Club Obi Wan

Indiana Strones wrote:What I meant is that in the article I read:

The hero jacket resides in George Lucas’ office at Skywalker Ranch

So, there are two hero jackets, or someone is wrong here. Just curious to know where's the truth.

I have seen pictures of George lucas's office, I did not see any leather jacket there;)

But then again this was several years ago he might have a jacket in there now, but the raiders hero jacket is in private hands.

The powers that be in this forum have a duty to call George Lucas and ask. This board is the best organized indy films fan club ever anywhere in the world. George Lucas has a moral responsibility and debt to answer questions asked by this community. We are the core of the hardcore fans.

If you can't do it, give me his phone number and I will call him.

Ok I will call George tomorrow.

So, there are two hero jackets, or someone is wrong here. Just curious to know where's the truth.

If you watch closely you can see there are at least two different jackets worn in the film which would make at least two hero jackets.

agent5 wrote:

So, there are two hero jackets, or someone is wrong here. Just curious to know where's the truth.

If you watch closely you can see there are at least two different jackets worn in the film which would make at least two hero jackets.

exactly, there was also more than one hero hat. One is in possesion of DESI and the other Is probably at the Ranch, but not in lucas's office, he has a TOD hat in his office,

agent5 wrote:

So, there are two hero jackets, or someone is wrong here. Just curious to know where's the truth.

If you watch closely you can see there are at least two different jackets worn in the film which would make at least two hero jackets.

Yes, of course they are both hero jackets, but I with "hero jacket" I was referring to the jacket of the so-called Order #1 from Leather Concess. The other one comes from one of the following orders, I think.

WHo says that? it might have been the same order.

"Individuals who would know the whereabouts of the original Raiders of the Lost Ark hero jacket have told me directly that the original hero jacket has been in Tony's possession."

Then why didn't he copy it?! Please help me understand, as I just don't get it Why do the jackets *I* see on *MY* screen not have a matching sleeve / yoke seam and this jacket does (among other details that look different on *MY* screen)?

No offence, I just don't understand! If Tony has the once in a lifetime if ever opportunity to get ALL the details put together into a 100% replica, why didn't he do it? Or was it in fact a stunt jacket rather then the hero jacket? Or a production jacket or pre-, post-, in the middle of production jacket. With all these original screen used Raiders jackets floating around here lately, why has nobody made a dead on accurate replica so far?

Are we asking too much? Is it something that craftmen just don't care for?

I feel REALLY really confused and also kinda disillusionated. I had kinda hoped to end a loooooong quest and as for me the search continues.

Regards,

Marc

Marc wrote:I feel REALLY really confused and also kinda disillusionated. I had kinda hoped to end a loooooong quest and as for me the search continues.

Regards,

Marc

Well Put my friend I agree Hundred procent with you here.
Really confused here too!

_ wrote:

junior wrote:Not what I expected. To be fair, the pics of this new jacket are not the best for one to be able to see how raiders-like this offering actually is. From what I see, it looks like a well made leather jacket, but...

Remember when that first Todd's custom was posted on COW? Of course you do. Now that was a Raiders jacket. Again, until we get some better pics of this new TN jacket, I'm going to have to say that this is not what I expected.

But you know what? If the buyer likes it, nothing else matters.

This post made me bust out laughing, JR. The reason is that I was just thinking about a post you made suggesting that "somebody wants an exact replica of the Raider's hero made" or some such thing. I responded with what I believed to be true at the time - that nobody but us chickens out here think about that stuff.

This week I have had some weird conversations, but I feel obligated to tell you that the little voice in my head said that "Holy poop! Junior may have been right!" Ok, I did not really think "poop"... You get my drift...

There are confidences to be kept, but...

Maybe I can just say, "Individuals who would know the whereabouts of the original Raiders of the Lost Ark hero jacket have told me directly that the original hero jacket has been in Tony's possession." When I talked to Tony yesterday, I asked the question both directly and indirectly. He is a man who does not betray a confidence, and I understand this. The response both times was his booming and contagious laugh, followed with, "Todd, you have to have one of these %%%%ing jackets, man!"

I see what you mean. Back at the bottom of page 4 of this thread I said...

junior wrote:Thanks _. Looking forward to the details.

"That's how he got the gig" - I guess that means that either a) someone in the IJ universe wanted the Raiders jacket to be duplicated and made available to the upper class (haha), or b) someone who somehow attained a hero jacket was willing to do the same thing.

Either way, can't wait to learn about it.

junior

When I misunderstood what you were saying, someone corrected me that you were referring to how TN got the CS job, not how TN landed the gig to reproduce the Raiders Hero jacket. But now it seems, as you said, that I may have actually said the right thing when I thought you were referring to how he got the Raiders gig.

Maybe Tony can post some pics on his website showcasing the jacket with 5 or 6 close-up pics of different areas of the jacket and with a few of someone wearing it. I know he is a busy man, but it may help him sell some of these things.

Lastly, agent 5 reitterated that there were two hero jackets used in Raiders. Maybe the one TN used had the sleeve seam meeting the yoke seam - if that ends up being how the TN jacket was made for #001.

Gee whiz Beav, this brings back distant memories of the old back and forth involving the "top back panel wars".

Thanks for the post _,
junior

I'm more puzzled at your reactions. All I've seen to date, and I just scrolled through all 9 pages of this thread, are the muddy non-descript camera phone photos of 001, and you're making final judgements on the product.

I'm ESPECIALLY suprised at YOU, Marc. If anyone should be in Tony's corner, it's you...especially after all the hammering you got from this community when YOU got into the Indy fedora business, and all we saw from you were questionable, muddy photos. It wasn't until folks started getting your hats and could examine them and 'dissect' them as the stitch nazi's tend to do around here ( ;-) ) did they suddenly sit up and take notice that you WERE on target.

I'm not siding with anyone on this....but for Pete's sake (who ever Pete is), let's get more data before jumping off cliffs.

I'll say no more, other than that I'm more disappointed in the reactions of long time members lately than what I've 'kinda' seen in the photos so far.

Regards! Michaelson

I think with some of the high claims made on this jacket it is not more than normal to expect such reactions.

Dutch_jones wrote:I think with some of the high claims made on this jacket it is not more than normal to expect such reactions.

But not based on poor pictures. It's like criticizing how poor a paint job looks on a Ferrari when all you see are blurry pics in poor lighting.

binkmeisterRick wrote:

Dutch_jones wrote:I think with some of the high claims made on this jacket it is not more than normal to expect such reactions.

But not based on poor pictures. It's like criticizing how poor a paint job looks on a Ferrari when all you see are blurry pics in poor lighting.

We'll see once Higher quality pictures arrive

That's the point. ;-)

_ wrote:Gents - Depends on what you mean by Hero.

There is a Hero jacket that was worn only by Ford and was the original jacket Peter made and that was delivered to Deb.

Ford wore other jackets as well - a number of them from the second order in shots where the Hero jacket was not used to insure it was not destroyed. The rational goes beyong what we discuss and value here - they need to preserve that jacket for any needed close-ups or for filler shots that might need to be taken post production. It's not a "drop-dead" thing, but they try to do this.

But, techincally you can call these other jackets "heros" as well. The jacket Ford wore on closed sets and the majority of time throughout the movie is the first jacket made and what I call "The Hero".

Well according to what you've been saying anything worn by Ford is hero in IJ.

That would probably make a lot of folks happier than anything posted to date.

If the jacket in question is the first jacket, made specificially FOR Ford by Peter, handed directly to Deb, then worn ONLY by Ford in closed set shots isn't 'the' original hero jacket, then we'll NEVER come to a consensis....as what YOU think to be 'the hero jacket' from a particular scene may not be necessarily the hero jacket to ME, as I think it's one from another scene.

If we call every jacket worn by Ford to be a 'hero jacket' we all win.

Regards! Michaelson

That sounds as reasonable a definition as any. Actually it sounds the most reasonable - to me! That all jackets worn by Ford are "hero" jackets that is.

Here are some more pictures. I hope they are better than the last batch.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3475.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3476.jpg

thanks for that.but they are two of the same picture.

we need of the back as well.strap detail.pleat.and the like.


the jacket looks great.I would love one.

the thing that really jumps out to me is how wide the stormflap looks.it looks like it is 1.75'' wide and not standard 1.5'' wide like wested does them.


Holt

I still don't get it which jacket was copied?

If this jacket is really THAT accurate ( meaning copied from hero jacket)

Why did wested have to change their pattern to be more accurate over the years due to fan involvement? this looks just like an older LC/wested jacket !


Slydini nice pictures, do you have any of the back of the jacket?

I'm really confused.
First it was hinted that this was the Martin Grace stunt jacket. Now it's hinted that it's a copy of THE actual hero jacket.
Man, I wish Tony could free up some time to clear this up.

I don't understand why the cargo pocket is so far away from the storm flap seam on this new jacket. Ford's Hero jacket wasn't like that from what I can see. Hmmm.

Chris

the pic of the TN jacket shows that the pocket is not as tall as it is in raiders.

I don't know the pocket on tn jacket looks different much more LC rounded.

lol.yeah you are allready walking to the left,but how far has that gotten you?

I thought one of them was a Leather Concessionaries jacket which was not used???
So now it's THE Hero jacket and Martin Grace's stunt jacket that was made available to Tony?

_ wrote: No hinting - Both jackets were made availabe.

The pocket is balanced - this is a jacket to be worn and functional. The original was not made correctly. I'm sure he will offer a "defective/original" version for anybody who wants it...

_ wrote:

Chris_King wrote:I'm really confused.
First it was hinted that this was the Martin Grace stunt jacket. Now it's hinted that it's a copy of THE actual hero jacket.
Man, I wish Tony could free up some time to clear this up.

I don't understand why the cargo pocket is so far away from the storm flap seam on this new jacket. Ford's Hero jacket wasn't like that from what I can see. Hmmm.

Chris

No hinting - Both jackets were made availabe.

The pocket is balanced - this is a jacket to be worn and functional. The original was not made correctly. I'm sure he will offer a "defective/original" version for anybody who wants it...

That makes absolutely no sense at all, why copy a hero jacket from raiders and improve it? thats just silly, we don't want that, we want a SA copy he should know that by all the jacket replicas of the CS he made?

With all due respect, nothing was mentioned about this jacket being made "more functional" until your post so you can't blame all of us for questioning the pocket placement when it clearly doesn't match up with the "Hero" jacket which we all thought this was going to be an exact copy of.

I'd just like to know what else has been changed. Did he line up the sleeve / yoke seam to make it more "functional" too? We've got pics of Ford's hero jacket which doesn't have those seams lined up.

Chris

_ wrote:

Indiana Holt wrote:lol.yeah you are allready walking to the left,but how far has that gotten you?

LOL! I feel like I'm telling people that the sky is blue, but they keep looking at a squirrel...

Hey i've found this pic of cassidy's old wested jacket from 2000 the pocket bottom looks identical to the TN jacket.



yet it doesn't in raiders.

What is up with that leather??? Looks like dinosaurhide to me!! Admitedly, I've never seen a Raiders jacket in person - but that sure doesn't look like how I've always seen Indy's jacket on screen.

this is martin grace above right?

So the bottom line here is this:

Tony will of course make the jacket however anyone wants it to be. It is a CUSTOM made jacket after all. And I agree with _ that he'll put the stupid pockets wherever you ask for them to be. Same thing with the yoke/sleeve deal. Just because this first jacket isn't exactly what we all want/expect doesn't mean Tony won't do what's requested on the next few.

My question has remained the same all along, what justifies the cost? I don't mean what reason does Tony have to charge the amount he's charging, I mean what justifies me purchasing it over other options? It may be well-made, but the only reason I see to pay this much (for someone like myself who shouldn't spend 1K on a jacket) is because it is just so durable that it will last forever. And most likely it will based on Tony's previous work. I think this is the million dollar, or in this case, thousand dollar question..

indyrocks wrote: My question has remained the same all along, what justifies the cost?

Dinosaurhide.

I like how TN is making this jacket more functional and the way that it would have been made by a jacket company back in the early 30's if this were real character and not a fictional one. Can't wait to get some better shots of the TN Raaiders jacket.

I recall some close-ups we got to see from a Todd's custom that really oozed Raiders. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/ ... ket020.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/ ... ket021.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v314/ ... ket022.jpg

Even though he didn't have a hero jacket in hand, I think it safe to say that this is a very good rendition of the Raiders jacket. Call it a very well made "as you see it on screen" jacket that doesn't have a few of the more functional adjustments that TN incorporated into his offering. To me, if I take the Todd's and center the pockets, fix the split straps and widen the side hand warmer pocket openings, it would be hard to beat.

junior

Okay. So what we need now is an SA freak to step up and order a TN Raiders with all the details of the original jacket as they are, imperfections and all. Then put some pictures up in this thread. I'd do it, but I don't have the dough.

whiskyman wrote:What is up with that leather??? Looks like dinosaurhide to me!! Admitedly, I've never seen a Raiders jacket in person - but that sure doesn't look like how I've always seen Indy's jacket on screen.

totally agree. I saw Tony's "hero" or whatever jacket and the hide didn't seem to be that rough when I viewed it, although that was some time ago.....

Satipo wrote:Okay. So what we need now is an SA freak to step up and order a TN Raiders with all the details of the original jacket as they are, imperfections and all. Then put some pictures up in this thread. I'd do it, but I don't have the dough.

Heheh, I would do it too, but like you, I don't have the money

I wouldn't buy it if I did have the money. The pics of that Todd's custom however have piqued my interest... ;-)

indyrocks wrote:

My question has remained the same all along, what justifies the cost?

Strones replied:

Dinosaurhide.

AWESOME!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

_,
Man, take a break. I have no vested interest in any of the jackets, barring having a pretty durable one at a reasonable price that looks fairly Indy ( currently, that's one of the older Wested "flying squirrel" types that I picked up used ). What I can say is: You can't win/justify/reason or otherwise come out on top on this one. It's like talking to moon-landing conspiracy theorists or someone who believes the world is flat.
I have no reason to beleive anything you write, but more importantly, I have no reason to disbelieve it. Everything seems logical a+b=c...etc... But you can't explain that to someone who doesn't know the alphabet.
I have an appreciation for what you and others connected with this site ( Keppler, Michaelson, et al...) who have made this hobby much easier for me ( heck! maybe even taken some of the fun out of it by revealing too readily the answers ). It seems many take the legwork with a grain of salt because they have all the answers right up there on the screen, when this is simply an unreasonable outlook.
I'm not saying the detractors are wrong ( just look at the recent jacket revelations you were such an insturmental part in ), because they haven't seen the jacket, and photographic evidence is hard to refute. You have the benifit of having seen the jackets, interacted with the people who create. Not to elevate the hobby or sully Judeo-Christian tenet, but imagine trying to tell some one you just spoke with a BURNING BUSH. YOU know it's true, but you've got a lot of convincing to do and it doesn't look promising. Sooooooo...Have a Jameson's.

Great looking jacket. I would love to see some more detailed pics.

-Nebraska

can anyone post these elstree shots or caps of it?

OK but which did Mg actually do?
I mean in which we could see this jacket TN copied?

To be honest, I do not want to provide any lists, requests or specifications to Tony Nowak because if he's had THE "hero" jacket in hand, I would hope that he can replicate it exactly.

Maybe I should give it a go and see what comes out of it. I should not have to give him any measurements of any kind - just a simple "Please make me a jacket that exactly matches every nuance you saw on the real thing".

Chris

Ladies and gentleman, please give a round of applause to our brave volunteer!

I am a screen nazi,but I dont take any offence of what people might think of it,.I'm just having fun

To me, I don’t think that Tony got the right hide. That stuff looks like what Avirex used to make the “vintage” A-2’s out of in the 90’s. It’s a really “spongy” lambskin. I’ve never really owned one of those jackets, so maybe the drape will improve with wear. It just doesn’t seem right to me for Raiders (too much grain). On the other hand, the TODD’s posted looks great. I don’t think that he has that calfskin available anymore though.

Actually, for those who practice the 'black art' of SA study, I tip my fedora. If it weren't for you folks, we'd still be wearing A-2 jackets! ;-)

I use the term 'stitch nazi's' like I do 'gearhead'. It's just a describer. Not a 'curse'. ;-)

Regards! Michaelson

Some more pics:
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3477.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3478.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3479.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn28 ... G_3481.jpg

Pockets look very different in shape.

Thanks for the photos slydini, now you just have to take a photo of you wearing that jacket ;-)