Club Obi Wan

Kt Templar... whatever they are I suggest you not to smell them, I'm scared to death about particles of used filters kept in the bag for years and this sort of things... without mentioning that some materials once used a lot are now classified as dangerous or worst... my first MKVII contained a gas mask and I washed the bag as soon as it arrived!

The official title is 'Case, Box Respirator, MK Vll'. It is part of the British Army '37 Pattern Webbing Set. The 'gas mask' has two parts to it - the face mask and the filter box - joined by a hose. The bag itself has two main internal compartments. One holds the box and the other the mask. The hose loops over the top of the divider between the two and is held in place by the flap.

On the alert 'Gas, Gas, Gas', the bag should be worn on the chest (above the ammunition pouches) with the strap tight around the neck. The flap should be facing outwards. On the outside, (left hand as you wear it)there is a small pocket with string coiled in it. You pull out the string, pas it around your waist (diificult if you are wearing the '37 Large Pack) and loop it around the metal spool on the right had side of the bag. Then you iopen the flap and put on the mask. The box stays in the bag, the hose trails up to the mask. Yes, head mobility is restricted by the hose.

There are two other components that came wiith the bag - the Cleaning Kit and the Anti Dimming tin The anti dimming kit is a small tin with a cloth and AD compound in it that attaches to a string in a pouch inside the bag. The contents are smeared on the mask lenses to prevent them (in theory) fogging. The use of the string is an early example of what we now call an 'idiot cord' - it helps retrieve the ADK when you can't see a !*@+ing thing (because your mask has dimmed). The purpose of the cleaning kit is self explanatory, I assume? The other 'flat' pockets hold the spare eyeshields.

Over 5 million of these were made and many were never issued. They are still available in surplus stores in the UK for around £10.

I can't wait for mine to arrive, though I fear I may not have the strength to cut the original straps! 8-[

Very glad that this has been such a succesful post and that some guys have got a good deal..

I talked to Kevin at Endicotts yesterday and he was very pleased, although somewhat bemused at all the interest ( and some of the unusual phone calls he'd had recently!

He's been doing business all over the world.

He's sending me a webbing belt for an opinion now.... I think he may be hooked.

SJ.

That's a good idea! Hey Kevin! Can I have a Harrier Jump Jet for evaluation purposes please?

Alan:
Thanks for the explination and use of everything. Welcome aboard.

A very rare Mark V bag and respirator:


A Mark Vl bag with a repirator:


And a Mark Vll bag with etc.:

Woohoo! Just received my MKVII from Kevin. Man, that was fast shipping... I think it took less than a week! And it looks absolutely fantastic!

[Edited] Took some pics of it:

Dang it! I still haven't gotten mine yet!

Looking good guys, looking good!

Alan;
I forgot to check the other thread and now I've lost it. Do you happen to have a copy of an instruction booklet for the Smallbox Resp. or the Mk III through V versions? Puretha, Baxter, or C1 civil versions would do too. I've looked around and haven't found them anywhere and thought it would be interesting to see what the regulations were.

Regards,
Swindiana

Here's mine I received yesterday




Kevin is really a good man. I hope he will be able to keep on with the COW service
Cheers Kevin

Erri Wan

Got mine too from Kevin!! It's W+G Ltd with some other cool marks on the bag. I've tried to get MK VII bag with this maker for quite some time but the price was always going crazy for a bag with this maker!! Kevin even gave me a web belt!




Is it possible that this bag have more than one owner before, since there are various numbers on the bag? Each numbers for each specific person maybe?

Kind Regards,
Aidil

Maybe those are the numbers of many french fiancées

erri_wan wrote:Here's mine I received yesterday
Kevin is really a good man. I hope he will be able to keep on with the COW service
Cheers Kevin

Erri Wan

Heh, heh, you didn't iron that did you?:)


Aidil,

That one looks like it's got a history, I like!

Kt.

Kt Templar wrote:

erri_wan wrote:Here's mine I received yesterday
Kevin is really a good man. I hope he will be able to keep on with the COW service
Cheers Kevin

Erri Wan

Heh, heh, you didn't iron that did you?:)


Aidil,

That one looks like it's got a history, I like!

Kt.

Yeah I like it too, history numbers of many french fiancées Right erri?

Regards,
Aidil

Yep

Templar the bag has not been ironed

Indiana Aidil wrote: Is it possible that this bag have more than one owner before, since there are various numbers on the bag? Each numbers for each specific person maybe?

Kind Regards,
Aidil

Aidil

Sorry, I was too busy teasing Erri!

Is that a grade 3 bag?

Kt.

Here is a link to British service numbers of WW2;

http://www.airbornerecce.com/dtroop/tables/anumbers.htm

If the 8 digits of Aidil's bag is to be read as one number it is not listed.

However, looking at 23119667 and 22974499 it looks as though the last two digits might be a number to denote something else. If that is the case it would be a bag from Royal Army Service Corps. (The 56 of 23119656 looks like it is made with another stamp aswell I think.)

If only the last didigt should be left out it is either from Royal Engineers or Royal Corps of Signals.

Alan!?



Regards,
Swindiana

Kt Templar wrote:

Indiana Aidil wrote: Is it possible that this bag have more than one owner before, since there are various numbers on the bag? Each numbers for each specific person maybe?

Kind Regards,
Aidil

Aidil

Sorry, I was too busy teasing Erri!

Is that a grade 3 bag?

Kt.

Hrm..I'm not sure what grade it is. I just asked Kevin for an issued bag with some other markings on the bag.

Regards,
Aidil

Indiana Aidil wrote:

Kt Templar wrote:

Indiana Aidil wrote: Is it possible that this bag have more than one owner before, since there are various numbers on the bag? Each numbers for each specific person maybe?

Kind Regards,
Aidil

Aidil

Sorry, I was too busy teasing Erri!

Is that a grade 3 bag?

Kt.

Hrm..I'm not sure what grade it is. I just asked Kevin for an issued bag with some other markings on the bag.

Regards,
Aidil

He probably made up the difference with the belt. Is it good, it's hard to get good belts over here.

I received mine in the mail today. Thanks.

Swindiana wrote:Here is a link to British service numbers of WW2;

http://www.airbornerecce.com/dtroop/tables/anumbers.htm

If the 8 digits of Aidil's bag is to be read as one number it is not listed.

However, looking at 23119667 and 22974499 it looks as though the last two digits might be a number to denote something else. If that is the case it would be a bag from Royal Army Service Corps. (The 56 of 23119656 looks like it is made with another stamp aswell I think.)

If only the last didigt should be left out it is either from Royal Engineers or Royal Corps of Signals.

Alan!?

Swindiana

Swindiana,

I'm not sure. I've not seen service numbers on webbing before. A SN was given on 'signing up' and equipment was issued later and in different places, so the numbers on issue wouldn't be consecutive. I think this would make printing random numbers very time consuming. These were obviously printed with a 'John Bull' which would need to be set up for each inividual SN and, as you say, it appears that the last digits are different, as if the numbers were consecutive. I really don't know.

I think we can relecutantly dismiss the delightful fancy of them being French ladies telephone numbers, as these bags almost certainly never saw action in France being issued after Dunquerque and replaced by the lightweight mask and bag for D-Day.

Sorry, this is in danger becoming a WW2 re-enactors' thread.

Alan

Swindiana wrote:
Alan;
I forgot to check the other thread and now I've lost it. Do you happen to have a copy of an instruction booklet for the Smallbox Resp. or the Mk III through V versions? Puretha, Baxter, or C1 civil versions would do too. I've looked around and haven't found them anywhere and thought it would be interesting to see what the regulations were.

Swindiana

Swindiana,

No, I've never seen instructions for the box respirator. I have seen them for the lightweight, but I don't have them myself. Soldier of Fortune does the Brayley book on web equipment, which covers '37 Pattern webbing but not the respirators themselves.

Alan

Guys

I have been PMed by a well respected member of the forum with a suggestion, that I would like to run by you.

I have mentioned that original MKVll bags in unissued condition are cheap and plentiful in the UK (compared to reproductions or eBay). I have a local source of such bags which is currently selling at £10.

The suggestion from the forum member was that I could sell these to other forum members (presumably through the Classified section). Now, I'm prepared to do this at cost price (£10 plus shipping to wherever you are and insurance if wanted) to help out other forum members who are finding it difficult to obtain a good bag BUT I'd need assurance on the following:
1. I don't want people selling them on at a profit;
2. I don't want the hassle of handling returns and lost items, people saying I haven't sent them, etc;
3. I don't want to take business off the professionals such as Messrs. Endicott and Magnoli.

I might think it reasonable to include a small handling charge to cover packaging expenses, Paypal fees etc. etc. I would also need to cover myself in case my supply dried up or the price to me increased ( I think word is beginning to get out about what these bags are selling for on eBay). Oh, and I'd need your protection from irate WW2 re-enactors....

The cost would still be less than the cheapest commercially available MK Vll bag. What do you think?

Alan

I think it's great Alan, expecially if this will cause the ruin of people selling those bags on ebay for 39 pounds without shipping

GOT MINE! I have a few unissued MKVII and MKVI bags, and let me tell you, these are the best by FAR! Not the greatest pic, and it definitely doesn't do it justice, but these bags are flippin' MINT!!

Kevin also sent me the original packing slip since I was the first order to the U.S.! He's WAY cool!! The packing slip shows a date of 1952 and it looks like there were 50 bags packed in this particular order. Here are pics!

[img][img]http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/2659/mkvii4gd.th.png[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5391/flap9er.th.png[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1888/ticket1xa.th.png[/img][/img]

[img][img]http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9269/ticket29vk.th.png[/img][/img]

Thanks again, Kevin! You guys are AWESOME!

TR

Looks very good Tex another wonderful bag

Quick question for you guys. I already have a MKVII in great usable condition. Check out the pics here:

viewtopic.php?t=16793

As you can see though, I wrote my name in the flap but there are no distingushable marks other than an arrow (from posts i've learned this is an approval stamp) that is almost gone too. I am thinking of ordering another one to show more historical value (the manufacturer, perhaps a service number).

But I am also looking to buy other gear. I'm saving for Aldens and an AB and a whip. $$$$ Would you purchase another bag to satisfy a small urge while the pickins are there or would you be content with the real thing you already have and move to the next piece?

Considering the fine repro bags that are now available, I'd suggest you put your original back in your collection and buy a repro for use. That's what I've done, and never looked back.

Regards! Michaelson

erri_wan wrote:Looks very good Tex another wonderful bag

Yeah, and the order slip is pretty cool also!

I am a sucker. I had put it off when I first saw this post, and then it kept getting updated. Then the pictures started rolling in. I asked and Michaelson answered and yet I caved under my own pressure and ordered one just now. Of course I now have to get another strap. Well, it looks like my "to buy" gear list is getting longer rather than shorter!

Yep. It's a 'sickness' that grabs you by the throat....doesn't it?

I just suggested the repro idea as these old bags are wonderful and true works of art in terms of longevity....that said, though, nothing will break your heart faster than if, no, WHEN you either tear a hole in an original, or the thread starts unravelling. There's no going back, as these ARE 60+ year old military surplus, and they'll eventually fail.

The new bags, on the other hand, are, well, new...and if one fails, no biggie, either fix it or order another one.

Just my thoughts. Either way you go is fine.

Regards! Michaelson

I just ordered one from Kevin too, but it's going to remain unaltered. I hate to sound like a broken record, but I just can't bring myself to cut the strap off a mint piece of 65 year old webbing. I've got perfectly satisfactory repros of both the MkVI and MkVII, and I'm good with that.

I'll probably use the original as another "murse" to tote things around, but the factory installed equipment will remain firmly attached.

Cheers!

Just a little update, I came home and checked my email and realized that Kevin had emailed already! About 4 hours after placing the order! I can't wait to get the bag even though I already have one. I'm glad I ordered a spare! Awesome guy to work with Kevin is! (Just a note, I have heard from some the expression "guy" is derogatory in Britain, being in the states I don't mean it as such)

That makes Kevin A-OK in my book!

I have just received my Mark VII from this nice dealer in UK, less than a week from placing order ..!!! Only one suggestion, it would be great if they don't fold the bag..as I guess the postage would be the same as it won't add any weight and the size should not be a problem...?
Might want one more..one for display and one for fieldtrip!

I have to agree that it would be nice to use the repro and keep the original as is. However, with the current prices, you could always buy two, one for historical value and the other to make into an Indy bag. Michaelson's right, though, that you won't feel as bad when the repro starts to go as you will when the original does. But again, on the flip side, if you're hard on cash and need a bag, it seems more cost effective to get an original at this point. So many choices! I'm thinking an original bag would look good with an equally aged Tapco rifle strap I have...

Shawn wrote:Awesome guy to work with Kevin is! (Just a note, I have heard from some the expression "guy" is derogatory in Britain, being in the states I don't mean it as such)

Don't worry Shawn, it isn't derogatory, someone is pulling your leg. You haven't been watching "V for Vendetta" by any chance? That may have brought the story of Guy Fawkes to your attention.

Kt.

binkmeisterRick wrote:I have to agree that it would be nice to use the repro and keep the original as is. However, with the current prices, you could always buy two, one for historical value and the other to make into an Indy bag. Michaelson's right, though, that you won't feel as bad when the repro starts to go as you will when the original does. But again, on the flip side, if you're hard on cash and need a bag, it seems more cost effective to get an original at this point. So many choices! I'm thinking an original bag would look good with an equally aged Tapco rifle strap I have...

Agreed. AS long as originals can be had for this price, it's a no brainer. It's when they're selling for $65+ on a normal basis that the repro's start looking a LOT better in comparison.

Regards! Michaelson

Here's a pic of a couple of guys who've just received their MKVl bags. You know what it's like - open the packet, try it one and get on the phone right away to tell your mates...

Alan Eardley wrote:Here's a pic of a couple of guys who've just received their MKVll bags. You know what it's like - open the packet, try it one and get on the phone right away to tell your mates...

Nice.

Biggest cell phone pocket I'VE seen to date.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote: I just suggested the repro idea as these old bags are wonderful and true works of art in terms of longevity....that said, though, nothing will break your heart faster than if, no, WHEN you either tear a hole in an original, or the thread starts unravelling. There's no going back, as these ARE 60+ year old military surplus, and they'll eventually fail.

Out of curiosity, could any of the old timers here tell me how long the original MKVI and MKVII bags can be expected to last before they start falling apart when worn daily? I just got my first repro bags but have been using other sorts of shoulder bags for years and I've found most modern bags start breaking down rapidly after 2 years of daily wear. Thanks!

Antone

Depends on how they're used. I was using my first one in video production work, and it lasted about 2 years before it developed a hole...and when THAT happened, the hole grew expedentually by the day, and it had to be retired within a week of the failure.

Some folks have used theirs for years.....others for less time than I have. It also depends on how much dry rot may be in the seams and threads of the seams. Remember, you're talking about 60+ year old military surplus that's been in storage. It's not going to be in the best of shape simply due to the age....so that's to be factored into the equation.

Regards! Michaelson

After World War 2 tens of thousands of these box respirator cases (Mk Vl and Vll) were used by workmen (in the days when Britain had a number of heavy industries such as coal mining, ship building and steel making) to take their lunch ('snapping') to work. So they are still called 'snapping bags' by many. Many a bag faced a 5 mile trip underground to the coalface or sat in the heat and dirt of a steel foundry all day. They lasted until those industries shut down.

I used one myself (which I still have - a W&G 1942) every day from 1967 to 1974. I remember buying it in unissued condition (just like the ones I buy now) at the local surplus store. I think I paid two shillings and sixpence (less than 20 cents) for it, which is why I hate to see guys making a big profit on them now.

I still use it at week-ends to carry my waterproofs and tea flask to football games. It's still going strong (although the string and spool came off a long time ago) and I would expect it to last at least another ten years. That would be about 50 years in use. Does that answer your question?

One week from order and I have my 2nd MKVII!!!!!!

Awesome bag and price. Kevin is great.

Pic to come.

Just received my Mark VII bag from Endicotts Surplus. Very nice looks to be in mint condition. Dated H & S 1942. Check the links for pictures.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/ ... ous001.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/ ... ous002.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a214/ ... ous003.jpg

Thanks Kevin for your help, and also thanks to Saxaphone Jones for sharing the information.

Is that a pink strap or the camera causing the discoloration?

ITG,

That's the camera flash or just my bad picture taking .
After you mentioned it I noticed what you mean about the strap.
The strap is a lighter khaki green than the bag but not with a pinkish hue my poor photography would indicate.

Oh, no! His site says he's run out of "easily saleable" (I assume unissued?) bags.

Nice ones guys... KT are you going to distress yours?

Anyone knows if Kevin still has bags in stock?