Club Obi Wan

I don't know about you but in my eyes the LC jacket was shorter than the Raiders and Temple jacket. Actually there is the impression that Temple was longer than Raiders which may or not be true. The fact that Peter was making the Temple jacket 1 inch longer has become standard and in everyone's mind Temple was 1 inch longer. However, now it is said that it was another company that made the Temple jacket so Peter how would he know if they were an inch longer. I don't say that they weren't but I think that one thing adding to this was the fact that the Temple jacket was more close fitting than the Raiders which was a bit loose, and that adds to the length impression, I guess.

PLATON wrote:I don't know about you but in my eyes the LC jacket was shorter than the Raiders and Temple jacket. Actually there is the impression that Temple was longer than Raiders which may or not be true. The fact that Peter was making the Temple jacket 1 inch longer has become standard and in everyone's mind Temple was 1 inch longer. However, now it is said that it was another company that made the Temple jacket so Peter how would he know if they were an inch longer. I don't say that they weren't but I think that one thing adding to this was the fact that the Temple jacket was more close fitting than the Raiders which was a bit loose, and that adds to the length impression, I guess.

I either read somewhere (or got the impression from NH) that there were also left over jackets from Raiders used in "Raiders II".

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure (although I can't seem to find a quote) that _ very recently said something to the effect that no Leather Concessionaire (aka Wested) jackets were used in ToD, and that it was a myth that had been refuted?

I place a great deal of faith in what _'s been able to unearth, but not so much in my memory... Especially seeing as how the evidence seems to have disappeared faster than the ark.

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure (although I can't seem to find a quote) that _ very recently said something to the effect that no Leather Concessionaire (aka Wested) jackets were used in ToD, and that it was a myth that had been refuted?

I place a great deal of faith in what _'s been able to unearth, but not so much in my memory... Especially seeing as how the evidence seems to have disappeared faster than the ark.

Peter has stated several times that he did not make jackets for Burmans for TOD. However, he has been told by people who used to be at Bermans that they used jackets of his on TOD.

One fly in the ointment is that even during the period that Leather Concessionaires was "banned'" from working for Burmans (Something that only happened for about a year) they still were, they supplied as a sub, sub, contractor! i.e. under a different name!

And now that the official photos are out, it seems that even Spielberg, Ford, Nowak, and Lucas seem to agree... With the stills, we seem to have a rare chance to see a clear shot of the jacket in relation to the rest of the body, since most of the older stills were suspect. One thing can be said: The jacket apparently DOESN'T end at the belt line...



I dare you to tell me this jacket is 1-2 inches below the belt... Heck, it might be more than my guesstimate of 3-4 inches!

_ wrote:

While existing Raiders jackets were in fact shipped to Sri Lanka, they were removed from inventory before shooting began. No Leather Concessionaires or Wested jackets were in fact used in ToD. All were Coopers. I have been able to confirm this with Tony Powell and members of his team. According to Mr. Powell, Noel Howard was not a member of the costume team....... were able to confirm via the written contract that Coopers supplied them, along with associated documentation that they were in fact placed into the jacket inventory before shooting began and all other jackets removed. The ToD jacket section is currently being reviewed by members of the costume/wardrobe team from Temple of Doom, including Mr. Powell and his representitives. Informally they are agreeing that the above is what happened, and in many cases they are the ones who provided either first hand or corroberating information as to that fact...

That's really interesting, _. The ToD jacket is something that has been an enigma for so long. I'm very much looking forward to reading the complete jacket history. Incidently, this is what Peter had to say about the ToD jakcet way back in 2003:

Peter wrote:

To answer your question.
1. We supplied some principal jackets for TOD and they were going to use the original Lost Ark jackets for the stunt men, however in the middle of filming either some jackets were damaged or went walkies and replacements had to be found very quickly.
2. I refer to it as a local company but it was possibly the wardrobe dept working on site with the film. However with no proper pattern the design and fit were well off the mark which is why Harrison Ford was not a happy Bunny. Bermans and Nathan could not produce them via us as we were tied up with urgent James Bond 007 jackets and there was no one else to make within the time frame
3. This did not offend me as in the event we were called back in to make the jackets for Last Crusade vindicating the quality of my production.
Hope that clears the air
Cheers
Peter

Finally figured out how to post screenshots online, and to illustrate a point I made earlier about the looong Raiders jacket, take a look at this:



This is from Raiders, in the Idol temple. If you watch this scene, and the exterior shots, you will note that the jacket's pocket flaps begin where his beltline is, and this gives us a very long jacket.

In fact, the jacket in this scene has a length that almost meets the bottom of the sleeves! And you thought the KotC jacket was long!

I personally believe that the best judge of jacket length would be the scenes at Imam's house, since there is no holster or bag for the jacket to get caught up on.



As you can guess, I believe that having the full gear means having the jacket snag on the bag and holster, and hence giving the illusion of a shorter jacket. Perhaps this may be why many of us feel that the jacket is shorter than it may be, and also serve as an explanation as to why the jacket seems to be suddenly, drastically longer in Imam's house?

Yet another example of this long jacket can be seen before Indy and Marion board the ship, as they bid Sallah farewell. I couldn't quite get a screenshot, but for those of you with the movie on DVD, I'm sure you'll notice that Indy's jacket is about the same length as in the two above pictures.

I don't know if this was mention before but when I was measure for the sleeves. I was told to start from the end of the shoulder all the way down to the first knuckle of your thumb. Each of us will have varying arm length base on our height. Then from there you can determine the waist as well. Hopefully from that perspective anyone can get close to a proper fitting jacket to your body type. Whether anyone wants to match the same body proportion as H.F. is a another matter to boot!?

This comparison photo is for my friend Chris King who thinks he nailed the jacket length. Chris, with all due respect, if you like it, then you have nailed it. I like a little longer like the photo on the left.



It's really a matter of taste, since I have posted other photos of the jacket but yet haven't been able to convince some people....so, I 've given up.

However, I post this today, so all voices can be heard (I m sure I represent some of you here). Have a nice day....

Platon

That's certainly an interesting photo but it doesn't convince me that my jacket is too short. In fact, it gives me more encouragement about my jacket being correct. You can't determine the jackets length by looking at the pants belt because the position of his pants varies from scene to scene depending on whether they're riding low or pulled up higher.

However, the one thing which can be used to judge the length is the amount of his MKVII gas mask bag which is visible below the jacket. Looking at the screen grab and my costume display pic, I would say that the jacket length is correct based purely on how much of the bag can be seen in both pics.

Chris

That could be true if we knew for sure that the bag strap length is the same on both bags.

Look at the pics I posted on this page... I'm no longer arguing about the length in relation to the waistline, but to the sleeve length

What about counting the buttons? (if Chris King ownes a Noel Howard shirt and presumably they have same buttons placement)

Look at the pics I posted on this page... I'm no longer arguing about the length in relation to the waistline, but to the sleeve length

What you and I say about length doesn't matter. Chris King's is the right length. Can't you see it in the photos? It's quite obvious.

And don't forget that HF has monkey arms. When he walks they touch the ground. When he drives his car he can put out his cigarette on the street.

(it's amazing what we read in these forums....)

If anyone here thinks HF has long arms (which is not the case) PM me, I have photos to prove it.

PLATON wrote:If anyone here thinks HF has long arms (which is not the case) PM me, I have photos to prove it.

Like this one?



- Mac

Cool photo Mac!
Got any more that you're able to post?

Thanks!

Chris

Chris, that photo, cropped, came from this site:

http://www.jones-jr.com/noel_howard.html

Bonne chance mon amis!

- Mac

Please take into account the "new" photo size restrictions go back to 2004.
viewtopic.php?t=9523 and recall that this announcement viewtopic.php?t=14735 goes back to October 2005. I say we've been pretty lenient so far.

Now, let's get back on topic, and kindly let's keep things civil.

Mac wrote:Chris, that photo, cropped, came from this site:

http://www.jones-jr.com/noel_howard.html

Bonne chance mon amis!

- Mac

Interesting, last year Noel said he didn't want me to take any pictures of the gear...

At what length does a jacket become a coat?

Regards! Michaelson

ANZAC_1915 wrote:

Mac wrote:Chris, that photo, cropped, came from this site:

http://www.jones-jr.com/noel_howard.html

Bonne chance mon amis!

- Mac

Interesting, last year Noel said he didn't want me to take any pictures of the gear...

As a matter of fact he does NOT want to see these pictures online.

Like this one?

Hey Mac, you think you 're smart?

The fact is the length of the standard cut is fine. The 80's fit, although when laid flat has the same length with the standard cut, when worn rides up between 1-2 inches and thus appears shorter.

I have owned both standard and 80s fit and measured them a 100 times. Those who own both can confirm.


regards,
Platon

Michaelson wrote:At what length does a jacket become a coat?

Regards! Michaelson

after two pages of posts about it, I think...

Your sense of absolute certainty always astounds me, my friend. What must it be like to be so gifted...

Dearest friend,

Apart from the above photo which let's say can be an optical illusion, I measured and wore two jackets of size 40 side by side. One was standard cut the other 80s fit. What more is there to do to be convinced?

If anyone can convince me to the contrary, I will immediately order a jacket as per his specs.

I see your point, so I will sign all my above posts with what we shipbrokers use to say.

"All details believed to be correct but without any guarrantee"


and let us let the readers make their judgements.

As you can guess, I believe that having the full gear means having the jacket snag on the bag and holster, and hence giving the illusion of a shorter jacket. Perhaps this may be why many of us feel that the jacket is shorter than it may be, and also serve as an explanation as to why the jacket seems to be suddenly, drastically longer in Imam's house?

That's nice but we have been discussing this previously at another thread with Agent 5 and concluded that the jacket at Imam's house was different.

_ wrote: we are all very much individuals...

(faintly) I'm not!

I've concluded that the jacket wasn't short but a bit longer, you guys conclude what you want . Seriously, I see some folks on these forums with jackets that just look wrong to me because they barely cover their belts, Indy's never gave me that impression.

Doug C

No, wait, I just figured it out:

Michaelson wrote:At what length does a jacket become a coat?

When you have to put on a second one over it.

Part of the problem with the 'conclusions' above is that we *should've* concluded that not all the body shapes are screen-accurate, either. This is like wondering why it takes a different amount of paint to cover different houses, and why they don't all look like the same house when you definitely painted them all the same color...

IJ, sorry but I have to respectfully disagree.. I mean a short guy can wear an Indy jacket that looks too short on him just as well as a tall person. And some do.

Doug C

Also consider the relative measurement of individual's midsection to their hips and chest. Not all 44R's of the same height and inseam are created equal. I once sold a 48R jacket that fit me perfectly and moved with me very well to an individual who had similar proportions - i.e. long torso, short arms and we supposedly wore the same waist pants. Well he went ballistic when he received the jacket, claiming I mislead him. I had sent pics of the actual jacket on me, with my measurements and its measurements, etc...

Well, when he sent me pics to show how I could not have measured the jacket correctly or that I had sent him a different jacket, I just about fell out of my chair laughing... He was in complete denial about the GUT he had hanging over his belt that probably added 6 inches to the length he needed on the front of the jacket. That "Indy" had been hitting the bar appetizers a few times too many...

....and just to be clear, I was not that individual.....

Regards! Michaelson

I reread IJ's post and I'm now confused too about what exactly I was disagreeing with - sorry guys . but hey my point is that regarless of your body shape, you can still wear a jacket with the proper Indy length, even the guy with the huge GUT can get a jacket with enough length to it, where as some just get 'em too short IMHO.

Doug C

True, but asking Peter to add an additional 6 inchs to the front of a jacket so it will hang straight when worn is a little, well, embarassing....

Regards! Michaelson

It baffles me when people here talk about specs and “what is, and what isn’t”. I’ve seen every type of shaped and sized member on this board and yet people still talk about “definitive specs”. If you want to look like Indiana Jones, the first thing you should do is get yourself into “screen accurate” shape. Until you do that, why even bother (unless you’re going for an exact replica of a Ford jacket and are going to put it on a dummy).

I would think that for most people the ultimate goal is to look good in an Indiana Jones jacket. That can be easier said than done for some. The Indiana Jones jacket is not a very forgiving pattern. Complaining about a two inch storm flap would be one thing. Complaining that a regular cut jacket doesn’t clear your gut is something else. People need to be reasonable. If you need to tweak the pattern to look good, so be it. That’s better than lying to your self. Don’t get an unflattering jacket made one way just because some “expert” told you to. Take a look at yourself first and then order accordingly. Cheers

Indy's jacket is so long that for years I thought it was a duster!

Doug C

He uses it as a duster to clean the house... That is why it looks so dirty all the time!

C3

who is whose wingman?

Just to continue the discussion, I've noticed a picture from 'The Archives', in the 'the rare indy pictures' thread which makes it fairly clear that at least one jacket from Raiders was VERY, VERY long.



Compare the length of this jacket to the previous pictures in this thread of Indy in the temple. At least in the opening of Raiders (once he gets into the temple), Indy did have a very long jacket.

Courtesy of the same thread in the Archives, Indy's long jacket makes another return appearance:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:
Courtesy of the same thread in the Archives, Indy's long jacket makes another return appearance:

Wait, the second pic... isn't that from ToD? ET came out in '82, right? Raiders must have been shot in '80-'81? The jacket has all the sleeve wrinkles I'm used to seeing in ToD.

I agree, the second picture is most likely from ToD given the time frame, though the exteriors do look like Imam's house. If that picture is indeed from ToD though, compare the two pictures. Curious, since most folks consider ToD to have an extra long Indy jacket, while Indy's jacket at the temple is the same length, if not longer.

Its kind of hard to tell with the first picture. The jacket is open and it looks like it is hanging out toward Ford's hand. The other side is vary low, but the jacket looks like it is barely over his shoulder and is no where near his neck at the top.

Matt

Castor Dioscuri wrote:

This is EXACTLY how I want my jacket to fit! I'm 6'3, 190 pounds. I thought I was set on a Wested, for the custom size ability, then I pondered a Wings because they're in the states and have the vintage cow, and I can get a Long...still can't decide

citRon wrote:

Castor Dioscuri wrote:

This is EXACTLY how I want my jacket to fit! I'm 6'3, 190 pounds. I thought I was set on a Wested, for the custom size ability, then I pondered a Wings because they're in the states and have the vintage cow, and I can get a Long...still can't decide

Thats what I do with Gibson & Barnes. I just have the sleeves shortened. I've been doing that for years just because I always thought that a longer Indy jacket looked cooler. Of course, if you're a natural tall, you're sh*t out of luck. Cheers

To tie the above Indy IV publicity still with the previous Raiders' jacket shot, I made a quick side by side comparison. This is probably a bit subjective, but I really feel that going from this photo as an example, perhaps at least one Raiders' jacket was alot longer than the Crystal-Skull jacket, which many consider to be the longest in the series...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167 ... 8c9b31.jpg

Food for thought.

That's TOD for sure, just take a look at the hat, no Raiders at all...

Odo wrote:That's TOD for sure, just take a look at the hat, no Raiders at all...

I'd take that bet...

It's from Raider's. The full picture was from the previous page in this thread, which shows that it is of the "Throw me the idol" chasm jump scene.

Who said raiders jacket was long?