New (old) Herbert Johnson (Image Heavy)

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:14 pm

Fedoraman wrote:
jpenman wrote:

I would pop over to pagey how to bash a hat.
http://eaglesnest.goblinjournals.com/pagey.html

Just take his tutorial with a grain of salt as his "final" pic has been edited to give the desired look

And why do you say that?
_________________

Someone told Pagey about this post, and he while he does not post here anymore, he sent this to me, along with a couple of pics of the last hat he bought from me.

I hear that somebody on COW thinks my tutorial can't be believed and that I faked my hat pictures using photoshop. I guess that's a mighty compliment as well as a very strange accusation!!
My Pagey hat has turned out to be the best hat I've owned - the colour, texture, stiffener, ribbon..are all perfect and it's holding up very well despite daily wear.
It has the best side profile of any hat I've had as well.

And here is one of the pics he sent.

Regards, an no offense intened here, to anyone. Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:24 pm

It's also possible that the felt didn't retain the block shape well, especially in the back. I wouldn't discount that block shape yet...

Exactly!!! This is what you can run into when the felt does not retain the block shape, due to quality issues, or techniques used in blocking. You can take one of my hats, wear it for awhile, and it will appear to have more of dome than it originally did. So many factors are involved. Like, this one here. If you take the original block used by HJ, whatever it was, and you block two hats on the same block. One hat you use a stiffer felt, and on the other one, you use a soft, pliable felt(like the Raiders fedora), you would swear by the looks of the identically styled hats, that they came from different block shapes. I can prove this, and so can Marc Kitter. We discovered this years ago. So, and here is the technical part. If the felt that I use was not exactly like the original felt, in its creasing characteristics, what you would have to do is to modify the original block shape to yield an accurate looking Raiders fedora, using the felt that you were gonna use to make your replicas. Ooops, I just gave away a big secret!! No matter. But this is factual info, and info that we gleaned from experimenting with block shapes. There is more to this than meets the eye, and only through hands on experience in making hats, do you discover it. Fedora

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:50 pm

Look at the light on his face ( pagey posted by Fedoraman) and the light on the hat. It looks to me that it's coming from different places? or am I seeing things?

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:57 pm

He looks like ED NORTON in that picture.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:33 pm

I'm in awe at how much we still see him post posthumously.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:51 pm

Never saw much of 'im prethumously, either.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:16 pm

I'm in awe at how much we still see him post posthumously.

My fault, and probably to his chagrin as well. He just makes my hats look so good!!!!!!!!!!! Heck, my avatar belongs to him!! That fellow sure can style an Indy fedora. I bet he could even make an Optimo look good.

A joke, scouts honor.

Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:03 pm

You know, I have a block that resembles the new HJ block shape, although I use it to create vintage tear drop, Bogey-like fedoras. Here it is from the sides. I can't get a decent Indy hat from it though.

Here is what I came up with, and am currently using, and it seems to yield a good final look, at least with the felt I am using.

Fedora

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:02 am

The block shows the back and front taper and the hat doesn't. Or is that what you meant about the different felts blocking out different? Also, what is that blocks number. I've seen the #51 and 52 blocks and that one looks similar.

fedoralover

VP · Post by VP » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:43 am

jpenman wrote:Look at the light on his face ( pagey posted by Fedoraman) and the light on the hat. It looks to me that it's coming from different places? or am I seeing things?

Maybe the room had two lamps?

raindog · Post by **raindog** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:07 am

Looks genuine to me. Looks like he had a window with daylight on the left and a lamp on the right. The different hues to the two lights appear the same on his shirt as the hat.

Jeff.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:42 am

The block shows the back and front taper and the hat doesn't.

Oh, the block pictured is not the block the hat was blocked on. I was just showing a front and back tapered block, which is a #51.(it reminded me of the HJ from the side. regards Fedora

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:32 pm

I wasn't talking about the new pics of page but the one fedoraman posted of Pagey. Like I said I'm not sure but in that old pic the lighting is weird and the hat seem to be floatting not resting on his head.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:02 pm

I'd still like to know how do you know or why do you think that?

raindog · Post by **raindog** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:57 am

I know Jpenman, that's the pic I was referring to . Have a look at the left hand light (very white daylight reflecting on his white shirt) and the right hand light (very lampish and yellowy) then look at the hat. It shows the same hue difference, albeit less noticeable due to the dark colour of the hat.
It'd be hard to fake that, and why would he bother unless he didn't have an AB that looked great? He has one, and the pic looks real to me

Jeff.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:14 am

raindog wrote:I know Jpenman, that's the pic I was referring to . Have a look at the left hand light (very white daylight reflecting on his white shirt) and the right hand light (very lampish and yellowy) then look at the hat. It shows the same hue difference, albeit less noticeable due to the dark colour of the hat.
It'd be hard to fake that, and why would he bother unless he didn't have an AB that looked great? He has one, and the pic looks real to me
Jeff.

Wow, how did my post get way down there? I thought I posted after Fedoraman's last one...

Anyway, I agree with Raindog's conclusion on the lighting.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:22 am

Fedora, is that an open crown AB? I think the back corner of the bow sticks up too high, not as high as the HJ, But the Raiders bow only sticks up about a 1/16, or a little more. Certainly less than an 1/8. I'd guess yours is about 3/16 high. ...................................................................

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:48 am

raindog, I'm noy sure what I think. looking at that one pic( that fedoraman posted) it just looks a little funny to me. something about how it kinda floats ( not sits on his head and it seem wider than his head) that buggs me thats all(and something about the lighting looks off to me aswell . I like pagey and he can bash the #### out of any hat ( and I thankfull that he put together on how to bash a hat). Can I not question something?

VP · Post by VP » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:15 am

He just wears his hat higher.

raindog · Post by **raindog** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:35 pm

Hi Jpenman,
Of course you can question something my friend

I'll defend your right to question anything to the last drop of red juice in my body!

But I also like to answer questions as well as I can. You might be right, but I might be right too.
It does look like it's floating I agree. It's probably an optical illusion...Or maybe the AB is so fantastically dense that it has it's own gravity field

I might raid a bank at some point to get one of these....

Jeff.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:59 pm

Fedora, is that an open crown AB? I think the back corner of the bow sticks up too high, not as high as the HJ, But the Raiders bow only sticks up about a 1/16, or a little more. Certainly less than an 1/8. I'd guess yours is about 3/16 high.

Thanks!! You are correct.

Now, I wonder if I ever got any of the bows right, on the back end of the bow.

I guarantee, the one I will finish today will get this proper spacing. Good eye for detail there 3M$!! Regards, Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:07 pm

I just looked at the back bow again,(your pic of the indy bow) and it looks to be at least an eighth an inch to me, but less than what mine is. 1/16th seems to my eye to be too little. Split the difference at 3/32nds?

(halfway between 1/16th and 1/8th) I may have to eyeball it though on the new hats, as my rulers on read down to 1/16th inch increments. I think though, just bringing it up a hair and a half will replicate that ribbon offset. (non Indy fans would think we were both nuts even discussing this sort of stuff.)

I am just embarrassed as heck that I missed this important detail. Why hasn't someone told me before!!!!!!!!!!!

Marc, where are ya at when I need ya??

Thanks guys. Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:40 pm

I just opened up the boxed up hat that I made yesterday to see how if I was doing all the bows the same offset. Here is what it looks like.

Think I need to drop it down-more? Input always welcomed. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:37 pm

If you can freeze and zoom in on the steamship shot when Marion pulls off his hat, it looks like the height is only 1/16, maybe 3/32. In the fight scene there, you are looking down at the top edges of the folded ribbon, which seems like height, but is really just thickness. And as always, the dvd grabs compress the image sideways making everything look taller. I'm really glad you are taking action on this Fedora-

I could e-mail PB, HJ, Miller, everyday for a decade, and they'd never act! I guess you really can't see clearly in this grab, you have to view it at home.

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:00 pm

Hello thread, you've sure gone off on one in my absence...

Just a small update on my attempts to shape my hideously ugly hat...

http://firm.fussake.com/gallery/Indy-Hat?page=2

One of these days I WILL get some decent photos, in the meantime, please feel free to cast your critical eyes over the above.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:27 pm

My advice: Send it to Fedora (AKA "Steve Delk"). He will make your hat look BEAUTIFUL! :junior: -IJ

Antone · Post by **Antone** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:42 pm

Dekker, your bash has made a world of improvement to the look of your hat; the side picture especially looks far better than before. Seeing this hat with a better bash and comparing it to the previous pics really makes me realize what a poor bashing job those guys did before

Personally if it was mine I would make the center dent a little bit deeper to give it better camel humps, then make the front pinch a little deeper to bring the crease just below the crown back a little further in the sides (see Pagey's profile pic above). Those two things together might make it look a little less tapered from the front I'd guess; then again perhaps it's just the camera angle...

In any case, I think it looks pretty darn good as is. Well done, you have vastly improved upon the original bash!

Antone

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:55 pm

Looking Good

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:40 am

Indykid89 wrote:nice hat Dekker!!... BTW where did you get your airsoft gun>?

Picked it up from http://www.gunsandtackle.com/. Very fast delivery and generally a class act.

(No, I don't work for them

)

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:01 am

Dekker wrote:
Indykid89 wrote:nice hat Dekker!!... BTW where did you get your airsoft gun>?
Picked it up from http://www.gunsandtackle.com/. Very fast delivery and generally a class act.

(No, I don't work for them )

The "S&W Police Special" is not too bad

..except for the price

Sorry for the little off-topic dek, your doing a good shapework with that hat, i believe in few time it will look better and better

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:52 am

Well well. Seems like the back taper COULD be "healed" with a proper back crease! Now if only the side to side taper could be removed with deaper creases on the sides... but this is where I fear that it won't do.

I'd like to see one of these new HJ first hand though.

Regards,

Marc

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:13 am

Marc wrote:Well well. Seems like the back taper COULD be "healed" with a proper back crease! Now if only the side to side taper could be removed with deaper creases on the sides... but this is where I fear that it won't do.

I made some minor changes last night to deepen the crown dent and it did seem to take some taper out of the sides. However, if truth be told, I can live with taper. TOD was the first Indy film I saw in the cinema and still holds a special place in my heart so I'd say there's nothing 'un-Indy' about a little taper!

On a related note, where can I get a cheap Indy-style shirt to rip one of the arms off and slash the back?

The "S&W Police Special" is not too bad

Agh, thanks Erri, I guess I missed that one...

certainly the handle is closer. Ah well, I'll add it to the list of future improvements...

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:44 pm

Well now.... one of the kind fellows who hosts my pictures pointed me back here, saying he'd had access requests for my pictures (the links are broken due to some rehosting) I'll make an effort to fix the links and pop back in to say hello to some familiar faces

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:56 pm

Aeris_Canon wrote:Hey, look at all these theories on the HJ, etc. Particularly fond of the comments where Pagey is to have supposedly Photoshopped his hats. Is that really what you guys think people do when showing their hats?

"My gosh... it's not like the others have said it would be..there's no way that hat can be real. Photoshopped!"

yes the photoshopped theory is the best and should be suggested for storage into the archives

Hey Aeris, nice avatar! Have I missed any recent productions of yours? Any adventurous new set of pictures or perhaps video?

New (old) Herbert Johnson (Image Heavy)

hat

How come???

Re: hat

indy

hat