hat wasn't as straight sided as most people think.

Having turned most of my fedoras in the past, I can tell you that a turned hat will look tapered from one particular angle. It's a 3/4 view from the front with the head turned to show more of the non-bow side. The reason for this is the way in which the oval of the crown is distorted by the turn making it appear to bulge more to one side. The oval opening is pulled outwards where the upper part of the craown isn't. From this particular angle the hat appears tapered - but as soon as the view changes, the hat is clearly not tapered. It's hard to describe like this - but I've witnessed it on all my turned hats - even brand new (and clearly not tapered) Abs

Not sure why it would be so hard to grasp that the two blocks could be different. The block (and other tools!) used to make a hat by a hand is almost certain to be different than a block that's used in a factory process.

It is easier to grasp this idea, if you knew how HJ sourced their hats, over time, and during this period of say, late 70's to today.

Personally, this is what I think, from little tidbits of info over the years, and from my and Marc's communication with HJ at various times, and last but not least, from just studying the various film hats over time.

Ok, I think that when the Raiders fedora was made for Deborah, they took a stock hat from the store shelf, and the reports state, it was a tall crown wide brim hat, the Australian model. She does not say Poet!! Swales, at a much later time, said that is what he used.

They put a narrower ribbon on it, and tweaked the hat to fit Harrison, or to look good on him. She never mentions the dimensional cut, but apparently, she must have requested it, because this is a rare brim in the world of hats. And some will remember anecdotal quotes from Swales that were posted on Indy Fan years ago, in regards to the whys of doing the unusual brim.


Now, I believe that the hat Swales used to create the first hat, is not the same hat he used to create the TOD fedora, and even TLC fedora. And there can be various reasons for this. First, and foremost, it could have been one of HJs hats that they no longer sold when the next film came out. Remember, the hat business was almost nonexistent at this time. There is no telling how long those hats had been there, as I doubt they would throw away hats, due to any shelf life involved. Since the manner of sweatband attachment, felt, and ribbon work is totally different from the TOD and TLC hats, we have to assume that Mr. Swales probably, with help, worked these hats up. Remember, we know from Deborah that they had the wider ribbon changed out.

Now, the lack of factory stitching at the sweatband attachment points separates this hat too, from what came after it. So, it is logical to think, that either something made Swales remove the sweats and then hand sew them back in, or the hats he used were not made by the same factory that made the TOD and TLC hats. If Swales had to remove the sweats, that means he was changing the crown in some manner. Which would lead me to think, he changed the blockshape, from its stock appearance. And if so, then this would account for the difference.

But, if a different factory, (let's say the HJ factory made this hat), then this could account for the difference of the blockshape too, along with the difference in the way the Raiders sweatband was attached. In either scenerio, the difference in blocks, sweatband attachment, and ribbonwork is explainable. And, I must add that my HJ from the 70's, had a handsewn in sweatband, with the sticthes well abve the brim break.
The Raiders fedora, may have been the last real HJ that was sold. which takes me to my next point.


I believe that the Raiders HJ was a REAL HJ. That is, an HJ that was indistinguishable from what HJ produced for a hundred years or so. The people here that are really interested in this, really need to buy every vintage HJ that comes up for sale on ebay. And then examine those hats. You will learn alot from this experience. You will learn that the way that HJ makes hats now, and even in the 80's and 90's is NOT the way they made hats in the 70's. This little bit of verifiable info, may influence your own ideas of these 3 film hats.

So, if the Raider HJ, was a REAL HJ, what were the hats that followed it? This is what I think. And while I cannot prove it, certain tidbits of info I have gleaned over the years, support it strongly. I think that between Raiders and TOD, HJ outsourced their hats. We do know for a fact that at least 2 different factories have made their hats since this board has been up and running.

So, they furnished the Raiders fedora, and then when TOD came, they had the oursourced hat on the shelves. Now, the original blocks used to make the old HJs, and they had several different blockshapes of course, may have been thrown out in the trash. They may have been sold, or they may have been burned as fire place wood.

In the place of the REAL HJ was a hat made by someone else, with different construction techniques, with one being the sweatband being sewn on just a hair above the brim break. This factory would not have had HJs old blocks, but would do what factories do, and get it as close as their block collection will allow. And I believed that this indeed is what happened, and it explains the differences some of us see between the Raiders fedora and the TOD, and even TLC fedora.

So, the Raiders fedora was not made by the same folks who made what came after Raiders. And therin lies the mystery or how one Poet can look so different from another Poet.

It can't be, the Raiders block is too strait sided to be the same as TOD or LC.

IS it really?

The Raiders hat wasn't as straight sided as most people think.

If you are hinting that all blocks were the same, please go see you eye doc for a checkup. If you can't see the difference, you must be blind in one eye, and can't see out of the other one.

I am putting smilies here, because I am ribbin' you. I am well aware that some people just don't see what I see.

If you mean though that we caricature the straightness, I will agree to a point. The Raiders block was NOT an exact stovepipe with a dome on top. But, it wasn't tapered to the degree than most blocks are. At least most of the blocks that one sees today from modern hatters. These days, you see alot of what I call 'domey" blocks. Domey blocks make great telescope crowns, and Bogie crowns, and deep creased teardrop crowns. That is what domey blocks were designed for. The Raiders blockshape was really old, and open crown hats were worn alot when this block was made originally in the late 1800s. Most open crowned hats, were not domey. The Raiders fedora is not a domey block. It was fairly straight sided as viewed from the front and back, and had a medium dome, the dome that looks good on an open crowned hat. When you style this sort of hat, you end up with the Raiders look, as opposed to the American teardrop crowns of the 40's and 50's. Add some taper to the sides and you get the TOD and TLC fedora. Fedora

You guys are frickin crazy... That is INDIANA JONES. The Hat is THE Hat. Everyone knows that in each film, in almost every scene the hat is a little, or a lot, different. This hat is as close as possible a mixture of all those differences and still looks most like ROTLA.

Honestly you guys are weird...

Steve and Marc did an oustanding job, I can't believe people are criticising it on any level. I own an AB from Steve, its so good Im afraid to wear it. I hope this long discussion only helps to understand the original hats more, but for goodness sakes, the KOTCS Hat is amazing.

What, is an HJ Poet?

Sincerely,

Dr.Seuss wrote:What, is an HJ Poet?

Sincerely,

I think thats the style of hat used in Raiders but i'm probably wrong. I'm still a newb at all this.

Ha! Learn something new every day, huh...

Funny what you say, Steve, about the Raiders ribbon being switched out according to Deborah N. When I bought my first HJ in 84 it came with a ribbon that was 1 3/4" inches wide.

Now I know why!

You, what amazes me the most is this. We see this one type of fedora in Raiders.

Then, TOD comes out, and we see something that most of us would say is totally different.

And then someone says, yeah, same hat, the HJ Poet.

Now, to me it bears little resemblence. So, the question always has been, what in the heck went on? Why do 2 Poets look so different? Not only in blockshape, but ribbon work as well. And the sweats were sewn on differently.

And then more questions. Like this. Why did the costumer for TOD not crease the hat the same as Deborah did? I mean, she said the hat was very important. It had to be "everyman's hat" but seen in profile, immediately recognizable as the hero hat.

Do you think the new costumer just called up Swales and told him to send him 36 hats like he made for the first film? And if so, why did not Swales send him the hats like he made for the first film, instead of the tapered hat of TOD? Something went on here, and it does not make sense.

I mean, I know what Marc and I made for KOTCS. If asked to do it again, we would send the exact same hat!!

I can almost see a devious smile forming on Mr. Swales face. "I will fix the Yanks up, yes indeed. This first hat has been too much of a bother with commoners coming in here asking for that Indy hat. Well, I think I can stop that! So, he makes the worse possible hat to put the hero in, thinking this would stop the madness, and make his job alot easier.

Now that is not based upon anything but my vivid imagination. But that is what the lack of info produces. Conjecture.

I don't know for sure what happened between, Raiders and TOD. But I do know one thing. The hat changed, and it changed drastically. And that sort of change has to have a huge reason at the bottom of it. And the TOD costumer was not very good at his craft. At least the new costumer LOOKED and studied before he got his costume together! Why in the heck did Powell not do so for TOD? Unless, of course, he was at the mercy of Swales. I could see him calling Swales and ordering exactly what he made for Deborah, and then NOT getting it! The hats come in, the filming is about to start, and he has to use them!!


The fault dear Brutus may indeed lie at the little HJ shop. 3M$ may be right. Deborah already had a hat she was working with, if you believe anecdotal reports. She already had a bit of a vision of what she thought the hat should look like. Perhaps the stock Poet was too tapered for her. Perhaps she mentioned this to Swales. Perhaps he said, " I can fix that" and then used that stretcher(the one I don't have) to straighten up the sides of this hat.

Now, in my other long winded post, I mentioned the supplier change as possibly being the reason, but we can't discount the idea that 3M$ brought up. And of course, he started thinking about this when some fan posted that he had been told this by the current HJ folks, or the SAB folks that own the HJ name now. That Swales had modified the hats, using a stretcher.

Now, there is a stretcher that I do not own. I own two, but the one that resembles the Raiders block the most, with the really straight sides all the way around, I do not own, and hence have never been able to see if it would lend the Raiders block, using the current Poet block from SAB. But, theoretically, it could yield that shape. Once you crank the stretcher out, you basically have a hat block.

I think I have covered what did happen in my speculation. I just don't know which speculation is the true one.


Now, does anyone else have some creative speculations that we have not talked about? Or, or you totally burned out talking about it? I am not. Even after all of these years, it still burns within me, but doesn't keep me awake at night like it once did.

And, am I missing something? Does anyone know of anything else that has not been mentioned in this thread? I know several folks talked to Mr. Swales over the years, but none ever asked him the right questions. But then again, perhaps he just does not remember. I mean, if the costumer for TOD could not provide continuity with the Raiders hat, would we expect Swales to do so?

It has been decades since the Raiders hat was created. If anyone ever talks to Deborah again, they need to ask her one question. WHY, did the TOD fedora share nothing in common with the Raiders fedora? If both were HJ Poets. We know that she wasn't the best business person, due to what happened to the original Raiders costume. But, she was the best costumer to date, so apparently her skills were in costuming and NOT the business end. But that is understandable. She was so young at the time. And Hollywood used to make their own hats too. Each studio used to have their own hat shop, or so I was told. Fedora

Perhaps this is why some of those Raiders hats tend to have the Poet block visible on the hat's perimiter.

Perhaps, but a real logical explanation could be, as the film progressed, the hat tapered!! That is something that all can relate to. And also something what would indeed make alot of sense. When, they got a new hat off the shelf, the taper vanished. Occams razor is right, much of the time. A tapered Raiders block is indistinguisable from the Poet blocks as most of us know the Poet block. Fedora

Fedora wrote:

Perhaps this is why some of those Raiders hats tend to have the Poet block visible on the hat's perimiter.

Perhaps, but a real logical explanation could be, as the film progressed, the hat tapered!! That is something that all can relate to. And also something what would indeed make alot of sense. When, they got a new hat off the shelf, the taper vanished. Occams razor is right, much of the time. A tapered Raiders block is indistinguisable from the Poet blocks as most of us know the Poet block. Fedora

Maybe the film hats were indeed streched by Swales and there has never been a "Raiders" block at all?
Then, during filming of Raiders the hats just went back to their original block shape?

Maybe the film hats were indeed streched by Swales and there has never been a "Raiders" block at all?
Then, during filming of Raiders the hats just went back to their original block shape?

Anything is possible I guess. Of course, we still have to explain away the vintage HJ that I sold to Pagey. Raiders block, and it predates the film. I know for a fact that HJ had the straight block, with the medium dome, because I owned one. I have owned two. I have also owned what I call the TOD HJ, that was made before any of the films were made. Sometimes you gotta put 2 and 2 together..... and this one reason I have been so consistent with my opinon. When you actually hold in your hand, HJs that had the same block as I see on the film, it kinda makes you think it was a different hat, and it existed! Know what I mean?

But, I think even if I were to send that hat around the circle, there would still be folks who would question this blockshape issue. Humans are like that. I don't lose any sleep over it though. I am just as fallible as the next guy. And in the big picture, this stuff is NOT IMPORTANT. Interesting, but not that important. Fedora

Fedora wrote:

Maybe the film hats were indeed streched by Swales and there has never been a "Raiders" block at all?
Then, during filming of Raiders the hats just went back to their original block shape?

Anything is possible I guess. Of course, we still have to explain away the vintage HJ that I sold to Pagey. Raiders block, and it predates the film. I know for a fact that HJ had the straight block, with the medium dome, because I owned one. I have owned two. I have also owned what I call the TOD HJ, that was made before any of the films were made. Sometimes you gotta put 2 and 2 together..... and this one reason I have been so consistent with my opinon. When you actually hold in your hand, HJs that had the same block as I see on the film, it kinda makes you think it was a different hat, and it existed! Know what I mean?

But, I think even if I were to send that hat around the circle, there would still be folks who would question this blockshape issue. Humans are like that. I don't lose any sleep over it though. I am just as fallible as the next guy. And in the big picture, this stuff is NOT IMPORTANT. Interesting, but not that important. Fedora

I have to say, I personally feel this is the most significant post on this topic to date. The vintage HJ’s out there, with THE Raiders block, that pre-date the film itself, are pretty much the “smoking gun”. The Raiders block existed, I think that’s pretty evident based on those vintage HJ hats.

The other significant thing here, which I think cannot be stressed enough is the fact that it really ISN’T that important. Even if, through some strange set of inexplicable circumstances, the HJs shared the same block-shape throughout the original trilogy, does it really matter now? It has already been proven that it is next to impossible to get a decent Raiders look from the current HJ block. So even if the current HJ block was actually the block used for Raiders (which I highly doubt) it seems clear that if you’re looking for a hat that actually embodies the look of the hat seen on screen, you have to look elsewhere, as the HJ just doesn’t cut it. Meanwhile, other fedora options out there have the Raiders look perfected, whether it's totally, 100% accurate to the actual film-used hat or not, it just LOOKS more accurate. And that is the most important thing, LOOKING accurate. Most folks are more concerned with being accurate to what was seen on screen, rather than what was actually used, hence the term "screen accurate". After all, if the hat was actually blue but just looked brown on film, for whatever reason, I, personally, would still want a brown hat.

-GCR

GCR wrote:

Fedora wrote:

Maybe the film hats were indeed streched by Swales and there has never been a "Raiders" block at all?
Then, during filming of Raiders the hats just went back to their original block shape?

Anything is possible I guess. Of course, we still have to explain away the vintage HJ that I sold to Pagey. Raiders block, and it predates the film. I know for a fact that HJ had the straight block, with the medium dome, because I owned one. I have owned two. I have also owned what I call the TOD HJ, that was made before any of the films were made. Sometimes you gotta put 2 and 2 together..... and this one reason I have been so consistent with my opinon. When you actually hold in your hand, HJs that had the same block as I see on the film, it kinda makes you think it was a different hat, and it existed! Know what I mean?

But, I think even if I were to send that hat around the circle, there would still be folks who would question this blockshape issue. Humans are like that. I don't lose any sleep over it though. I am just as fallible as the next guy. And in the big picture, this stuff is NOT IMPORTANT. Interesting, but not that important. Fedora

I have to say, I personally feel this is the most significant post on this topic to date. The vintage HJ’s out there, with THE Raiders block, that pre-date the film itself, are pretty much the “smoking gun”. The Raiders block existed, I think that’s pretty evident based on those vintage HJ hats.

The other significant thing here, which I think cannot be stressed enough is the fact that it really ISN’T that important. Even if, through some strange set of inexplicable circumstances, the HJs shared the same block-shape throughout the original trilogy, does it really matter now? It has already been proven that it is next to impossible to get a decent Raiders look from the current HJ block. So even if the current HJ block was actually the block used for Raiders (which I highly doubt) it seems clear that if you’re looking for a hat that actually embodies the look of the hat seen on screen, you have to look elsewhere, as the HJ just doesn’t cut it. Meanwhile, other fedora options out there have the Raiders look perfected, whether it's totally, 100% accurate to the actual film-used hat or not, it just LOOKS more accurate. And that is the most important thing, LOOKING accurate. Most folks are more concerned with being accurate to what was seen on screen, rather than what was actually used, hence the term "screen accurate". After all, if the hat was actually blue but just looked brown on film, for whatever reason, I, personally, would still want a brown hat.

-GCR

I agree. I also tried to get a hat that is as screen accurate as possible in terms of materials, technics and measurements while looking good on me.

But for many people the questions is, if you want to actually wear the hat or just want it as a collectible.

If you want to wear it, it should match your face.
Since you haven't got HF's face, you shouldn't insist on crown height, brim dimensions, etc.
Instead, all those measurements should match your face, otherwise it won't look right. Even the color of the felt should match to the color of your skin.
I, personally, believe, that's how Deborah created THE hat. Matching it to HF's facial shape, hair and eye color, etc.

But, if you want it as a collectible, you want it exactly as on screen. Made from the same materials, with the same dimensions, technics and tools.

I guess, that's why the quest will never end... unless Fedora will hold one of the screen used Raiders feds in his own hands. If there're still exist...

Here is a direct quote by Swales from a letter dated 4/27/93:

"Briefly in 1982 Harrison Ford and Stephen Spielberg introduced themselves to me outlining the need for a hat of no specific date (or period) for an adventure film called Raiders of the Lost Ark. So that is how the hat started, I made approximately 40 of them for Indy and the stuntmen, and further hats for the films that followed, there were variations in the trimmings only, but the 1 1/2" ribbon remains the favoured trim."

The most interesting part to me is "there were variations in the trimmings only". But since he recalled that his first introducion to Ford and Spielberg occured the year after "Raiders" was released...who knows?

In my opinion, the Indy fedora was not a high priority for Herbert Johnson, at least as far as paying strict attention to all the minute details as we do; which may account for some of the mystery and confusion we experience when trying to unravel thie hat's history.

Jack

Flash Gordon wrote:Whichever hat is the Raiders hat is the exact same one that Hugh Laurie wears as Bertie Wooster in the old "Jeeves and Wooster" series. It's unmistakable!

This is the same Hugh Laurie that's now on "House?" I'm not familiar with that series.

Btw, FG, check your PM's re: the jacket. I *finally* logged back into this site and found your PM from July.

Trebor wrote:

Flash Gordon wrote:Whichever hat is the Raiders hat is the exact same one that Hugh Laurie wears as Bertie Wooster in the old "Jeeves and Wooster" series. It's unmistakable!

This is the same Hugh Laurie that's now on "House?" I'm not familiar with that series.

Yep. And you'll find the Brit Hugh sounds nothing in real life to the character he plays on House. He was also much younger when he played Wooster.

_ wrote:

Fedora wrote:I don't know for sure what happened between, Raiders and TOD. But I do know one thing. The hat changed, and it changed drastically. And that sort of change has to have a huge reason at the bottom of it. And the TOD costumer was not very good at his craft. At least the new costumer LOOKED and studied before he got his costume together! Why in the heck did Powell not do so for TOD? Unless, of course, he was at the mercy of Swales. I could see him calling Swales and ordering exactly what he made for Deborah, and then NOT getting it! The hats come in, the filming is about to start, and he has to use them!!

I am a jacket junkie these days, but this string and the depth of the discussion has pulled me in. I have not read everything, but one piece I would like to add - and it was a cross Anthony Powell had to carry throughout Temple - was the licensing issue. Powell had to take what the lawyer delivered with respect to jackets, and to a large degree with hats as well. Stetson and Cooper had product placement rights that were exercised. All those left over Leather Concessionaires jackets from Raiders were removed from inventory and from all accounts were destroyed, with the Cooper's replacing them. I do not believe the treatment was quite so draconian with the hats, but Stetsons were worn in Sri Lanka. It was part of the license with Stetson...

_! First I have to say good to see you!

That's very intersting about the jacket legal issues. And with the taper and look of the fed in TOD, it stands that they aren't HJs or maybe at all for most of the movie.

Even in TLC you don't see taper quite like that!


MJ

All those left over Leather Concessionaires jackets from Raiders were removed from inventory and from all accounts were destroyed, with the Cooper's replacing them. I do not believe the treatment was quite so draconian with the hats, but Stetsons were worn in Sri Lanka. It was part of the license with Stetson...

Ah, then this could indeed explain much. Stetson also placed hats in TLC too, if I recall correctly. Big ad campaign at that time from them.

Hmmm. All of this points to another hat being placed in this new film. I heard through the grapevine that DP has kept the licensing, but I can't verify this. If so, we can expect to see a DP somewhere. Should be REAL easy to spot.

But, now this is interesting. And it is factual. Stetson tried to place a hat in this new film......so that opens up the question if DP indeed kept the contract!! Doesn't sound like it to me! I said "tried", because that is exactly as I heard it. Now, logic tells me, if they tried, then they are involved someway, somehow. If so, we will all know it, as Stetson advertised in a big way if you recall. "Indy is back! And he is wearing a Stetson!" Fedora

So I guess that means DP would be advertising their hat was used in the film, while showing a picture of Ford wearing one of yours?

The thing about DP, is they are a HAT SUPPLIER. And one of the largest in the world. But, they make non of their DP branded hats. Unlike Hatco(Stetson).

I would also think that if the 5 year deal is how it is done, they would keep it for as long as they wanted. The good thing about it, is this. With the new demand for Indy fedoras the new film will create, many hat factoies around the world will be very busy. DP will just add other hat factories as suppliers. That means, some of the DPs will be better than others, as factory hats just vary in quality from factory to factory. Man, what a mix will be out there, all with the DP label. Fedora

You know, in regards to the Raiders fedora, and the taper we see in some scenes, I have found that most of my customers want a hat that looks like this from the front,



and like this from the back.




If you can pull off those two looks with the blockshape, you are in the ballpark, and have few complaints. Fedora

_ wrote:Under this agreement, Berman and Nathan's had exclusive rights and ownership of all items of wardrobe. In English? Everything Deb or anyoe else developed, procured, created, etc, became the property of Berman and Nathan's. Berman and Nathan's would then rent these items to LucasFilms for their use during production.

I think there must have been a similar agreement in place for the early Star Wars films. It would explain how this unbelievable discovery came about:

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid ... 1901192005

I wonder, has anyone here tried looking in the Angels fancy dress store for original Raiders gear? I've rented period costumes from there before. If only I'd known about the company's Raiders connection back then.

Angels and Bermans have also discovered a pair of trousers worn by the Snaggletooth in the Star Wars bar scene.

This along with the Snaggletooth shirt are owned by COW member, Wampa.

agent5 wrote:

Angels and Bermans have also discovered a pair of trousers worn by the Snaggletooth in the Star Wars bar scene.

This along with the Snaggletooth shirt are owned by COW member, Wampa.

That's interesting! So, did Wampa also inquire about Raiders gear at the time?

Although I can't speak directly for him, I doubt it because he bought it at auction.