Club Obi Wan

An observation, nothing more, nothing less. My admiration for Steve/Marc (and Steve's personal help to me in setting me "right" on reshaping my own hats) is unbridled.

If mass produced AB's are available, no lead time, modest price, quality felt, accurate block shape -- what will come to pass with this Forum's "lesser craftsmen and friends?"

Obviously capitalism/marketplace is the final arbiter of many issues, including simple desire, but if a consumer can purchase a SA hat from AB, for essentially the same price as from any "small guy," why choose the "imitation?" Whatever would prompt anyone to ever turn to a: Fed, PB, Camptown, JPD, Wolf, etc.?

Sincerely,

The ones you mention have other hat designs they sell, as well as most folks are 'brand loyal', so as I see it, this would just be another 'hat in the ring' so to speak. It's the 'official/unofficial' 'last' Indy fedora', but does NOT cover the styles of the other Indy films, leaving that part of the field wide open for other makers sales and service.

Don't forget, this is not going to be the 'do all, BE all' hat. This is just ONE of the styles used in the films to date, the KofCS hat. Nothing more.

With that in mind, it could also be a 'con' side to the standard production AB, as it does limit them to the one hat, where the other makers such as PB, JPD, Camptown, Wolf etc. can make ANY style you're after, based on any frame of those films. Only Steve and Marc can do that with a custom AB build.

I mean, look at MY avatar. I'm partical to a 'Raiders of the Temple Crusade' style myself, so this new mass production AB KofCS hat isn't affecting me or MY particular 'wants'. I can ONLY get that from a custom build, as supplied by one of the OTHER makers you mentioned.....as well as off Steve and Marc's custom bench.

So, are they really 'hurting' anyone with the introduction of this particular hat?

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson, you must be reading my mind. I have been dwelling on the very same thing. Great minds, eh?!?!?

Humm... I THOUGHT I was channeling SOMEBODYS thoughts. I was only on my first cup of coffee when I wrote that reply.

Case in point, I just edited out several repeated words in the reply.

Regards! Michaelson

Of course, the factory made hat would be the CS fedora, but since we used my new Raiders block to make this hat(they chose it over my old Raiders block and Marc's Raiders block) the CS fedora, if pinched tight in the front, and you pushed out the length of the front creases would lend the Raider fedora, without the turn. I think when we watch the new film, and the creases get moved, etc, you will notice the resemblence to the hat that started it all, the Raiders fedora. It is a Raiders block, creased differently, with no turn. It will look back, in that respect, as planned.

On pricing, we are figuring 175.00, which would come in above the Federation, where it should be. But that is putting the cart before the horse, as we are still just planning it for now. And of course, mucho work still has to be done.

On competing with the other hatmakers, honestly, this is not an issue with us. We can't worry about what any new offering will do to the other hatters. That worry would have made us never to reverse engineer the original blockshape to begin with, because it might hurt HJ, or PB, or Akubra, etc.

That Marc and I came in way down on the list of hatters they were looking at, and cinched the deal really fast, speaks well of our hats. Remember, we had alot of competition. Now, I am not bragging here, I am just stating facts, and that is a fact. So, why not mass produce the blockshape that THEY found to be the most Indyish of what they already had on hand? One of the hatters they were looking at, was given a whole month to come up with a suitable Indy fedora. They could not do it! When they got ours, they stopped looking. Our hats speak for themselves. I don't need to hype them, and neither does Marc. We did our homework guys. That's the bottom line. With alot of help from this very board. If not for COW, we would not have been the guys chosen to make the last film hat. I can't emphasize that enough. And I don't want that to ever be forgotten. We are not egocentric, and we fully recognize the contributions that were essential. This hat is a group effort, that was channeled through us. And if this factory hat ever gets off the ground, the same goes for it.

We are not really trying to do this for the members here, but rather for new Indy fans that will be created with the release of the new film. And since it is impossible to handmake enough hats for the new demand that well be seen, a factory copy is the ONLY way to go. Unless of course, we want other hatters to reap all of the benefits of the last Indy fedora. I think that we deserve some of that pie. No? Fedora

Very well stated. And, a well deserved piece of pie. Hmmmm pie.

Johnny

p.s. Dibs on factory hat 0002 :!: I'm sure you'll want to keep 0001 as a keepsake. -J

There's a lot of mention of this being the "last" Indy film. Did I miss an official announcement?

Not that I've read to date, so this has been the 'supposition'.

Regards! Michaelson

That's a relief!

There's a lot of mention of this being the "last" Indy film. Did I miss an official announcement?

I take it some think they will do one or two more? I doubt it, but that is just my opinion. Perhaps like Lucas did with the Star Wars film? I guess we will have to wait and see. I am just assuming that it is the last one. Now Robert A.M. Stephens emailed me recently and said there were to be a total of 3 new films. (Bufflehead? )

Was in common knowledge that when Lucas shot Star Wars 1, he would also have 2 and 3? When he shot 4, 5 and 6, did we know he was doing the other two with Return of the Jedi being the 3rd? I dunno, just asking here.

I thought Spielberg said he was making this Indy film for the fans.....and I guess that sorta led me to believe this was the last installment. It may tie up loose ends left hanging in the first film with Marion. Yeah, I think this is the last one, [edited for YOUR protection—Admin] Fedora

Well, the original premise of the Indy films was they were based on B-movie styled 'serial' films....the infamous 'cliffhanger'.....'did he die in this installment, or did he miss being killed by some quirk of fate? Tune in next week.....'

Did we honestly believe that Han Solo would remain frozen in carbonite at the end of the Return of the Jedi?

We thought the Alien series was a dead duck after the 3rd film. I mean, S. Weaver dropped into lava for heavens sake, vaporizing into a cloud of steam. Guess what? Aliens 4 was a BIG hit at the box office, and discussions are being made for a 5th....and yep. Weaver is interested.

All we can do is 'assume' the end, but with THAT crew, ANYTHING is possible, so personally I'll take anything I 'view' at the end of the film with a grain of salt.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Did we honestly believe that Han Solo would remain frozen in carbonite at the end of the Return of the Jedi?

Not unless we hadn't been watching, LOL - he gets thawed out near the beginning. I think you mean "The Empire Strikes Back"!

Yep, THAT'S the one!

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora wrote:

Now Robert A.M. Stephens emailed me recently and said there were to be a total of 3 new films. (Bufflehead? )
Fedora

Michaelson wrote:Well, the original premise of the Indy films was they were based on B-movie styled 'serial' films....the infamous 'cliffhanger'.....'did he die in this installment, or did he miss being killed by some quirk of fate? Tune in next week.....'

Regards! Michaelson

Yeah, but if this is the last Indy film, there is no next week. This is the last week, so what happens now?

Indy V anyone? Rumor is that Michael Crichton is penning something for a Spielberg/Ford project set in the Belgian Congo...

Posted elsewhere.

Rumors are interesting, aren't they?

Regards! Michaelson

Didn't Spielberg allude to LaBeouf participating in a few more Transformers movies before being the next Indy?

Actually, if my mind's not playing tricks on me, I think somebody asked if he was going to take over the role of Indy and Spielberg said he had more Transformers things to do before he can do anything else at all, so they're not really a concern right now.

In Christ,
Shane

Nothing amiss with that adage, "to the victors, go the spoils." Hard work and effort is nothing to denegrate, diminish or usurp. AB did the work; the spoils are well deserved. Personally, I love my Fedora/Lamode hat block. (Steve: thank you again, for letting "us" share in the fun of hat shaping.)

Regardless, my comment was intended to be little more than what I perceive as the passing of a time; the days of searching for "the hat." With the advent of this movie, and the ability to identify on a personal level with the actual movie hatters, for my dollar, if I want a "Raider's hat," I will go with AB, the maker.

Of course, there will continue to be a need for niche makers (for example to accomodate my desire for a 6 inch crown), or for those who want a specific style or quality that cannot be effectively mass produced. It seems, however, the search is drawing to an end. As Fedora noted, a factory produced CS Fedora, with a tighter pinch and extended creases would be Raiders. If the factory hat replicates the most difficult of the shapes to emulate, then certainly it should be "darn close" to any TOD or LC lid (with some tweaking). Thus, if you are looking for the "Swiss Army Knife" of the Raider's hat world, CS here I come?

Renderfisk: it seems your commentary - taking the adventure rather than looking for gear- is coming to the fore.

Sincerely,

Robert A.M. Stephens

We did our homework guys.

Which we had to prove! During the first chat I had with the custumer, he didn't make a big deal out of not wanna waste any further time on people who didn't know what they're talking about. So he tested me. Absolutely Gentleman style, but a test nontheless. He sat there with a screen used hero hat in his hands taking measurements and asked what kind of measurements we would use on an Indy Fedora. After everything had been answered to his satisfaction (incl. the question "what ribbon do you use" and the answer "the same that you've got there" ), we continued half an hour of pleasant chit chat.

If not for COW, we would not have been the guys chosen to make the last film hat.

NOTHING to add here!!!

Dibs on factory hat 0002

FORGET it

Regards,

Marc

Which we had to prove! During the first chat I had with the custumer, he didn't make a big deal out of not wanna waste any further time on people who didn't know what they're talking about. So he tested me. Absolutely Gentleman style, but a test nontheless. He sat there with a screen used hero hat in his hands taking measurements and asked what kind of measurements we would use on an Indy Fedora. After everything had been answered to his satisfaction (incl. the question "what ribbon do you use" and the answer "the same that you've got there" ), we continued half an hour of pleasant chit chat.

Yep, and I think he found out he was talking with the right person!! That you nailed the question to the hat specs he had in his hand showed him right off who knew the intimate details of the Indy fedora. He was tickled to death he was talking to folks who knew what he wanted. I think he was a bit stressed out in trying to find the right hat, since the hat was SO important! Fedora.

So the hats will come pre-bashed like CS? No way to get a Raiders bash without doing it yourself?

IndyFan89 wrote:So the hats will come pre-bashed like CS? No way to get a Raiders bash without doing it yourself?

I don't think any of that has been decided yet...

Though I still say the only way to get a good "Raiders bash" is to do it yourself (or have an expert like Steve or Marc do it for you by hand). Getting a form that captures all the unique nuances of the Raiders bash does not seem possible to me. Even getting a form that captures the look of the KotCS hat doesn't seem likely. Pre-formed hats have always looked "fake" to me anyway.

A good open crown blockshape and some simple written instructions is all folks will really need. Half the reason many folks struggle with open crown hats now is that the blockshape isn't exact to begin with.

-GCR

Oh i thought Steve and/or Marc was going to bash them by hand. They're going to be pre-formed? I think GCR is right, you may not be able to get the right look. Although it we ARE talking about Steve and Marc here, SA is they're middle name.

Whatever they do, I'm sure there are no better hands (or heads) to guide the project than Steve and Marc. Rest assured, we won't be getting a Dorfman! As particular as they about their OWN workmanship, I'm sure they will be doubly strict about who they allow to USE their name and what product it will go on. After all, it was THAT reputation for attention to detail that lead them to the real pinnacle of hatmaking as far as most of us are concerned: Indiana Jones himself.

Marc wrote:

Dibs on factory hat 0002

FORGET it

Regards,

Marc

Sorry Marc. I'm a boob. You know now that I think about it, you and Steve are going to need 0001 and 0002 shipped to you in a way that neither of you knows who has 0001. Just like the film hats. As for the first few lids there are gearheads that deserve them more than I for their imput in to these hats. I'll take anything in the first run......0004?

Johnny

Johnny

Well, we must remember it will be a factory hat. But, I have seen different qualities of factory hats. We certainly would not want it to be a bad factory made hat like some out there. But, we must also realize, that a factory hat, is a factory hat. Loving attention is never given to any one hat, due to the mass production involved. For that, you move into the custom market with those reflective retails prices.

Personally, if we can achive the overall quality of a Akubra Federation, I think we will have a winner. But we would want the bows to be accurately made and copy the Raiders and CS bows that are very similar.

I always thought the Akuba company made a good factory hat, and better than some of the other factory offerings. So, we are shooting for something like that. Fedora

Fedora wrote:I always thought the Akuba company made a good factory hat, and better than some of the other factory offerings. So, we are shooting for something like that. Fedora

Does that mean these will be open-crowners, like the Akubras?

-GCR

Does that mean these will be open-crowners, like the Akubras?

Oh yeah, that will be an option. There is a possiblity that the factory can make a already factory creased hat as well, but we shall see. We are aways off from getting to that point, but my fingers are crossed. I would like to have the hat in place for the premier. But there is still a long road ahead in getting the hat developed. And we want the hats in hand before we introduce them, so we actually have them ready to ship when the customer buys one. That is the key here. Otherwise, I would not do it. A fast turnaround is mandatory. That is the advantage of a factory hat as you buy up inventory before you have any sales. Fedora

So these hats will still go through you and Marc, but the difference is that these hats will be premade by the factory, right? I was thinking these would be in 3rd party stores or shops or the like. That's a good idea though - and you can be your own quality control!

In Christ,
Shane

The more I think about this the more exticed I get. I really HOPE this works out.

I hope so too, then I can have an AB to play with and put through #### with me to go along with my normal AB which sits proudly on display with my gear.

So these hats will still go through you and Marc, but the difference is that these hats will be premade by the factory, right?

Another point that isn't set in stone yet. We might (read MIGHT) as well let the factory do the logistics. I can't see neither Steve nor me having a couple of hundred (or thousand) hats in stock and with us running forth and back between or computers and the p.o. would not really gain on the delivery times of our handmade hats. But again, this is yet another thing that we need to look into yet.

Regards,

Marc

Marc wrote:I can't see neither Steve nor me having a couple of hundred (or thousand) hats in stock and with us running forth and back between or computers and the p.o.

Ahhh, good point. I didn't think of that - you'd have so much more to do with the multitudes of orders coming in for the factory hats that you'd be nearly just as busy as before doing little jobs and running business errands. Best to just let the factory take your business off your hands and give you a break, if you know their quality is going to be good.

In Christ,
Shane

This is a great idea, Marc and Steve! Espcially with the demand the new film will bring, this should help cut the demand for your handcrafted hats down even more, as you want.

If you ever need any help in getting this off the ground, please get in touch with me. I would love to get involved with Adventurebilt in some way.

I'll order one as soon as I can, just as long as they don't look like this one. Eek, what did Bernie do that hat?


Johnny

Been out of the Indygear loop for a while (thanks to a 2yr old and 4yr old) and come back back to find that the AB is now truly the "real deal-" the offical IJ4 hat! Congrats Steve & Marc - I knew 2 years ago when I got my AB that if anyone could properly do an IJ4 hat it would be ya'll!
Best of luck starting the factory run!

I'll order one as soon as I can, just as long as they don't look like this one. Eek, what did Bernie do that hat?

I know, but I will wait until later to tell ya. I can assure you, this hat will never appear on Indy's head. The costumer was too picky to allow that. Fedora

I know, but I will wait until later to tell ya. I can assure you, this hat will never appear on Indy's head. The costumer was too picky to allow that.

AHA! I think I know what you're talking about. Just send it to me Bernie and I'll make a brand new one in exchange

Regards,

Marc

Or he may have put one of the extra ribbons I sent him and put it on an old HJ. Apparently they were trying to make the hat look almost worn out from looking at the pic. The mottling on the brim is what might mean it is not an AB. Looks like old mottling to me. And I never had a brim to ever mottle like that, and certainly none of the film hats were mottled on the brim. I will see if I can find out the next time I talk to hm. Fedora

I thought I would toss something out there in regards to liners for the factory AB. I am thinking of using the same type of liner as supplied to the film. Now, this liner is unmarked, no hatters crest at all. So, without divulging the color, do you guys think I should put the plain liners in the new factory hat, or should I have a logo of sorts? I do know, I will not be putting the current liner in the factory hats due to a much wider distribution, and due to the fact that I could legally get into trouble for using the Staff of Ra Headpiece. This never was an issue with my handmade hats, because the market is so small, but when the news breaks in the various media outlets, I expect to sell these hats to many new fans, and other folks that want a hat like Indy wore. And since it will have a much higher visibility compared to the past, I need to cross my t's and dot my i's, if you know what I mean. Any input, will be appreciated. Thanks!, Fedora

Personally I like the look of a crest or logo in a hat, but of course now you have to come up with some sort logo, which can be a pain.
Maybe you could do a logo with a map compass of some sort - maps have always been part of the Indy imagery.
Just an idea...

My advice would be to create a new logo for the factory hats, something simple and perhaps reminiscent of the headpiece in terms of design (in other words, something circular). I like the compass idea, or some other crest or logo in that shape. Or perhaps something like the letters "AB" in some sort of fancy font on a heraldic shield?

I don't think a plain liner, devoid of logo or words would look good at all...it's got to have something on there, in my opinion. Even if it's just the name "Adventurebilt Hats" in gold script or something...

-GCR

Agreed.

K.I.S.S. is always a good plan, so just AdventureBilt hats in a nice type style would work fine.

Less is a good thing when it comes to keeping from falling on the slippery rocks of trademark and copyright problems.

Regards! Michaelson

Hey everybody, if the hats Steve made for the movie had plain white liners, and everybody wants gear to be as SA as possible.....DUH!!

Print the info that makes it readily identifiable from Steve's hand made Fedora on the sweatband. SA and no problem.

It would sure cut back on material costs, wouldn't it, Lee?

Regards! Michaelson

if the hats Steve made for the movie had plain white liners

Nobody said that we used white liners

Regards,

Marc

I believe Lee's operative word was 'if'.

Regards! Michaelson

Oh right. Operative words... 8-[

Regards,

Marc

Yep. They'll get you everytime.

Regard! Michaelson